Proposal: Trouba Mega thread Part V

[Say What]

I really disagree with that take, particularly in light of media comments that their is some disagreement about his hockey IQ, which may be adversely affected by essentially a lost development year.

At that point, Trouba involves some risk, and no GM is going to give away an asset that does not have some comparable degree of risk.

IMO, a GM trying to acquire Jacob Trouba today, will still want Jacob Trouba in April (as it pertains to skillset).

Why does anyone assume that come December 2nd, Jacob will just stop training/pursuing competitive hockey options. According to Kurt Overhardt, they have a plan in place.

 

[Guffman]

Guess this player:

8 GP, 1-2-3, 4 PIM

If you said Darnell Nurse, you're correct. Over 82 GP, that's 10-20-30 with 41 PIM- in line with what Trouba produced during his stellar rookie season, and a better pace than he's had since.

Now, I don't intend to suggest that Nurse is a lock to hit 30 points this year; on the other hand, he needs just 18 in the season's remaining 73 games to match Trouba's 21-year-old season.

It's a shame Trouba's issues seem to be geographical, or else a Nurse for Trouba swap looks awfully fair.

You're equating value of a defenseman based on how many points a player scored in eight games?

ROFL. Get out. Seriously. Get out.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

You're equating value of a defenseman based on how many points a player scored in eight games?

ROFL. Get out. Seriously. Get out.

It's better than equating value of a defenseman based on zero games.

I know Kev's on it, though. Any day now he'll actually make a trade... any day...

 

[Guffman]

It's better than equating value of a defenseman based on zero games.

I know Kev's on it, though. Any day now he'll actually make a trade... any day...

We have three seasons worth of information on Trouba, and it goes beyond simple offensive points.

Look, we have educated hockey fans here having a discussion. Don't muddy the waters with your inept trolling via simplistic stats.

Thanks.

 

[Goulet17]

Is it really a lost development year to an acquiring team? They'll still get a young player with four years of control, whether they get him now or next year.

What's more valuable? 22-year old Trouba who becomes a UFA at 26, or a 23-year old Trouba who becomes a UFA at 27? Performance in year 1 of a contract will arguably be the same in both cases.

The only person who is really out a year of his career is Trouba.

I think missing an entire playing year at a young age could potentially affect the development curve of a player. I believe that a GM would have the same opinion, at least in the sense that the GM may not be certain what he is getting.

I guess my point is that, while it is true that Trouba probably stands to lose the most, the Jets would be impacted as well in terms of the value of the asset.

I don't think it is a black and white situation where it simply affects Trouba negatively, but the Jets have no risk. The degree of risk may be different, but risk would exist in my mind.

I still think that the Jets could make a nice trade with Trouba as an asset, but I am not so sure that his value may be higher prior to the December 1st deadline rather than next June.

If Chevy perceives that teams are low balling on a potential deal by December 1, he will have to weigh the risks of waiting.

I agree that the Jets have the leverage, but I do think that it is naive to think that the Jets do not have some risk regarding a valuable organizational asset.

 

[clunk]

What even are the Jets' needs?

 

[ulf]

Waiting till after the season allows us to trade Trouba to a non playoff team and get a very high draft pick plus assets. I no longer trust Jacob or his agent enough to give them a contract. Lesson taught...lesson learned.

 

[Hunter368]

What even are the Jets' needs?

LHD, otherwise nothing really unless it's a clear up grade on on an vet player. Quality, not quantity.

We're loaded with prospects in all areas, LHD is the only area of need. Picks offer us no real value, older players no interest

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

We have three seasons worth of information on Trouba, and it goes beyond simple offensive points.

That's terrific. About the only data point that matters here, though, is that no team is giving up an identical player for Trouba- else, it would have happened already.

Winnipeg's best bet is to acquire a younger player who is trending in the same direction. All my comparison was meant to do was illustrate that Nurse appears to be a good candidate in that regard.

Look, we have educated hockey fans here having a discussion. Don't muddy the waters with your inept trolling via simplistic stats.

Thanks.

Like I said, I know my contributions are not necessary as Kev's On It. Sooner or later he'll have to exhaust his one trade per annum quota, and hopefully for Winnipeg fans' sakes the team is better off for it. However, based on his record to date, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Say What]

I think missing an entire playing year at a young age could potentially affect the development curve of a player. I believe that a GM would have the same opinion, at least in the sense that the GM may not be certain what he is getting.

I guess my point is that, while it is true that Trouba probably stands to lose the most, the Jets would be impacted as well in terms of the value of the asset.

I don't think it is a black and white situation where it simply affects Trouba negatively, but the Jets have no risk. The degree of risk may be different, but risk would exist in my mind.

I still think that the Jets could make a nice trade with Trouba as an asset, but I am not so sure that his value may be higher prior to the December 1st deadline rather than next June.

If Chevy perceives that teams are low balling on a potential deal by December 1, he will have to weigh the risks of waiting.

I agree that the Jets have the leverage, but I do think that it is naive to think that the Jets do not have some risk regarding a valuable organizational asset.

For sure, the situation isn't ideal for TNSE or the Winnipeg Jets. However, IMO, the Organization lost the most value it stands to lose (Trouba in another NHL Jersey); the day the 'request' was made.

IMO, the price has been set, for the absolute minimum return that will be accepted (not of public knowledge). I believe TNSE are in this for the long haul.

Without an NHL contract, the Trouba Camp are negotiating on their own.

 

[sureloss]

Kypreos on HNIC said he heard Jets ask from Boston was Spooner, Carlo, and 1st for Trouba which is too rich for the Bruins

 

[Guffman]

I think missing an entire playing year at a young age could potentially affect the development curve of a player. I believe that a GM would have the same opinion, at least in the sense that the GM may not be certain what he is getting.

I guess my point is that, while it is true that Trouba probably stands to lose the most, the Jets would be impacted as well in terms of the value of the asset.

I don't think it is a black and white situation where it simply affects Trouba negatively, but the Jets have no risk. The degree of risk may be different, but risk would exist in my mind.

I still think that the Jets could make a nice trade with Trouba as an asset, but I am not so sure that his value may be higher prior to the December 1st deadline rather than next June.

If Chevy perceives that teams are low balling on a potential deal by December 1, he will have to weigh the risks of waiting.

I agree that the Jets have the leverage, but I do think that it is naive to think that the Jets do not have some risk regarding a valuable organizational asset.

I agree that having a player sit out for a year will negatively impact his value. I also think we get more trade flexibility in the offseason.

So...do we get better trade value now or in the offseason? We can't definitively say since we're not in the loop. Do the select few US-based teams have the flexibility and the assets to get a deal done next month? We don't know, but I think we're agreed that if the deals are weak, we may have to wait until next year (or more likely, Trouba signs with us).

 

[Guffman]

That's terrific. About the only data point that matters here, though, is that no team is giving up an identical player for Trouba- else, it would have happened already.

Winnipeg's best bet is to acquire a younger player who is trending in the same direction. All my comparison was meant to do was illustrate that Nurse appears to be a good candidate in that regard.



Like I said, I know my contributions are not necessary as Kev's On It. Sooner or later he'll have to exhaust his one trade per annum quota, and hopefully for Winnipeg fans' sakes the team is better off for it. However, based on his record to date, I'm not holding my breath.

I agree that Winnipeg is not getting a Trouba clone. That said, is Nurse establishing himself as an upward trending player by having three points this season? LOL, no.

I would be OK having Nurse as part of a multi-player package... say Trouba + Armia for RNH + Nurse (i.e., you get the better d-man, we get the better forward but the lesser players have promise).

It seems irrelevant though since Trouba apparently wants to go to the US.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Like I said, I know my contributions are not necessary

That is an understatement.

Kev's On It. Sooner or later he'll have to exhaust his one trade per annum quota, and hopefully for Winnipeg fans' sakes the team is better off for it. However, based on his record to date, I'm not holding my breath.

Your first mistake appears to be expecting that a GM with a plan to build largely via the draft and to replace expiring contracts mainly in-house would be active in the trade market. It should really have been self-evident that a GM executing that plan would not be an active trader.

 

[cneely]

Kypreos on HNIC said he heard Jets ask from Boston was Spooner, Carlo, and 1st for Trouba which is too rich for the Bruins

I'd think long and hard about Spooner and Carlo. The first is overkill.

 

[Guffman]

That is an understatement.



Your first mistake appears to be expecting that a GM with a plan to build largely via the draft and to replace expiring contracts mainly in-house would be active in the trade market. It should really have been self-evident that a GM executing that plan would not be an active trader.

SAVAGE!

Gump, I knew I'd like your style when I saw your location. That's a default address I use a lot.

 

[Gump Hasek]

SAVAGE!

Gump, I knew I'd like your style when I saw your location. That's a default address I use a lot.

Ha! Thanks, that is an obscure reference for most people.

 

[CaptainChef]

Kypreos on HNIC said he heard Jets ask from Boston was Spooner, Carlo, and 1st for Trouba which is too rich for the Bruins

Sounds like a realistic ask. No sweat -- they'll come to their senses and realize that they need Trouba a heck of a lot more than any of those assets. If not, we'll still have Trouba after Dec 1.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Waiting till after the season allows us to trade Trouba to a non playoff team and get a very high draft pick plus assets. I no longer trust Jacob or his agent enough to give them a contract. Lesson taught...lesson learned.

And this right there shows the complaint dissonance in Jets' fans.

On the one hand, "Hey we don't care if he even plays at all this year. We are doing just as good without him" and on the other "Boy other teams are going to give us a great asset for him." Or "He's a whiny baby and I don't trust him" but "You better be prepared to pay us a big price for him."

You can't have it both ways, if it's a complete masterstroke of genius to be playing games without him and if it isn't hurting your team at all, which many are saying, then he isn't a tremendous asset on the trade market. And if he is a whiny, ungrateful, spoiled brat that you think your team is better off without, then nobody would want him.

 

[Pia8988]

Kypreos on HNIC said he heard Jets ask from Boston was Spooner, Carlo, and 1st for Trouba which is too rich for the Bruins

Would be down right atrocious for Boston. Not dealing Carlo. Kid comes in and plays top pairing minutes at 19 playing over 22 minutes a night and holding his own.

 

[robertocarlos]

What even are the Jets' needs?

Nylander.

 

[robertocarlos]

Kypreos on HNIC said he heard Jets ask from Boston was Spooner, Carlo, and 1st for Trouba which is too rich for the Bruins

I missed the beginning of it and all I heard Kypreos say was that Spoooner, a 50 point player, is available. It sounded like he said Carlo was not going anywhere.

 

[Stream*]

That's terrific. About the only data point that matters here, though, is that no team is giving up an identical player for Trouba- else, it would have happened already.

Winnipeg's best bet is to acquire a younger player who is trending in the same direction. All my comparison was meant to do was illustrate that Nurse appears to be a good candidate in that regard.



Like I said, I know my contributions are not necessary as Kev's On It. Sooner or later he'll have to exhaust his one trade per annum quota, and hopefully for Winnipeg fans' sakes the team is better off for it. However, based on his record to date, I'm not holding my breath.

Nurse is no were near what the Jets are looking for. Even the Oilers don't trust he won't continue to be a tire fire, that is why they went out and got Larsson and Russell.

 

[Coach Parker]

I missed the beginning of it and all I heard Kypreos say was that Spoooner, a 50 point player, is available. It sounded like he said Carlo was not going anywhere.

If I'm Sweeney I am offering the price:

To Boston:

D Jacob Trouba

To Winnipeg:

C Ryan Spooner
1st Round Pick (unprotected)
_________ (ask Chevy to write a name here of any of the Bruins prospects not named McAvoy or Carlo)

I realize that is really steep for Bruins fans and probably not ideal for the Jets fans given the talks here but I'm basing it off of the HNIC Hotstove reports.

 

[Viqsi]

And this right there shows the complaint dissonance in Jets' fans.

On the one hand, "Hey we don't care if he even plays at all this year. We are doing just as good without him" and on the other "Boy other teams are going to give us a great asset for him." Or "He's a whiny baby and I don't trust him" but "You better be prepared to pay us a big price for him."

You can't have it both ways, if it's a complete masterstroke of genius to be playing games without him and if it isn't hurting your team at all, which many are saying, then he isn't a tremendous asset on the trade market. And if he is a whiny, ungrateful, spoiled brat that you think your team is better off without, then nobody would want him.

Congratulations, you've successfully ascertained that Jets fans have a wide and diverse range of opinions as regards the Trouba situation, what it's like, and how it should be handled. It's almost as though they're all different people, right?