True #1 D-man - Why not?

[Matthews4Calder]

The last time the Leafs had a Number 1 D was Rielly. 5th and 11th in Norris voting , All Star 3 times.

He's not that player right now, but that shouldn't cloud your vision that if you are voted 5th best D in the league, you are clearly viewed as a Top 30/32 D, and Number 1.

Now, I think what's actually being alluded to here, is an Elite #1 D, which frankly is pretty rare, and usually only a handful in the league at any one time. Rielly has never been close to that.

McCabe/Kaberle had a nice run as a first pairing that was of high quality, but neither was an Elite #1D.

Sorry Reilly never was or is a #1 D. Guy has never been good defensively.

 

[Jojalu]

Yeah I thought of both of those guys. It's a shame with Muzzin, the team was so soft around him. What's the point of bringing in Cup winners if you surround them with perennial playoff failures?

In fairness, when they brought Muzzin in, no ome at the time thought it would get this far with so little success

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Leafs are never in position to draft a stud #1 defenseman. If they ever are they've usually dealt their 1st rounder in some ill-advised trade (Kurvers 1st turned into Niedermayer, one of the Kessel 1sts became Hamilton). These types are also impossible to acquire from their original team. Not many franchises would willingly trade Norris calibre defensemen, nor would they allow them to reach free agency, usually. Pietrangelo walking a few years ago was a big error by St. Louis, but the Leafs weren't in the cap position to sign him.

 

[Menzinger]

I don't think Kaberle was much worse than a couple of those listed for other teams, but yes, Salming and then back to Horton.

What, no love for Phaneuf?

I wonder if some of it may also be because of how bad the overall teams were, that limited growth.

Kaberle i think is definitely underrated. Both when he was with the Leafs and also by the fanbases collective memory

I'd love a prime Kaberle on the current team

 

[Fogelhund]

Sorry Reilly never was or is a #1 D. Guy has never been good defensively.

Elite #1 no.

Number 1, yes... nobody is top five in Norris voting without being so.

 

[Moridin]

Find us a Toronto developed C. We have none outside the no brained 1st overall Matthews. Outside that traded for

Nazem Kadri may not be a super star no.1 center, but he turned out to be a pretty damn good center. And I think the Leafs can take credit as developing him, as he was around for 10 seasons past his draft.

 

[BraveCanadian]

It has been slim pickings for the Leafs s far as true number 1 elite defenders go.

Salming was the last one we had besides a few games from Brian Leetch near the end of his career.

There aren’t a lot of these guys and teams hang on to them for obvious reasons.

 

[The Iceman]

Sorry Reilly never was or is a #1 D. Guy has never been good defensively.

What is a number one D?

A top 32 D in the league with 32 teams?

If yes Reilly has been this numerous seasons.

 

[arso40]

What is a number one D?

A top 32 D in the league with 32 teams?

If yes Reilly has been this numerous seasons.

Yes but of that group he’s the only defensive liability

What we need is dobson they need to find a way to make that happen

 

[The Iceman]

To me a #1 D is a guy you play in all situations.

Reilly doesn’t PK or protect leads. Can’t be a number one IMO even though he may be a top 32 overall.

 

[Al14]

Sorry Reilly never was or is a #1 D. Guy has never been good defensively.

Also, a Peewee level slap shot from the point !!!

 

[The Iceman]

Also, a Peewee level slap shot from the point !!!

I wonder about that. Dude is built like a hulk. You would think one off season shooting 1000 pucks would fix it.
Peewee players actually do that 1000 shot challenge.

Maybe he should load up with a stiffer twig when going out for the PP.

I have thought of PK forwards should grab a stick a few inches longer to give themselves that little edge. Why not a stiffer stick for slap shots?

 

[nuck]

I wonder about that. Dude is built like a hulk. You would think one off season shooting 1000 pucks would fix it.
Peewee players actually do that 1000 shot challenge.

Maybe he should load up with a stiffer twig when going out for the PP.

I have thought of PK forwards should grab a stick a few inches longer to give themselves that little edge. Why not a stiffer stick for slap shots?

Thats what I thought from his published stats and the apparent loss of his jackrabbit speed. I have never seen him in real life but this pic is from 2023. That's more a swimmer's upper body than a gym rat. His legs must have morphed into solid bone

Mute the bad sound track for some vintage Mo. He is a wrist shot machine at his best.

 

[The Iceman]

Mo carries his weight in his legs.
225 lbs makes him the second heaviest Leaf. ( not counting Stolartz) Behind only Matthew freight train Knies.

I remember his draft year coming off a knee injury he had one of the strongest grip strengths in the draft. Not sure what that has to do with hockey but….

 

[darrylsittler27]

The Leafs have only drafted well at one position, wing. They are just starting to draft well in goal. Tre is trying to fix the Defense but lacks the picks. Center is a void and the reason we even talk about re signing Tavares. Our prospect pool is weak and we don't have a first rounder again. There is no choice but to go all in and trade prospects because none of them will help in time.

The Leafs have only drafted well at one position, wing. They are just starting to draft well in goal. Tre is trying to fix the Defense but lacks the picks. Center is a void and the reason we even talk about re signing Tavares. Our prospect pool is weak and we don't have a first rounder again. There is no choice but to go all in and trade prospects because none of them will help in time.Its win now or go home.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Just looking at our drafts over the years, and I noticed few things.

Since 1963 (the first draft) Leafs have drafted 532 players, 441 prior to the 2012 draft (when we picked Morgan Rielly).

Of those, only 37 played their entire career with Toronto, and of those, only 2 (Mike Pelyk with 441 and Peter Ihnacak with 417) played more games than Karel Pilar with 90.

Of all the defencemen we drafted, only 22 played more than 400 games in the NHL, and only Al Iafrate, Tomas Kaberle, Jim McKenny, and Ian Turnbull played 400 with the Leafs.

Our most successful draft, at least in terms of games played, was Luke Richardson, with 1,417. We traded him to Edmonton after only 278 games as a Leaf.

 

[hullsy47]

well Leafs ended up with 2 recently In that department, Matthews and Tavares

Wasn't through development but there's other pathways. Vegas doesn't really care to draft and ended up with their 1C (Eichel) and 1D (Pietrangelo, Theodore) via other means

For a true 1D, Toronto has sucked at all possible methods

Smart gms realize great defenceman are as important as 3 forwards worth 40 mill

 

[Kurtz]

The premise of this thread is a bit wonky - the guys listed by the OP (Nieds, Pronger, Lidstrom, Hedman) aren't just #1, they're some of the greatest of all time.

If we're talking just a solid #1 dman, we've had several good dmen who in their best seasons would qualify: Kaberle, Morgan, Leech, Svehla, Muzzin. Shame the latter 3 didn't last long here.

 

[Kurtz]

To me a #1 D is a guy you play in all situations.

Reilly doesn’t PK or protect leads. Can’t be a number one IMO even though he may be a top 32 overall.

I hear you, but that would probably rule out several Norris-winning dmen (Karlsson, Subban, Makar, Fox, Hughes I think, etc).

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think that because of how rare the top pairing type defenseman are, the Leafs may be best served to try to have it done by committee. This would involve Rielly actually being a dynamic enough PP guy to contribute but otherwise, McCabe and Tanev fit the mold entirely. Kovacevic would probably pair nicely with Rielly if he hits UFA.

Otherwise, if Dobson is there and you can get him...might make Rielly expendable, I disgress...

They're rare, we might just need to settle for getting 4 really good guys that can play their roles well.

 

[1specter]

Off the top of my head, last time teams had an elite 1D:

Anaheim: Neidermeyer
Boston: McAvoy
Buffalo: Dahlin
Calgary: Giordano
Carolina: ?
Chicago: Keith
Colorado: Makar
Colombus: Werenski
Dallas: Heiskanen
Detroit: Lidstrom
Edmonton: Pronger for literally one year, before then Coffee?
Florida: None? Depends how you rate Boumeester/Forsling
LA: Doughty
Minnesota: Suter
Montreal: Weber
Nashville: Josi
Devils: Niedermeyer (2002)
NYI: Potvin? Dobson is good but not a "true 1D"
NYR: Fox
Ottawa: Karlsson
Philadelphia: Pronger
Pittsburgh: Letang
SJ: Burns
Seattle: N/a
St. Louis: Pietrangelo
Tampa: Hedman
Utah: OEL
Vancouver: Hughes
Vegas: Pietrangelo
Washington: Carlson
Winnipeg: Morrissey (?)

Seems like most teams have had one within the last 20 years except Carolina, Florida, Toronto, and NYI

so we do suck at it

Slavvin and Forsling are legitimately good quality #1s. If you have OEL for Utah/Arizona then their names belong on this list too. That just leaves Toronto and NYI, and even then Dobson has been pretty great for NYI.

 

[arso40]

I hear you, but that would probably rule out several Norris-winning dmen (Karlsson, Subban, Makar, Fox, Hughes I think, etc).

A lot of those guys pk too