Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

[GCK]

Stat watching only a player that was drafted for his physicality offers absolutely no contribution to this discussion.


Right... This board makes no sense sometimes. He is a powerforward not a play making winger. Next post after yours I see 'he has a long way to go but it's a start'. Guys on pace for 50+ goals while being a heavy player.

Bert,

I’ve watched a lot of Boucher. My take is he will be a useful NHL player. I am just tempering the expectations. Pinelli, Beck and Rohrer have been the team’s best forwards. Boucher is developing and it will take some time. I don’t think he ever lives up to his draft position though.

 

[GCK]

You should watch him more than one game then. Elite shot and hockey sense. Just playing in the league in a top 9 role at his age is impressive especially at center. No need to go this route... Tearing down Sillinger isn't going to make Boucher any better. Sillinger should have been picked higher than he went. The sens missed but it doesn't mean Boucher can't be good too.


The sens don't need Chychrun on any level. They don't have money for him. He also plays a position of strength. I'd be furious if they traded a cost controlled player like Sillinger for him.

I’m not tearing down Sillinger to make me feel better about Boucher. I understand it was just 1 game but Sillinger was lazy and disinterested which is shocking for a player that young. I’ll watch a couple more Blue Jackets games.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I’m not tearing down Sillinger to make me feel better about Boucher. I understand it was just 1 game but Sillinger was lazy and disinterested which is shocking for a player that young. I’ll watch a couple more Blue Jackets games.

I think a lot of the grief over Sillinger was based in where we were at last year. Desperate for immediate help and offensive depth.

I don't often seek out CLB games, I've watched parts of 2 games this year by chance and can remember really tuning into maybe 4-5 full games of theirs last year... that said:

As with many young players, I found Sillinger to be very inconsistent and very "junior style". It's something I worry a lot about with young players who are put in the NHL before they are fully refined, especially a later pick (i.e. not a Jack Hughes). Cole Caufield worried me a bit with this during his playoff run, and still has elements of junior play, but he has shown a great ability to learn from his mistakes, learn from his struggles, learn from getting put on his ass, and that has made me think he can be a guy who eliminates all non-physical weaknesses from his game.

With Sillinger, I am a little less certain... although I have watched a whole lot more of Caufield than Sillinger, so that's not necessarily a slight on him. But Sillinger reminds me a bit of a young Patrick Eaves in the sense that I worry that a bit part of his success is that he throws himself into positions where he is both a) a danger to score and b) in danger of getting absolutely blown up. We've seen him get blown up a few times and fortunately he's avoided any kind of serious injury.

What I like a lot about Sillinger:
- He plays with very good pace
- He has a deceptive shot and can score on unscreened shots from mid-range
- He has good hand-eye and can score dirty goals when he gains position in front of the net, either by tipping a shot from the point or redirecting a puck that comes to him in front of the crease
- He has shown some good defensive instincts
- He is willing to be gritty and is pretty strong for a young kid

Does that translate to an impact player, or someone who is better than a good middle 6er? Hard to tell. I do think he will have a really nice career if he can remain healthy... but, as we gain more and more distance from a very "mystery box"-esque 2021 draft, I think there will be plenty of guys who emerge and take Sillinger's position as "The Gem Outside the Top 10" and I suspect that has already happened to some degree.

 

[aragorn]

The Sens didn't need Sillinger they had already drafted Greig who some think is equally as good if not the better prospect who also plays centre or LW. However, they do need a bruiser who can create havoc & change momentum with one hit in their top six or nine. He is going to create havoc in front of the net the way Tkachuk does & he has a pro shot. Boucher is another unicorn who is not going to get pushed around, who is going to determine some games with his physicality & he is going to get those garbage goals around the net this team needs.

 

[Masked]

The Sens didn't need Sillinger they had already drafted Greig who some think is equally as good if not the better prospect who also plays centre or LW.

Even if they don't need Sillinger, it would be much easier to have traded him this offseason for something they do need than Boucher.

Assen na yo!

 

[aragorn]

Even if they don't need Sillinger, it would be much easier to have traded him this offseason for something they do need than Boucher.

Assen na yo!

We have a few guys we can trade with value Formenton, Brannstrom, Thomson, Sokolov, Jarventie & maybe a few more guys that have enough value to get something that can improve the team. I also think we have plenty of internal players in the org who are going to make a difference on this team moving forward like Boucher, Ostapchuk, Kleven, JBD & Greig.

Sillinger is a good little player but Ottawa didn't need him, they have plenty of skill. They need the big tough physical player if the goal is playoffs & he is the kind of player that makes a difference in the playoffs IMO.

Assen na yo!

 

[ottawah]

Stat watching only a player that was drafted for his physicality offers absolutely no contribution to this discussion.


Right... This board makes no sense sometimes. He is a powerforward not a play making winger. Next post after yours I see 'he has a long way to go but it's a start'. Guys on pace for 50+ goals while being a heavy player.

Because players making the NHL for physicality were major offensive contributors if not team leaders at the CHL level. They were all dominating players at this level. So yes it is a valid cause for concern. You draft for physicality in the 5th+ round not the 1st.

And I would not describe Boucher as a heavy player. He will be an average sized NHL player.

 

[JD1]

Because players making the NHL for physicality were major offensive contributors if not team leaders at the CHL level. They were all dominating players at this level. So yes it is a valid cause for concern. You draft for physicality in the 5th+ round not the 1st.

And I would not describe Boucher as a heavy player. He will be an average sized NHL player.

as a teenager Boucher is already bigger than the average NHL player. Do you think at 19 he's hit his NHL playing weight ?

 

[Bileur]

as a teenager Boucher is already bigger than the average NHL player. Do you think at 19 he's hit his NHL playing weight ?

He said on a podcast (might have been WAM) that he tried playing at over 210 and thought it was too heavy, while under 200 was too light. So I’d expect around 205 as a playing weight.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Bert,

I’ve watched a lot of Boucher. My take is he will be a useful NHL player. I am just tempering the expectations. Pinelli, Beck and Rohrer have been the team’s best forwards. Boucher is developing and it will take some time. I don’t think he ever lives up to his draft position though.

When you consider we chose the first overall in Daigle + high pick for Yashin draft and what happened to them. If we get a decent NHL career from Boucher, I'll be happy.

 

[aragorn]

Because players making the NHL for physicality were major offensive contributors if not team leaders at the CHL level. They were all dominating players at this level. So yes it is a valid cause for concern. You draft for physicality in the 5th+ round not the 1st.

And I would not describe Boucher as a heavy player. He will be an average sized NHL player.

But 5th rd players don't have the skating, the vision, the hockey IQ or an NHL shot like Boucher has. The problem is all people want is high scoring flashy players, this guy plays a hard nosed game while at the same time having some 1st rd attributes that will be quite effective in the playoffs.

If we drafted Sillinger we would have another small C who wouldn't be in our lineup because we have better centres ahead of him. I wouldn't even switch Pinto with him right now given how well Pinto is playing & Kastelic has been great as a 4th line C. And given that they signed the veteran centre Brassard he would be behind him as well. And we already had Greig which could turn into a pretty good C/LW player for them. We didn't need Sillinger & still don't, you can't have a team of just skilled guys & we have plenty of skill, they also need to have guys who can handle the rough stuff especially in the playoffs who can keep up & contribute. Boucher can do that.

 

[Micklebot]

as a teenager Boucher is already bigger than the average NHL player. Do you think at 19 he's hit his NHL playing weight ?

Even if he has maxed out in size, I'm pretty sure Bert was getting at the fact that he plays a heavy game,

Regardless, there's some truth to the fact that most NHL players, even the guys that are only there because of their physical presence, tend to have put up numbers in lower levels. There are exceptions, and Boucher could very well be one given his underlying skill set, but even a guy like Clutterbuck was putting up over a pt per game in his draft year and well over in his D+1. Boucher is in his second season after getting drafted, if he wasn't putting up pts it would be a really big concern.

on the subj of EN goal, they do count just the same, but when a third of your goals are EN, that's not ideal and likely not going to be predictive of end of year totals. He's shooting at over 20% right now, but 15% with a goalie in the net, still a good number, and it's good to see he's finishing, but what I'm more happy about is how often he is getting his shot off, I believe he's in the top 10 in shots per game in the OHL averaging 4 shots a game. If he keeps that up, I think he finishes around 45 goals this year.

 

[Masked]

When you consider we chose the first overall in Daigle + Yashin draft and what happened to them. If we get a decent NHL career from Boucher, I'll be happy.

Roman Hamrlik was the first overall in Yashin's draft. He's who the Senators were hoping to take. So much so that they didn't even deviate from their plan to surround Hamrlik with a Czech friend (Hamr) and a Czech mentor (Jelinek) whom they drafted later that day.

Mike Rathje and Todd Warriner were the expected top two picks for that draft. I'd say the Sens did well picking Yashin over them.

Assen na yo!

 

[Micklebot]

But 5th rd players don't have the skating, the vision, the hockey IQ or an NHL shot like Boucher has. The problem is all people want is high scoring flashy players, this guy plays a hard nosed game while at the same time having some 1st rd attributes that will be quite effective in the playoffs.

If we drafted Sillinger we would have another small C who wouldn't be in our lineup because we have better centres ahead of him. I wouldn't even switch Pinto with him right now given how well Pinto is playing & Kastelic has been great as a 4th line C. And given that they signed the veteran centre Brassard he would be behind him as well. And we already had Greig which could turn into a pretty good C/LW player for them. We didn't need Sillinger & still don't, you can't have a team of just skilled guys & we have plenty of skill, they also need to have guys who can handle the rough stuff especially in the playoffs who can keep up & contribute. Boucher can do that.

If we drafted Sillinger, we'd likely have introduced him as a winger, just like we did with Stutzle. Sillinger is the same size as Boucher, not sure why you think he's small, and he played a pretty physical game in his draft year. The narrative that Sillinger is a skilled guy that can't or won't be able to handle the rough stuff come playoffs seems off to me, he was drafted to be a power forward with an elite shot.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Roman Hamrlik was the first overall in Yashin's draft. He's who the Senators were hoping to take. So much so that they didn't even deviate from their plan to surround Hamrlik with a Czech friend (Hamr) and a Czech mentor (Jelinek) whom they drafted later that day.

Mike Rathje and Todd Warriner were the expected top two picks for that draft. I'd say the Sens did well picking Yashin over them.

Assen na yo!

Notice I didn't say that Yashin was first over all. I kind of alluded he was a high draft pick.

 

[aragorn]

Even if he has maxed out in size, I'm pretty sure Bert was getting at the fact that he plays a heavy game,

Regardless, there's some truth to the fact that most NHL players, even the guys that are only there because of their physical presence, tend to have put up numbers in lower levels. There are exceptions, and Boucher could very well be one given his underlying skill set, but even a guy like Clutterbuck was putting up over a pt per game in his draft year and well over in his D+1. Boucher is in his second season after getting drafted, if he wasn't putting up pts it would be a really big concern.

on the subj of EN goal, they do count just the same, but when a third of your goals are EN, that's not ideal and likely not going to be predictive of end of year totals. He's shooting at over 20% right now, but 15% with a goalie in the net, still a good number, and it's good to see he's finishing, but what I'm more happy about is how often he is getting his shot off, I believe he's in the top 10 in shots per game in the OHL averaging 4 shots a game. If he keeps that up, I think he finishes around 45 goals this year.

He's also had some bad luck & unfortunate circumstances surrounding him since he was drafted. First, there was all the stuff around Covid & not playing games. Then he went to Boston College & that didn't work out for him. He was injured a number of times during that time & never really got into a rhythm. Then he joined the Ottawa 67s & had to deal with a new team, new teammates, in another league, in another country & all the negative press about him in Ottawa.

This yr he has put all of that behind him & is off to a much better start & is looking much more like the guy they thought they drafted. He may never attain what is expected of him by some, but IMO his physical nature & hard hitting style is something the Sens will need given they already have plenty of skilled players in their lineup. This guy IMO is built for the playoffs & has a number of attributes that can only help him play his style on this team. He will make our team bigger, tougher, harder to play against & maybe a little more feared than in past yrs.

 

[Micklebot]

Notice I didn't say that Yashin was first over all. I kind of alluded he was a high draft pick.

I don't really understand the inclusion of Yashin here, he's at worst one of the top 3 centers we've drafted and returned a kings ransom before his career was derailed by injuries with the NYI.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I totally understand the desire for Sillinger on draft day, I wanted him too and had no idea what Boucher was about.

But…

I think people have unrealistic expectations about what 10oa players turn into in general. The term ‘top ten pick’ sounds sexy, but in reality, getting a top six player in that spot would be a homerun, and getting a long term impact NHLer is a great result. By 10oa you’re generally looking at a first round crap shoot.

Outside of the very top of the draft, the chances of getting a top six player drops off a cliff, and it’s no different here. There are a bunch of them in the draft usually, but they end up being all over the first round and second round to a lesser degree.

10oa is basically a mid first round pick, nothing is a guarantee. In this draft in particular we once again missed out on the established top couple tiers of players and were picking from the next group.

Throw in that it was the COVID draft, and it makes picks even less reliable, thus more reason to try and crack home runs.

Anyways, great to see the kid playing well. He looked pretty good in camp, and is now on a nice roll, which is pretty much what all of us wanted to see.

It is interesting to note that he does look to have some NHL transferable skills. His skating and positioning is good, his shot is NHL caliber, and his hitting would be elite NHL if he carries it forward to the NHL. It’s not hard to see the enticement of the potential package.

 

[Ice-Tray]

If we drafted Sillinger, we'd likely have introduced him as a winger, just like we did with Stutzle. Sillinger is the same size as Boucher, not sure why you think he's small, and he played a pretty physical game in his draft year. The narrative that Sillinger is a skilled guy that can't or won't be able to handle the rough stuff come playoffs seems off to me, he was drafted to be a power forward with an elite shot.

If we had drafted Sillinger he likely wouldn’t have played for us last year to be honest.

 

[Micklebot]

I totally understand the desire for Sillinger on draft day, I wanted him too and had no idea what Boucher was about.

But…

I think people have unrealistic expectations about what 10oa players turn into in general. The term ‘top ten pick’ sounds sexy, but in reality, getting a top six player in that spot would be a homerun, and getting a long term impact NHLer is a great result. By 10oa you’re generally looking at a first round crap shoot.

Outside of the very top of the draft, the chances of getting a top six player drops off a cliff, and it’s no different here. There are a bunch of them in the draft usually, but they end up being all over the first round and second round to a lesser degree.

10oa is basically a mid first round pick, nothing is a guarantee. In this draft in particular we once again missed out on the established top couple tiers of players and we’re picking from the next group.

Throw in that it was the COVID draft, and it makes picks even less reliable, this more reason to try and crack home runs.

Anyways, great to see the kid playing well. He looked pretty good in camp, and is now on a nice roll, which is pretty much what most of us wanted to see.

There are a fair number of busts around 10, but you get more homeruns there too. Guys like Lundell, Kopitar, Carter, Rantanen, Fiala and Forsberg. I guess the question is whether you're more likely to bust aiming for the next Rantanen than you are for the next Crouse. I feel like people assume that a pick like Boucher is less likely to bust than Logan Brown, but idk if thats really true, I mean, perhaps if you count being a 4th liner as not busting, since a guy like Brown seems to be top 9 or bust while Boucher can certainly carve out a 4th line role, but at top 10 idk if I'm happy drafting a 4th line player, so I'd consider that a bust (think Lazar).

Patience is required with Boucher, he's shown some nice tools. I hope he can put it together, because my expectation right now is a more physical Lazar that doesn't smile as much and probably isn't willing to take a bite out of a hamburger some fan throws on the ice.

 

[Micklebot]

If we had drafted Sillinger he likely wouldn’t have played for us last year to be honest.

With all the injuries we had? Idk about that. Remember White went down in camp, there was an opening from day one.

 

[Ice-Tray]

With all the injuries we had? Idk about that. Remember White went down in camp, there was an opening from day one.

Yes I remember, but we were all about development, not rushing kids for wins. Grieg looked really good in camp as well and was sent back. I doubt we would have kept him up personally, as there was no point unless it was determined that it would be best for his development. Given our track record at the moment I would wager we would not.

We had openings this year too, but we filled them with guys like Motte and sent guys like Crookshank and Grieg to Belleville for more development. Sokolov and Jarventie are still developing. Not to say I know for sure of course, because I don’t, but I doubt they would have kept him up last year, and maybe not even this year.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes I remember, but we were all about development, not rushing kids for wins. Grieg looked really good in camp as well and was sent back. I doubt we would have kept him up personally, as there was no point unless it was determined that it would be best for his development. Given our track record at the moment I would wager we would not.

We had openings this year too, but we filled them with guys like Motte and sent guys like Crookshank and Grieg to Belleville for more development. Sokolov and Jarventie are still developing. Not to say I know for sure of course, because I don’t, but I doubt they would have kept him up last year, and maybe not even this year.

Certainly possible we'd send him back though unlike Greig had had NHL size. In any event my point was more that we don't need to bring a center in as a center, a guy like Sillinger can come in as a winger, just like Stü did and Greig may very well end up doing.

 

[GCK]

Because players making the NHL for physicality were major offensive contributors if not team leaders at the CHL level. They were all dominating players at this level. So yes it is a valid cause for concern. You draft for physicality in the 5th+ round not the 1st.

And I would not describe Boucher as a heavy player. He will be an average sized NHL player.

That’s not really a great take. A physical player who can play on your 3rd line and contribute some offence is worthy of a mid to late first. The vast majority of forwards drafted in the latest draft will be lucky to become regular contributors on a 3rd line.

 

[OD99]

We have a few guys we can trade with value Formenton, Brannstrom, Thomson, Sokolov, Jarventie & maybe a few more guys that have enough value to get something that can improve the team. I also think we have plenty of internal players in the org who are going to make a difference on this team moving forward like Boucher, Ostapchuk, Kleven, JBD & Greig.

Sillinger is a good little player but Ottawa didn't need him, they have plenty of skill. They need the big tough physical player if the goal is playoffs & he is the kind of player that makes a difference in the playoffs IMO.

Assen na yo!

The idea that Sillinger isn't a physical player is incorrect. He is a guy that teams win with, just happens to have a great shot and some skill too.

And earlier you mentioned him as being an undersized C...he is 6'1" and 200lbs...Boucher is same height and listed at 205lbs. Sillinger has a much better shot.

It's fine to like Boucher but Sillinger is a very good, young player. No need to try and run him down to make Boucher look better in comparison.