TSN’s Top 50 NHL Players for 2024-25

[wetcoast]

Matthews and the rest of the Leafs deserve the criticism for underperforming come playoff time and only advancing past round 1 (once) so far.

The same Draisaitl that completely disappeared in the Stanley Cup Finals?

0 points in game #1 (Oilers lose 3-0)
0 points in game #2 (Oilers lose 4-1)
0 points in game #3 (Oilers lose 4-3)
2 assists in game #4 (Oilers win 8-1)
0 points in game #5 (Oilers win 5-3)
1 assist in game #6 (Oilers win 5-1)
0 points in game #7 (Oilers lose 2-1)

On the biggest stage of his hockey career, he was a complete no show. Same cannot be said for McDavid, MacKinnon and Kucherov.

I really wonder if people actually followed the playoffs when Draisatl had both a broken rib and finger, hell 80% of the posters here couldn't type a post with a broken rib it's hard to just breathe with one.

If you didn't know that then that's fair you can rescind your mistake here then.

But sadly others keep bringing this up when they know the facts about his health.

 

[wetcoast]

why do people in Toronto have a hard time understanding that good players get overrated in that market, simply due to the size of the market?

TSN and Sportsnet, whether they own the team or not, know that by pumping up Leafs players they will draws eyeballs and clicks, which generates revenue for their companies.

It's not bias, it's business and those networks know who butters their bread. keep Leafs fans happy and they will continue coming to their sites.

Sure but big market players play in NY as well right?

I'd bet a paycheck that if Matthews played in Utah or Dallas or Carolina, he's not that high on the list. Unfortunately we can't test that theory and Leafs fans will continue to say he's ranked where he should be and non-Leafs fans will continue to say he's overrated due to the market.

If Matthews played on any of those 3 teams there would be what 50-70% less hate for him that borderlines on ridiculous from fan bases that hate the Leafs one would guess.

The guy has won 3 od the last 4 Richard trophies and has played some decent 2 way hockey among top goal scorers so people need to stop minimizing that and then exaggerate his playoff woes as was pointed out upthread.

 

[wetcoast]

Because playoffs are way more intense and everyone tries their hardest and it's the actual best teams in the league competing against each other. Pretty easy to see why playoffs performance should count for a lot more.

So I guess players that don't make the playoffs shouldn't be included on any top 50 list then?

Everyone plays in the regular season and plays different opponents so teams like LA not being able to get by a powerhouse like the Oilers isn't reflective of any of their star players individual abilities as teams advance not individual players.

Take amateur drafting for instance they just don't pick the players who had the best playoffs they actually consider how good a player is and how good they can become right?

where’s Ovechkin ?

The poll asked top 50 not top 500.

If you have an argument for him being in the top 50 please make it.

 

[wetcoast]

I was expecting only pasta but am hoping Necas and Hronek start entering the late 40s

I doubt that Hronek ever gets top 50 and Necas might have a better chance but I doubt it as well.

Necas in his best year so far didn't even hit top 50 in scoring and he is going to be 26 in the new year.

If Ovechkin isn’t in the top 50, neither is Stamkos.

This argument isn't really very strong as Stamkos was 43 (he wouldn't be on my list personally) but he had 81 points last year so how exactly does Ovi stack up?

 

[Realgud]

So I guess players that don't make the playoffs shouldn't be included on any top 50 list then?

Everyone plays in the regular season and plays different opponents so teams like LA not being able to get by a powerhouse like the Oilers isn't reflective of any of their star players individual abilities as teams advance not individual players.

Take amateur drafting for instance they just don't pick the players who had the best playoffs they actually consider how good a player is and how good they can become right?

True but when there are players who prove that they can't do it when it becomes harder while others can and you have tangible proof of that, there is absolutely no reason to ignore that data when deciding who you'd rather have for the entire season (regular + playoffs). Sure it will be unknown with non-playoffs teams, but what can you do? The solution isn't to scrap the most important part of the season when evaluating players.

 

[wetcoast]

True but when there are players who prove that they can't do it when it becomes harder while others can and you have tangible proof of that, there is absolutely no reason to ignore that data when deciding who you'd rather have for the entire season (regular + playoffs). Sure it will be unknown with non-playoffs teams, but what can you do? The solution isn't to scrap the most important part of the season when evaluating players.

You are talking in such general terms that it's hard to understand your point here.

The most important thing in evaluating any player is their skillset and production over a large sample not a smaller one where they only play one team or at maximum 4 teams.

In the 20-21 season McDavid scorched the league and the Oilers lost in 4 games to the Jets, was McDavid not the #1 player in the NHL that year?

Is it even really a question?

 

[norrisnick]

You are talking in such general terms that it's hard to understand your point here.

The most important thing in evaluating any player is their skillset and production over a large sample not a smaller one where they only play one team or at maximum 4 teams.

In the 20-21 season McDavid scorched the league and the Oilers lost in 4 games to the Jets, was McDavid not the #1 player in the NHL that year?

Is it even really a question?

A larger sample would include playoffs, not ignore them. That's the point being made.

 

[wetcoast]

A larger sample would include playoffs, not ignore them. That's the point being made.

Not sure why you are quoting me as I'm not ignoring them but to say that playoffs are the largest component of the anyaslsis of who is currently on the NHL top 50 list is ludicrous and that was the argument I responded to.

In the last 4 seasons AM has 31 more goals than the second place guy in the regular season and is also 6th in points over that time frame, people wanting to knock him out of the top 10 for playoffs are just out to lunch.

 

[norrisnick]

Not sure why you are quoting me as I'm not ignoring them but to say that playoffs are the largest component of the anyaslsis of who is currently on the NHL top 50 list is ludicrous and that was the argument I responded to.

In the last 4 seasons AM has 31 more goals than the second place guy in the regular season and is also 6th in points over that time frame, people wanting to knock him out of the top 10 for playoffs are just out to lunch.

You certainly seem to be ignoring them when you don't seem to want to acknowledge that AM being 42nd in playoff goals and 38th in playoff points over that same time frame might in fact knock him out of the top 10.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It's a players list based on overall performance on how they rank and with only 16 teams making the playoffs why wouldn't regular season play be paramount in evaluating these players?

Because if it is regular season only then the ranking of the three Leafs is pretty reasonable. If you prioritize the playoffs one disappears and the other two are a lot lower. Even just including the playoffs knocks all three down a fair bit.

Depending on how much you like or dislike the Leafs you put more of less emphasis on the regular season.

 

[LevelingSolo]

The childish squabbling is always funny. Love how fans take it personal when somebody says their player should be lower or whatever. It really doesn’t matter. If we discuss the list as adults, without taking shit personal, I think Leon is a top 3 player. 4 is too low for him. I'd swap Leon and Matthews. It’s very minor, no need to argue over things like this lol.

It's all in good fun though my friend

 

[HockeyWooot]

Not terrible in terms of inclusion. Other than a small few I think that’s more or less the right people included.

Order probably will have some strong opinions, but even then nothing too too egregious.

For me the following would change:

Hyman. A great player who has fit perfectly with McDavid, but probably wouldn’t have him ahead of Dahlin.

Hughes. Young superstar but wouldn’t have him at 12 just yet, no less ahead of Karpizov and Josi.

Marner. Too high, one of the top wingers in the game but probably not ahead of Heiskanen, Aho, Forsberg or even a Guentzel.

Dobson. Wouldn’t have ahead of McAvoy.

Johnston. Fantastic young player who steps up in the playoffs, wouldn’t have him above others not on the list like Demko or Slavin.

Swayman. Not a proven starter, shouldn’t be on the list.

Heiskanen. Would have him a few spots higher.

 

[Juxta Position]

Sure but big market players play in NY as well right?

If Matthews played on any of those 3 teams there would be what 50-70% less hate for him that borderlines on ridiculous from fan bases that hate the Leafs one would guess.

The guy has won 3 od the last 4 Richard trophies and has played some decent 2 way hockey among top goal scorers so people need to stop minimizing that and then exaggerate his playoff woes as was pointed out upthread.

Exaggerate his playoff woes? He has .88 PPG in the playoffs, for a supposed top 3 player in the world, that is absolutely nowhere near good enough. And this isn't a small sample size, it's his entire career.

Yes he gets alot of hate from opposing fans because he plays in Toronto, but most of that hate stems from the fact that he gets the Toronto media push into a tier he doesn't belong in simply because he is a Leaf. It works both ways.

Lists like this are entirely subjective, and I already said if you placed him in a certain range (i.e. 2-6 or something) different people would have him slotted in differently. I wouldn't give a shit at all if he was ranked at 6, for example, but he's almost always the first player that people whine about with lists like this.

You're here acting like he's overrated solely because he plays for a specific market and that the guy who has scored the most goals in the entire league since he played his first game (while also getting league wide recognition for his two-way abilities) somehow isn't actually a top player and is only high on lists like this because of market bias.

Where would you put him on the list if he was on Utah or Dallas or Carolina?

between 5-10

 

[wetcoast]

You certainly seem to be ignoring them when you don't seem to want to acknowledge that AM being 42nd in playoff goals and 38th in playoff points over that same time frame might in fact knock him out of the top 10.

Kind of like you ignoring that Matthews has played in 30 playoff games over that time period eh?

BTW he is 23rd in PPG right?

So maybe instead of pretending to say what I'm doing concentrate on the facts.

Where do you have AM in your top 50?

 

[wetcoast]

Because if it is regular season only then the ranking of the three Leafs is pretty reasonable. If you prioritize the playoffs one disappears and the other two are a lot lower. Even just including the playoffs knocks all three down a fair bit.

Depending on how much you like or dislike the Leafs you put more of less emphasis on the regular season.

Except this isn't how player evaluations go.

Berkley Catton had a playoff line of 4-0-4-4 in his draft year yet he went 8th overall, why would that be?

Well for starters scouts focus on each players actual attributes not their teams fortuntes in the playoffs.

Pasta is ranked 7th on the list but where are the posters saying he needs to be knocked down with his playoff resume the last 3 years which is comparable to AM, once again I wonder why that is?

 

[norrisnick]

Kind of like you ignoring that Matthews has played in 30 playoff games over that time period eh?

BTW he is 23rd in PPG right?

So maybe instead of pretending to say what I'm doing concentrate on the facts.

Where do you have AM in your top 50?

Ok. Does playing well in the playoffs usually lead to more or fewer playoff games?

Including all positions? Probably closer to top 15 than to top 5.

 

[wetcoast]

Ok. Does playing well in the playoffs usually lead to more or fewer playoff games?

Playing on a better team leads to more playoff games more than anything else.

Including all positions? Probably closer to top 15 than to top 5.

So below 10th which frankly is a joke, I guess you would have had McDavid out of the top 5 after the 20-21 season as well if your logic is consistent.

Like I stated upthread AM has by a considerable margin the most goals in the last 4 years, plays a very good 2 way game for a top scoring player compared to most of the other forwards in the top 20 or top 30 and was a decent 23rd in playoff PPG in the last 4 playoffs.

Sure drop him a couple of spots but dropping him 10ish spots just doesn't make sense does it?

Or does your playoff perspective only apply to certain players?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Except this isn't how player evaluations go.

Berkley Catton had a playoff line of 4-0-4-4 in his draft year yet he went 8th overall, why would that be?

Well for starters scouts focus on each players actual attributes not their teams fortuntes in the playoffs.

Pasta is ranked 7th on the list but where are the posters saying he needs to be knocked down with his playoff resume the last 3 years which is comparable to AM, once again I wonder why that is?

I don't think player evaluation for draft purposes is quite the same as ranking established players.

Also, I wasn't addressing the actual rankings, just the question of why some posters are more focused on regular season performance and others on playoff performance, and specifically how it relates to the Leafs on the list.

As far as Pasternak goes, the same thing likely applies, but the only comments concerning the regular/playoff dichotomy have been directed at the rankings of the Leafs players.

 

[Peasy]

Putting him around 15th just because of playoff performance would be hilarious considering he is tied for 15th in ppg playoff scoring the past 5 years (his post elc career).

But hey, if youd rather take the great Kempe ahead of him because he has a bit better ppg in the playoffs then all the power to you.

 

[norrisnick]

Playing on a better team leads to more playoff games more than anything else.


So below 10th which frankly is a joke, I guess you would have had McDavid out of the top 5 after the 20-21 season as well if your logic is consistent.

Like I stated upthread AM has by a considerable margin the most goals in the last 4 years, plays a very good 2 way game for a top scoring player compared to most of the other forwards in the top 20 or top 30 and was a decent 23rd in playoff PPG in the last 4 playoffs.

Sure drop him a couple of spots but dropping him 10ish spots just doesn't make sense does it?

Or does your playoff perspective only apply to certain players?

And what makes better teams? Players playing better. If you're expected to be the guy and one of the best in the league, it's kind of hard to justify that ranking if you don't improve the team you're on.

The slight difference being that in '20-'21 McDavid lapped the field during the regular season. 105 to 84 (his teammate, 69[nice] for nearest non-teammate).

How high do you think AM is just with the regular season to think that it would take 10 spots to drop him out of the top 10? Even if you ignore the playoffs, it's not a given that AM is top 5.

 

[Crow]

I could see an argument for Matthews to be anywhere from 7th to 12th all things considered.

There is nothing wrong with this list if it’s regular season only.

 

[wetcoast]

I don't think player evaluation for draft purposes is quite the same as ranking established players.

Sure ranking players is basically the same although one is for right now and for prospects there is a projection element to it.

Also, I wasn't addressing the actual rankings, just the question of why some posters are more focused on regular season performance and others on playoff performance, and specifically how it relates to the Leafs on the list.

Well for starts only 16 teams make the playoffs and there are often fist round losers who play the eventual SC champions or teams close to it so how would one really rank half of the league then?

Furthermore the regular season gives us a larger and more even template to compare players on than the playoffs where the most opponents any players would see would be 4 different teams.

As far as Pasternak goes, the same thing likely applies, but the only comments concerning the regular/playoff dichotomy have been directed at the rankings of the Leafs players.

Absolutely and even after pointing this out the posters will ignore Pasta and keep focused on the Leafs players.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I could see an argument for Matthews to be anywhere from 7th to 12th all things considered.

There is nothing wrong with this list if it’s regular season only.

7th-12th? Really?

 

[wetcoast]

And what makes better teams? Players playing better. If you're expected to be the guy and one of the best in the league, it's kind of hard to justify that ranking if you don't improve the team you're on.

Sure but it's entire teams and even then the better team can sometimes run into a hot goalie or injuries happen like JT getting injured in the first 2 minutes against the Habs in their unlikely run in their stunning SC final run in 20-21, the same season McDavid played very well against the Jets but the Jets had a hot goalie.

So in small sample sizes these things can happen more often and then get constructed as a false narrative.

Has AM been an elite playoff performer, absolutely not but there has been some bad luck along the way as well and then the narrative gets amplified which some have done here and then have been silent in omitting the same standard to other players, like Pasta or Jack Hughes to name a couple.

The slight difference being that in '20-'21 McDavid lapped the field during the regular season. 105 to 84 (his teammate, 69[nice] for nearest non-teammate).

How high do you think AM is just with the regular season to think that it would take 10 spots to drop him out of the top 10? Even if you ignore the playoffs, it's not a given that AM is top 5.

I put lot of emphasis in a question like who is the best player (here it's top 50) as it's a hypothetical ranking of how they get drafted in a throw everyone in the poll for a one year league so each players team constraints or upticks gets equaled out and we are only looking at the players here not the teams.

Playoff performance has some impact on these rankings but very little compared to the regular season because of sample size and the other factors given upthread in my posts.

For example if we are doing a ranking of Dmen does a guy like seider not get ranked because of no playoff history?

absolutely not but then why try to make the playoffs so determative to drop a player 10 whole spots when he was 23rd in PPG in the playoff over the last 3 post seasons it just doesn't make sense and seems prejudicial and arbitrary.

We had this same view by some vocal posters about McDavid (not being as great as he was because his team hasn't won a SC) before this last playoff run and it was just as ridiculous.

 

[norrisnick]

Sure but it's entire teams and even then the better team can sometimes run into a hot goalie or injuries happen like JT getting injured in the first 2 minutes against the Habs in their unlikely run in their stunning SC final run in 20-21, the same season McDavid played very well against the Jets but the Jets had a hot goalie.

So in small sample sizes these things can happen more often and then get constructed as a false narrative.

Has AM been an elite playoff performer, absolutely not but there has been some bad luck along the way as well and then the narrative gets amplified which some have done here and then have been silent in omitting the same standard to other players, like Pasta or Jack Hughes to name a couple.



I put lot of emphasis in a question like who is the best player (here it's top 50) as it's a hypothetical ranking of how they get drafted in a throw everyone in the poll for a one year league so each players team constraints or upticks gets equaled out and we are only looking at the players here not the teams.

Playoff performance has some impact on these rankings but very little compared to the regular season because of sample size and the other factors given upthread in my posts.

For example if we are doing a ranking of Dmen does a guy like seider not get ranked because of no playoff history?

absolutely not but then why try to make the playoffs so determative to drop a player 10 whole spots when he was 23rd in PPG in the playoff over the last 3 post seasons it just doesn't make sense and seems prejudicial and arbitrary.

We had this same view by some vocal posters about McDavid (not being as great as he was because his team hasn't won a SC) before this last playoff run and it was just as ridiculous.

I don't have Pasta or Hughes ahead of AM.

I get that. In a fantasy draft, Matthews would be a really good pick. I don't play fantasy hockey.

Again, it's not 10 whole spots to drop out of the top 10 because ignoring playoffs AM isn't sitting at #1. The trick is, if you've got a few guys that might be a hair behind AM for regular season play, but have significantly better playoff performances, you sort of combine the two and slot accordingly. Like Barkov, he's not so far behind in regular season offense that his 2 Selkes over the last 4 years (the window we're looking at lately) and last couple playoffs can't slide him ahead of Matthews. Fantasy hockey, yeah, you're taking Matthews 10 times out of 10. Taking the player to help your team win hockey games throughout the year and into early summer? Not such an easy choice.