Turnover for next years squad

[StormCast]

Cam Ward was in playoff mode after a disasterous first couple weeks. He is getting old though

Oh man, here we go...someone suggests he's an old 29 and the dittos start. In tennis 29 is old, not in the NHL as a goaltender. The lots of miles on him doesn't wash either, imo.

Agree - isn't this ("he also played center") like saying in baseball your star pitcher ALSO played centerfield and shortstop in high school or college? Or your pro basketball guard also played Power forward or center before hitting the big leagues?

No, it's not a good analogy at all. I'm not advocating Tlusty play C in the NHL but my point was that people dismissed the idea because they didn't know his history. He was projected to be a center in the NHL and played in the middle extensively and exclusively for quite some time. Oddly enough, one of the reasons he was shifted to wing in the NHL was because of concerns over his D play. To find his way initially with the Canes, he elevated his D play to the point where he is very effective now.

Again, I don't see him as a viable option at C but to act like the idea is totally without merit is not quite accurate either.

 

[Joe McGrath]

And in the games that followed the Winnipeg game, he allowed 8 goals in the following 128 shots. Which, if my math is correct, is somewhere around .930+ SV%? Or how about the rest of his month, before the Winnipeg game? 215 shots faced, 17 goals allowed. Somewhere around .920 SV%?

So if we write off the Winnipeg game as "It happens to the best of them", from Feb onward, until his injury, he had a save percentage of about .927

But no, that's "pretty damn average"

Cam's numbers from February 1st on are:

13 games 8-3-1 2.38 GAA 92.1 sv%. 9 of those games on the road. The losses were the previously mentioned Winnepeg game which was entirely on him and two separate 3-0 losses, one which he fell apart in (Monteal) and one where he was the only player on the ice who seemed to give a ****(Washington).

 

[Sasha Cares]

Cam will likely play here another 5-7 years. Get used to it.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I can't believe that this season includes both the best road trip we have ever had and the worst losing streak we have ever had.

 

[Sasha Cares]

What's a 'worst winning streak'

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

What's a 'worst winning streak'

Does 2 wins in a row count as a streak? Or is that just a pair of wins? How many wins does it take to qualify as a streak? Whatever the minimum number is would qualify as the worst winning streak.

These are the things that keep me up at night.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

No, it's not a good analogy at all. I'm not advocating Tlusty play C in the NHL but my point was that people dismissed the idea because they didn't know his history. He was projected to be a center in the NHL and played in the middle extensively and exclusively for quite some time. Oddly enough, one of the reasons he was shifted to wing in the NHL was because of concerns over his D play. To find his way initially with the Canes, he elevated his D play to the point where he is very effective now.

Again, I don't see him as a viable option at C but to act like the idea is totally without merit is not quite accurate either.

As the original opponent of Tlusty playing center in this thread, I can say that this is absolutely untrue. I am fully aware of his past at center, as I am of Jeff Skinner's or Pat Kane's or Zach Boychuk's. While I didn't really elaborate, and I did toss aside the idea of him playing center for the Canes, assuming that I did so because I didn't possess the knowledge of Tlusty's past at center is a bit of a leap, wouldn't you say?

 

[StormCast]

As the original opponent of Tlusty playing center in this thread, I can say that this is absolutely untrue. I am fully aware of his past at center, as I am of Jeff Skinner's or Pat Kane's or Zach Boychuk's. While I didn't really elaborate, and I did toss aside the idea of him playing center for the Canes, assuming that I did so because I didn't possess the knowledge of Tlusty's past at center is a bit of a leap, wouldn't you say?

No, I posted that some "people" did that - not the original responder, not all people, just people. It's true and I stand by my comment. I never mentioned you by name so not sure why you've decided I was singling you out.

So no, there was no leap. But whatever, if you want to take offense then have it.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

No, I posted that some "people" did that - not the original responder, not all people, just people. It's true and I stand by my comment. I never mentioned you by name so not sure why you've decided I was singling you out.

So no, there was no leap. But whatever, if you want to take offense then have it.

No offense was taken, I was basically the only one that responded, then you referred to "people." Assumed you were talking about people that were against Tlusty being center in the thread, which at the time was basically me, Sasha Cares, and Anton Skinner. Anton Skinner and Sasha Cares both made their argument based on not wanting to take Tlusty off Staal's wing, so if anyone could have given the impression of writing Tlusty off as not being a center solely based on ignorance of his history, in this thread it would have to be me. But obviously I misinterpreted your post (and to be honest I still don't know who you were calling out if it wasn't me, but it really doesn't matter). Sorry for the confusion!

 

[StormCast]

No offense was taken, I was basically the only one that responded, then you referred to "people." Assumed you were talking about people that were against Tlusty being center in the thread, which at the time was basically me. Obviously I misinterpreted your post. Sorry for the confusion!

No problemo from here and if I was singling out someone I would say it directly. But enough of that.

Now let's talk about how Semin played C extensively coming up the ranks.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Does 2 wins in a row count as a streak? Or is that just a pair of wins? How many wins does it take to qualify as a streak? Whatever the minimum number is would qualify as the worst winning streak.

These are the things that keep me up at night.

I think we can all agree that right now .... one in a row qualifies as a winning streak.

 

[Roboturner913]

Would like to see some kind of overhaul even if it doesn't touch the "core players" ie the Staals, Skinner, Ward, etc.

Get one of those wingers from Pitts that J. Staal used to play so well with, Kennedy or Dupuis, make that your second line with Ruutu, then try to build another scoring line around Skinner with Rask/Terry/Dalpe/Nash or maybe a middling FA vet. This solves the Staal/Skinner chemistry issue and gives Jordan like-minded linemates while giving Skinner an opportunity to carry a scoring line on his own (since it seems like that's all he ever wants to do anyway....)

Flip Pitkanen+McBain for an equivalent stay-at-home d-man (Girardi?) and sign another cheap vet to fill out the 3rd D pairing and make up for Murphy's mistakes (let's call this Scott Hannan for now)

Tlusty-Staal-Semin
Kennedy-Staal-Ruutu
Skinner-Nash (or Matt Cullen?)-Terry/Dalpe/Rask or whoever can keep up
Bowman-Sutter-Dwyer or something along those lines
Wallace

Faulk-Gleason
Girardi-Harrison
Hannan-Murphy
Sanguinnetti

 

[StormCast]

^Tyler Kennedy on the second line? Uh...but...um...well...NO! You going for a tank next year too?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Harrison in in the top 4 = top 5 pick

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Harrison in in the top 4 = top 5 pick

This.

We need another top 4 defender. Gleason, Pitkanen and Faulk can do a defense by committee thing (though Muller seems to love to play Faulk for half the game). It's that 4th spot that's filled with Harrison/McBain/Corvo/Jones/Bellemore/Bergeron(1000 LOL's) that we get screwed up.

One more guy like Brayden Coburn or Jason Garrison or Jaques Demers, and we have a good enough defense (while mostly healthy) to compete.

 

[My Special Purpose]

This.

We need another top 4 defender. Gleason, Pitkanen and Faulk can do a defense by committee thing (though Muller seems to love to play Faulk for half the game). It's that 4th spot that's filled with Harrison/McBain/Corvo/Jones/Bellemore/Bergeron(1000 LOL's) that we get screwed up.

One more guy like Brayden Coburn or Jason Garrison or Jaques Demers, and we have a good enough defense (while mostly healthy) to compete.

He does this because he knows what most of our fanbase can't seem to understand, and that's that Pitkanen and Gleason are massively overrated. Adding Coburn, Garrison or Demers to our current group won't improve us one iota, because it's not our bottom pairing that's the problem. It's the guys who are supposed to be top four guys playing 20-plus minutes a night, who just plain aren't good enough.

 

[Roboturner913]

^Tyler Kennedy on the second line? Uh...but...um...well...NO! You going for a tank next year too?

He played well with him before....in any case my only point was that it's not an absolutely necessity that J. Staal and Skinner have to play together. You can split them up and hopefully give teams two different lines to worry about in addition to the big top line.

That assumes that Jordan can in fact carry a line with appropriate linemates, and that Skinner gets his head on straight...who knows if that will be the case, but I think we've seen that going top-heavy may not necessarily work over the course of a full season.

He does this because he knows what most of our fanbase can't seem to understand, and that's that Pitkanen and Gleason are massively overrated. Adding Coburn, Garrison or Demers to our current group won't improve us one iota, because it's not our bottom pairing that's the problem. It's the guys who are supposed to be top four guys playing 20-plus minutes a night, who just plain aren't good enough.

To some extent I agree with this, Gleason sucks out loud about half the time and Pitkanen is good when he plays, but only plays about half the time. This is why I hoped Gleason would be out at the trade deadline and force JR to find a more consistent stay-at-home guy in the offseason.

I love the way Pitkanen plays but he can't be counted on to actually play. That's a problem. It's even more of a problem when he makes 4 something million a year. I would like to think he has trade value significant enough to pull down a good stay-at-home guy of equivalent talent, but most of the guys he could realistically be traded for are on the wrong side of 35 years old and the ones that aren't, are getting there fast.

 

[Buenos Necas]

He does this because he knows what most of our fanbase can't seem to understand, and that's that Pitkanen and Gleason are massively overrated. Adding Coburn, Garrison or Demers to our current group won't improve us one iota, because it's not our bottom pairing that's the problem. It's the guys who are supposed to be top four guys playing 20-plus minutes a night, who just plain aren't good enough.

This. We essentially need to acquire a new top pairing, and hopefully that's something we can accomplish this off season, starting with trading Pitkanen and McBain. Our 'bottom-4' is set, we know Harrison and Murphy will be on the team, with one of Sanguinetti or Bellemore sticking around as the 7th. We also know that Gleason is slotted with Faulk on a pairing, because "he would be captain if Eric wasn't," so Gleason is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

xxx-xxx
Gleason-Faulk
Harrison-Murphy
Bellemore

I don't think that's a bad start to building a defense at all, the only problem is that JR will fill those holes with someone currently on the roster (Pits, Sangs, or Corvo ) and the other will be some reclamation project/cap-dump.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

He does this because he knows what most of our fanbase can't seem to understand, and that's that Pitkanen and Gleason are massively overrated. Adding Coburn, Garrison or Demers to our current group won't improve us one iota, because it's not our bottom pairing that's the problem. It's the guys who are supposed to be top four guys playing 20-plus minutes a night, who just plain aren't good enough.

In what world are Coburn, Garrison and Demers bottom pairing defenders? They're all top 4 at least.

And I don't get the Joni hate. He's actually one of the two competent defenders on our team. Gleason is overrated, but he is still the low end of a top 4 guy (could he be the worst top 4 guy in the League? Maybe).

A defense of:
Pitkanen-X
Faulk-Gleason
Harrison-McBain

Is fine while healthy (and yes, BBA, I know that Pitkanen sits out 50% of the time). We're one top 4 defender away from a decent defense. Not spectacular, but given our forwards and goaltending, enough to get into the playoffs.

 

[Joe McGrath]

This.

We need another top 4 defender. Gleason, Pitkanen and Faulk can do a defense by committee thing (though Muller seems to love to play Faulk for half the game). It's that 4th spot that's filled with Harrison/McBain/Corvo/Jones/Bellemore/Bergeron(1000 LOL's) that we get screwed up.

One more guy like Brayden Coburn or Jason Garrison or Jaques Demers, and we have a good enough defense (while mostly healthy) to compete.

Is he the new head coach?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Is he the new head coach?

Woops, meant his son Jason.

 

[Sasha Cares]

Joni is a top pairing guy ONLY when healthy and paired with another top pairing guy.

 

[My Special Purpose]

In what world are Coburn, Garrison and Demers bottom pairing defenders? They're all top 4 at least.

And I don't get the Joni hate. He's actually one of the two competent defenders on our team. Gleason is overrated, but he is still the low end of a top 4 guy (could he be the worst top 4 guy in the League? Maybe).

A defense of:
Pitkanen-X
Faulk-Gleason
Harrison-McBain

Is fine while healthy (and yes, BBA, I know that Pitkanen sits out 50% of the time). We're one top 4 defender away from a decent defense. Not spectacular, but given our forwards and goaltending, enough to get into the playoffs.

A) When compared to the rest of the d-men on our roster, I agree Pitkanen is one of the two best. However, when we play games, we play against other teams. So having one of the better defensemen "in the league" may be more valuable than having one of the two best defensemen "on our team."

B) I think we should aim higher than a "competent" guy who plays 50% of our games on our top pairing.

C) The fact that Joni is hurt all the time can't be discounted. One of the hallmarks of a top-pairing d-man is that he freakin' *plays* every night. You acknowledge that he only plays half the time, but you dismiss it like it's irrelevant. It's not. If he's not on the ice, he's not helping us. Games aren't played on paper. Jotting down Pitkanen's name at the top of our defense "when healthy" doesn't help us win games.

 

[wolfpack87]

I highly doubt we're spending much money in the offseason, so the obvious fixes have to come from the draft, cheaper FA options or dealing somebody.

Tlusty-Staal-Semin
Skinner-Staal-Rutuu
Dwyer-Matt Cullen-Dalpe (I still believe in him, not putting him on Boychuk's level just yet)
Wallace (re-sign him, I like his attitude and toughness)-Nash-Drew Miller (Red Wings won't keep him)

Backup goalie: Jason LaBarbera from Phoenix. 3 of his 4 seasons in Phoenix have been very solid years as a backup.

Defense is where I just don't have a clue, but I'll throw crap to the wall. I don't think we will get lucky enough to win the lotto to get Mr. Jones.

Faulk-Pitkanen
Gleason-Andrew Ference
Murphy-Harrison/Draft pick

 

[My Special Purpose]

I highly doubt we're spending much money in the offseason, so the obvious fixes have to come from the draft, cheaper FA options or dealing somebody.

Tlusty-Staal-Semin
Skinner-Staal-Rutuu
Dwyer-Matt Cullen-Dalpe (I still believe in him, not putting him on Boychuk's level just yet)
Wallace (re-sign him, I like his attitude and toughness)-Nash-Drew Miller (Red Wings won't keep him)

Backup goalie: Jason LaBarbera from Phoenix. 3 of his 4 seasons in Phoenix have been very solid years as a backup.

Defense is where I just don't have a clue, but I'll throw crap to the wall. I don't think we will get lucky enough to win the lotto to get Mr. Jones.

Faulk-Pitkanen
Gleason-Andrew Ference
Murphy-Harrison/Draft pick

No offense to you, wolfpack, but this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The top six forwards, top three d-men and starting goalie are the same. All we'd be doing is shifting in and out some (four in your example) bottom six forwards (Matt Cullen and Drew Miller), bottom three d-men (Andrew Ference) and a backup goalie. I'm not sure how that helps. The fact is that our 10 best players haven't been very good this year.

And there's really just nothing we can do about it with the contracts all guaranteed like they are.

I'm willing to give Muller his first training camp and next season to make this work (and I think JR is thinking the same thing). But if we're not in playoff position at this time next season, I think Muller is in trouble. And if that's the case, I'm not sure PK is going to allow JR to just fire him and make another coaching hire. The whole front office could see a good shuffle if next year goes badly. And we'll essentially have the same players, so it's going to be very interesting.