Player Discussion Tuukka Rask - Part 2 (MOD # 598)

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Last year when I compared Jones and Rask, people said SAMPLE SIZE. So we've added another full year now. How many more do you think we need to add before we can compare?

 

[EverettMike]

Last year when I compared Jones and Rask, people said SAMPLE SIZE. So we've added another full year now. How many more do you think we need to add before we can compare?

Never. They play in different time zones. Impossible to compare them.

 

[Mount Kramer Cameras]

Imagine having Taylor Hall + Jones instead of Rask. Good lord. We done ****** up.

Everyone is a genius GM in retrospect though.

 

[Hali33]

That's why I think there was more to the shot Rask took against NSH then the team is letting people know. Ever since that game he hasn't been the same goaltender.

Except last year he was also inconsistent and his play stunk down the stretch.

I mean maybe there is more to it but it sure seems like this has become a legit issue.

And I don't think Cassidy would say "it's March 23rd, you'd hope it's fatigue and not focus but I can only speculate" if there's an injury.

 

[NDiesel]

Last year when I compared Jones and Rask, people said SAMPLE SIZE. So we've added another full year now. How many more do you think we need to add before we can compare?

I'd take Jones this year, but please tell me you understand the difference playing behind:

Martin-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Dillon-Schlemko

vs our D corps

 

[LouJersey]

I'd take Jones this year, but please tell me you understand the difference playing behind:

Martin-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Dillon-Schlemko

vs our D corps

Yet Martin Jones has faced more shots in less games.

 

[ON3M4N]

Except last year he was also inconsistent and his play stunk down the stretch.

I mean maybe there is more to it but it sure seems like this has become a legit issue.

And I don't think Cassidy would say "it's March 23rd, you'd hope it's fatigue and not focus but I can only speculate" if there's an injury.

Could be related, all I know is ever since he took that shot against NSH his numbers are drastically different. I don't know if I posted them in this thread or another, but is scary how different they are

 

[EverettMike]

"Rask hasn't been nearly good enough during the second half of the season. He's part of the problem, but obviously far from the only one."

--the most reasonable defense of Rask possible

 

[NDiesel]

Yet Martin Jones has faced more shots in less games.

And? Raw stats are fantastic up to a point. I haven't watched much of Jones, however I do know that some of our D and forwards love to make idiotic turnovers that result in golden opportunities for the opponent and often goals. I would be surprised if Jones was near his stats for the Sharks if he played for us.

We can have fantastic shot suppression stats in a game, but all it takes is two terrible plays from us turning into goals and it isn't relevant anymore.

 

[ON3M4N]

Yet Martin Jones has faced more shots in less games.

Quality vs Quantity

I'm not arguing the point, I'm just saying that maybe he's face more shots but their not quality shots. Good defenses have the ability to force bad shots. Again not saying that the case here, but its something you have to consider.

 

[ON3M4N]

"Rask hasn't been nearly good enough during the second half of the season. He's part of the problem, but obviously far from the only one."

--the most reasonable defense of Rask possible

I don't think anyone would disagree that he hasn't played well recently. He himself has even said he hasn't played well.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

I'd take Jones this year, but please tell me you understand the difference playing behind:

Martin-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Dillon-Schlemko

vs our D corps

Rask played behind the same D corps October - January and put up phenomenal numbers. But yea, he sucks behind THIS D corps, right?

I'm ok with looking at that Nashville game as some sort of bad turning point... but there is an excuse every year it seems. As legitimate as it is or not.

 

[Hali33]

Could be related, all I know is ever since he took that shot against NSH his numbers are drastically different. I don't know if I posted them in this thread or another, but is scary how different they are

You're right, they are drastic and you may have a good point there. But unfortunately he's got a growing body of work, in at least the last couple years where things have looked quite inconsistent from month to month. It seems to be part of his overall game as he ages.

 

[EverettMike]

I don't think anyone would disagree that he hasn't played well recently. He himself has even said he hasn't played well.

Yeah, but you should see the people in here blaming literally everyone and everything but him! So many excuses for Rask, as always.

 

[NDiesel]

Rask played behind the same D corps October - January and put up phenomenal numbers. But yea, he sucks behind THIS D corps, right?

I'm ok with looking at that Nashville game as some sort of bad turning point... but there is an excuse every year it seems. As legitimate as it is or not.

He was also playing amazing at the beginning of the year, playing a lot better than he is almost.

The start of that post you quoted is "I'd still take Jones". I'm acknowledging that Rask has not been very good, but if anyone thinks many goalies are going to come in and play much better over a season behind this defense then they are in for a surprise.

 

[ON3M4N]

Rask played behind the same D corps October - January and put up phenomenal numbers. But yea, he sucks behind THIS D corps, right?

I'm ok with looking at that Nashville game as some sort of bad turning point... but there is an excuse every year it seems. As legitimate as it is or not.

You bring up a solid point about the defense being the same, just to play devils advocate though....

Chara the last few years wears down towards the end of the year because of minutes

Carlo hit his rookie wall and has looked like a rookie recently

Krug is struggling mightly with his puck possession

Killer is playing his off-hand making it harder for him to clear pucks along the boards

There's a lot of contributing factors as to the poor play, that's why I don't get why certain fans and the media want to jump on and blame one player.

 

[ON3M4N]

Yeah, but you should see the people in here blaming literally everyone and everything but him! So many excuses for Rask, as always.

I don't know if its blaming everyone but him as much as it is defending him and giving reasons why its not just his fault. I'm a huge Rask support and have been says his days in Finland, but right now he's not playing well even by his own words. The defense certainly isn't helping him out, but he's gotta be better. It seems like the last 4 games he's been good for a soft goal, whether it be on a defensive breakdown or not. Those are the saves he needs to make i.e. Drouin last night.

 

[missingchicklet]

You bring up a solid point about the defense being the same, just to play devils advocate though....

Chara the last few years wears down towards the end of the year because of minutes

Carlo hit his rookie wall and has looked like a rookie recently

Krug is struggling mightly with his puck possession

Killer is playing his off-hand making it harder for him to clear pucks along the boards

There's a lot of contributing factors as to the poor play, that's why I don't get why certain fans and the media want to jump on and blame one player.

To further play devil's advocate...the defense has been very loose and undisciplined against the better teams under Cassidy. Doesn't even look like a defense at times it is so disorganized. Part of it is due to poor adjustment to the new wrinkles thrown in by the coach. The other part of it is simply awful execution on a personal level by the players. Not blaming Cassidy at all btw. The changes have opened up things for better scoring by the d-men. There has been some trade-off though defensively. None of that excuses some of Rask's poorer performances, but let's not get silly and act as if it hasn't made a difference in making his job more difficult.

 

[NDiesel]

I don't know if its blaming everyone but him as much as it is defending him and giving reasons why its not just his fault. I'm a huge Rask support and have been says his days in Finland, but right now he's not playing well even by his own words. The defense certainly isn't helping him out, but he's gotta be better. It seems like the last 4 games he's been good for a soft goal, whether it be on a defensive breakdown or not. Those are the saves he needs to make i.e. Drouin last night.

It has definitely been a team breakdown, and we have people here acting like our defense corps isn't mediocre after our top 3 and even then Carlo has clearly hit a wall.

I'm actually upset with how Rask has played, but I'm in here defending him because it is not just his fault and lots of people want to place the blame on only him. Just using the Bolts game, he had two goals that were purely the defense's fault, one unfortunate deflection off McQuaid, and two he should have had.

So the team really screwed him on two goals, but the game was still in reach. At the same time he has to make the saves on the Drouin and Stralman goals and he failed to do it when we needed it.

 

[ON3M4N]

To further play devil's advocate...the defense has been very loose and undisciplined against the better teams under Cassidy. Doesn't even look like a defense at times it is so disorganized. Part of it is due to poor adjustment to the new wrinkles thrown in by the coach. The other part of it is simply awful execution on a personal level by the players. Not blaming Cassidy at all btw. The changes have opened up things for better scoring by the d-men. There has been some trade-off though defensively. None of that excuses some of Rask's poorer performances, but let's not get silly and act as if it hasn't made a difference in making his job more difficult.

I think you also have to factor in other teams having some kind of book on how Cassidy is having the team play. When he first took over they changed how they played slightly and it threw teams off. Now there is enough video for teams to come up with a game plan. Again its a small thing in a long list of reason why this team could be struggling.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

You bring up a solid point about the defense being the same, just to play devils advocate though....

Chara the last few years wears down towards the end of the year because of minutes

Carlo hit his rookie wall and has looked like a rookie recently

Krug is struggling mightly with his puck possession

Killer is playing his off-hand making it harder for him to clear pucks along the boards

There's a lot of contributing factors as to the poor play, that's why I don't get why certain fans and the media want to jump on and blame one player.

On the opposite spectrum, Krug struggled in the beginning of the season.

Goaltending has to be the most critical position since that player is legitimately the only one at the time to take the blame. No one is blaming Rask completely, there are a lot of factors here. But it's mighty frustrating to see a pattern, 3rd year in a row+, end of season melt down. Crunch time, and Rask has several times (either series, games, even last 2 minutes) that really question his mental fortitude. We ALL know how good he can be. I think that's the biggest part of this. Tuukka CAN be downright nasty. Highlight goalie, Vezina goalie, etc. Just seems like it doesn't happen in the Bruins biggest times of need. And no, I'm not blaming him for each and every occasion. It's just the goalies that DO hold the fort at the right times separate those that don't. Hell, maybe it's having just watched Tim Thomas' amazing playoff run and cup win (which, ironically, Tuukka's numbers are better!)

It's, unfortunately, the end result that matters most. Which didn't favor Tuukka. I think we all want the same thing here on this board. Is Tuukka to be that guy, we know he can be. He just hasn't been, and it's disappointing to almsot all of us.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Yeah, but you should see the people in here blaming literally everyone and everything but him! So many excuses for Rask, as always.

You're right (for once! as usual? Not sure how to annotate this one) Mike.

The thing is, so often people will go overboard on these boards. And that goes for both blaming and defending Rask. Your "most reasonable defense of Rask" explanation is the rational "somewhere in the middle" reality that makes the most sense. I just wish there was more of the "somewhere in the middle" and less of either extreme.

 

[EverettMike]

You're right (for once! as usual? Not sure how to annotate this one) Mike.

The thing is, so often people will go overboard on these boards. And that goes for both blaming and defending Rask. Your "most reasonable defense of Rask" explanation is the rational "somewhere in the middle" reality that makes the most sense. I just wish there was more of the "somewhere in the middle" and less of either extreme.

Same. But I hate a lack of accountability more than anything, so "he can do no wrong!" drives me nuts far more. But I've defended Rask before too, to the people who hate him irrationally drive me nuts, just a little less.

I also think I'm sensitive to it because I think a majority of the Boston hockey media has been in the bag for the team for a long time, and no one gets defended more than Rask. Not all, but more than not seem to sugarcoat this organizations problems.

I believe it's because Claude and Chiarelli gave them amazing access, and now many like Sweeney.

 

[EverettMike]

Also, I'm usually right. And even when I'm wrong it's not my fault.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

You're right (for once! as usual? Not sure how to annotate this one) Mike.

The thing is, so often people will go overboard on these boards. And that goes for both blaming and defending Rask. Your "most reasonable defense of Rask" explanation is the rational "somewhere in the middle" reality that makes the most sense. I just wish there was more of the "somewhere in the middle" and less of either extreme.

Is this about hockey or politics?

Seems to be a trend in both fields.