I don't really give a damn what Getzlaf if getting. You can search for that comparable sweet NHL contract all you want. If the Kings can afford to line Browns and Richards' pocket for past services rendered, then Kopitar can expect the same. 9.5 @ 8. Maybe 9 if the cap is low in 2016/2017. Which I doubt it will be. Or the Kings can explore the 1C market.
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KINGS17
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Sorry, but the Getzlaf contract is a great comparable, and the Brown and Richards' contracts are exactly why the Kings have to look at it that way.
Plus you forget when Kopitar signed his last deal, he was overpaid in terms of cap hit for the first 2 or 3 seasons. Brown was underpaid during that time. I think it has evened out.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I don't understand the logic that says the Toews contract is a comparable and the Getzlaf contract isn't. Other than different years, which is weak.
Toews got overpaid, doesn't mean Kopitar should/will. And a franchise that's willing to throw 10 million at Kopitar will likely save that money for Stamkos. There are a LOT of reasons Kopitar won't be breaking 9 million a year. I still say 8-8.5.
Toews got overpaid, doesn't mean Kopitar should/will. And a franchise that's willing to throw 10 million at Kopitar will likely save that money for Stamkos. There are a LOT of reasons Kopitar won't be breaking 9 million a year. I still say 8-8.5.
KINGS17
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If Stamkos ever wants to win a Stanley Cup, he better take less than the max. Not saying he isn't worth it, just that his chances are much better if Tampa Bay can afford to pay to get him some help.
These guys will say that they would give anything to win a cup. Well, some of these stars are going to get a chance to prove it if the cap doesn't go up much by leaving $10M - $15M on the table over 8 years.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
They'll have a hard time moving Bickell. Classic example of overpaying a guy for a playoff performance. Williams is obviously better career wise than Bickell, but $5 million per year for 5 years for him is to much. He's a 40-45 point winger in the regular season and will be 34 at the start of next year. He'll be well on his way to being 39 when the contract is up, who here thinks Williams won't be a cap drain at 38 at $5 million a year?
They are both comparable. You can't rule out either. Those who want to use Getzlaf as a comparable need to remember Kopitar will use Toews. Numbers wise Kopitar is as good or better than both players, give or take a bit. Same age roughly, same conference, same playoff success, there are many comparables. As such, Kopitar is likely to fall in between both. $9 to $9.5 million seems very likely.
KINGS17
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Interesting article on Blackhawks' cap situation if the cap is $71M next season.
http://nhlnumbers.com/2015/1/31/eyes-on-the-dollar-chicago-blackhawks
This article assumes that they can move Bickell and his $4M cap hit. They will have to add a lot of sweetener to get some team to swallow that deal.
http://nhlnumbers.com/2015/1/31/eyes-on-the-dollar-chicago-blackhawks
This article assumes that they can move Bickell and his $4M cap hit. They will have to add a lot of sweetener to get some team to swallow that deal.
If we pay Kopitar 9 m we won't win another cup during the contract. I'd rather pay a Hanzal type player to do Kopitars job of not scoring goals. Im really feeling down on the big guy. He's been great but f he disappears. We will see these playoffs if he can up the ante again
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Bickell's contract is horrible. Guy cashed in on one post season, the one thing the Hawks have going for them is he only has two years left after this season, so they can more easily dump him off to a bad team. As you and I have both said before, the worst thing about the Richards deal is the years, the money is terrible but the years make it one of the worst contracts in the sport, maybe the worst.
I assume they will also unload Sharp at the draft. Which will be a tough tough pillow to swallow, Sharp is still an excellent player, despite getting up there in years.
KINGS17
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Oh yeah, Sharp is a goner and Seabrook may be as well.
Hossa is still a productive player, but no team is trading for that contract with the age he has on him. Check out the article, it's pretty ugly for the Hawks.
People say the Kings can't buy out Richards? They may have to do just that. It's going to suck, but it does lower the cap hit while the Kings window is still open.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
The Kings can buy out Richards, but it's going to be key to continue drafting and developing young players who can play for cheap, that can make up for the wasted money on Richards.
The tough thing will be asking AEG to shell out all that money for MR to go away in 2015 when they could have done it in 2014 and greatly improved the outlook of the team. A regular buyout is basically a last resort.
KINGS17
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Yes, Dean's biggest mistake as GM. I hope it doesn't tarnish what he has accomplished. This group should have at least one more cup in them, but getting young guys on less expensive deals to perform, and picking the right ones to give long term deals to will be critical.
Forget Williams, I think getting cost certainty on Toffoli and Pearson is now Dean's #1 priority.
I tend to agree, and giving him $9M for 8 years would be a big mistake.
Kings won't win any more cup for a long time when they won't have Kopitar in team anymore. They don't have not even close replacement for him in the organization and they won't for sure get any close replacement on the market or through the trade.
And I think this season is just the best proof of that.
All negotiations are always based on precentage of the salary cup and 9 mio AVV will be bottom number of his new contract (with Kings or with other team). First three or four years will be for sure over 10mio and last few years will be there for pushing AVV in the region of 9 mio AVV.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Even so, there's very little justification to give him one of the highest contracts in the league. Equating him to Toews and Kane makes him paid more than Ovechkin, Crosby, et. al. That's why Getzlaf is a good comparable too; "The team is not the same without him" applies to Getzlaf and quite a few others, so to say the things you've said with absolute certainty doesn't reflect reality. I think there's a LOT of wiggle room there but agree that the ball is more in Kopitar's court than DLs.
I'm sure Kopitar will at the end sign a contract that will be acceptable for both sides. It won't be onesided in favour of him or Kings.
But I'll repeat again, if DL will try to low-ball him with some of the arguments that some board members on this board represented, it will produce counter-effect. I will just say one thing. Don't try with Kopitar similar negotiation tactic that we saw during the lock-out. That won't end well for Kings...
KingsFan7824
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Lombardi gave Doughty his money, Brown his money, and Quick his money. For better or worse, Kopitar will get his money too. It's going to happen. Accept it now. It doesn't matter if it potentially means the Kings can't put as good of a team around Kopitar as they could if he took less. That's not the player's problem.
KINGS17
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Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Right, and I don't think DL is going to try to strongarm Kopi either. I don't understand what all the gloom-and-doom apprehension is about. I think most of us agree DL will do what it takes with this team to fit Kopi in no matter what that means. I'm just saying it'll take 8-8.5, and I personally believe it will be on the lower end there, like 8.2. That's not at all a lowball offer unless you use Toews' contract as an absolute and I just disagree that that's the way to go.
Well it is lowballing it. Getzlaf signed a contract in 2013 when the cap was at 60 mil. By the time Kopitars contract goes into effect the cap should be well over 70. A cool 10 mil difference. And yes, cap goes up, salary goes it. Doesn't really matter that much that Getzlaf is a slightly better player. Right now, in Kopitars shoes, Getzlaf would be going for 10.5.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
"Should be well over 70" is debatable at best. I agree with the% of cap space thing but again teams around the league are running out of the finite cap space. You're not going to see many contract like Toews and kane handed out even though it seems like everyone wants to suggest salaries will just keep inflating because that's just how it is; no team will be able to afford those deals by the time kopitar signs his if this keeps up!
Kopitar got his current contract with 6,8mio AVV, when salary cap was at cca. 56mio. And at that time he was just talented young player with nothing really to show.
And now, seven years after that, with salary cap at around 71mio, with seven years in a row best scorer on team (on right path to add eight year), with two SC and 2x best scorer in PO, one of the best two-way forward in the league... he is not worth at least 9mio AVV on his next contract?
And now, seven years after that, with salary cap at around 71mio, with seven years in a row best scorer on team (on right path to add eight year), with two SC and 2x best scorer in PO, one of the best two-way forward in the league... he is not worth at least 9mio AVV on his next contract?
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
If that's what it takes, yes. That's roughly the same percentage of the cap. But I think he'll look at other comparables and what struggles teams have with the cap and settle for slightly less to try to keep a good team around him. It's not like he's being shortchanged if he makes 8-8.5.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Essentially not one player is being short changed. John Scott gets paid more than plenty of doctors do in reality.
It's all about what the agents, players and GM's call 'market value.' Kopitar will still be able to eat at $8 million a year, but if he wants market value he'll likely get $9 mill+
Chain
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If the cap was $60 million when Getzlaf signed his deal, which has an $8.25 million cap hit, then if the cap is $70 million the equivalent deal would be $9.625 million. For Getzlaf (or Kopitar) to sign at the same % and get a deal worth $10.5 million the cap would have to be at ~$76.5 million. Unless the Canadian dollar goes up or there's some other source of unforeseen revenue, that's not gonna happen by the time Kopitar signs his deal. If the cap is $70 million then Kopitar would sign at $9.625 to get the same salary as Getzlaf, relative to the cap at the time of signing. I think that's more in line with what we'll see than a deal for $10.5 million. At least I hope so.
KINGS17
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Again, Toews and Kane are OVERPAID!!
A GM would have to be out of his mind to give Getzlaf $80M over 8 years today, and Dean is out of his mind if he gives it to Kopitar.
The Koch brothers should just bit Canada and switch them over to US dollars and end their universal health care while they are at it
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