Speculation: Trouba Contract Discussion Part II

[Aavco Cup]

I'll try this again. It wasn't my point that trading Ladd earlier would have brought a better return. My point was trading a Ladd with a long term deal would have brought a better return than a pending UFA Ladd. This was something I argued on here a year ago. Do you disagree with that?
The reason it was brought up was a question about whether a bridge Trouba or a long term contracted Trouba would return more.

It's impossible to compare the situations (Ladd vs Trouba) because of their age difference and the fact that one was UFA and ine is RFA.

I doubt Ladd would have signed a team friendly ling term deal without a full NMC so I believe the return would not have been any better. In fact Chicago could only take him as an expiring player. They could not absorb a long term contract. There is no way he would sign a contract and agree to be traded shortly afterwards to a non contender Not in his situation. That's a pretty ridiculous idea.

 

[Gump Hasek]

freidman with another article in todaysslapshot.com saying trouba might get traded then again he might not. what happened to this guy. reported month or so ago that boston might offer sheet trouba based on bogus article. then reports soon after Detroit might go after him cause he's from there.

The one thing I do think is this, and I’ve been told this. Some teams that were trying to potentially talk trade with Winnipeg for Trouba… You know, when Winnipeg got Patrik Laine in the draft – they ended up second – it complicated the whole process. Because Winnipeg at one point in time was looking for scoring. Well now, they’ve got a tremendous young scorer. A guy who is going to be a stud in this league. So Winnipeg is looking at it and saying, ‘We don’t necessarily need that now.’ So a couple of teams have told me that Winnipeg getting Laine has complicated the entire process of getting a deal done there.

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/drafting-laine-complicated-potential-trouba-trade-talks/

If you read between the lines, basically what he is saying is that some teams have tried to talk to Chevy - but he isn't buying what they are selling. It comes down to what many of us have been saying on the trade board for months, that if the Jets traded Trouba - they'd need his clone in a return. Most of this trade talk stuff sure appears to be media-driven versus rooted in reality.

 

[Whileee]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/drafting-laine-complicated-potential-trouba-trade-talks/

If you read between the lines, basically what he is saying is that some teams have tried to talk to Chevy - but he isn't buying what they are selling. It comes down to what many of us have been saying on the trade board for months, that if the Jets traded Trouba - they'd need his clone in a return. Most of this trade talk stuff sure appears to be media-driven versus rooted in reality.

Chevy has developed a reputation of being patient and not making a move until he gets his price.

 

[Aavco Cup]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/drafting-laine-complicated-potential-trouba-trade-talks/

If you read between the lines, basically what he is saying is that some teams have tried to talk to Chevy - but he isn't buying what they are selling. It comes down to what many of us have been saying on the trade board for months, that if the Jets traded Trouba - they'd need his clone in a return. Most of this trade talk stuff sure appears to be media-driven versus rooted in reality.

That's not an article Friedman wrote though. It's a transcript of what he said on the NHL Network. It was mischaracterized in the original post.

 

[Thai jet*]

True

He gives up several million $$$ to do it though.

Generally speaking people go with 1 in the hand than 2 in the bush.

 

[ffh]

I don't think Freedman ever got into the offer sheet circus. IIRC it was a Boston beat writer.

if you look up 30 thoughts for june 2016 thought 16. he refrences hagertys offer sheet crap and that Sweeney is trying to get trouba like Vancouver tried to get benn the year before. and even offeres up scenario of how it might work.

 

[Gump Hasek]

That's not an article Friedman wrote though. It's a transcript of what he said on the NHL Network. It was mischaracterized in the original post.

I didn't state it was an article that Friedman wrote; it is clear in the linked article that it isn't. However, it is also pretty clear from what he is saying that the Jets aren't buying what others are trying to sell to them.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I didn't state it was an article that Friedman wrote; it is clear in the link that it isn't. However, it is pretty clear from what he is saying that the Jets aren't buying what others are trying to sell to them.

I wasn't saying you said that. The post you quoted implied that.

I agree with you on the rest. It even says the situation changed once we won the lottery. Perhaps a Trouba for Hall trade or something similar was in the works before that happened.

 

[ffh]

I didn't state it was an article that Friedman wrote; it is clear in the link that it isn't. However, it is pretty clear from what he is saying that the Jets aren't buying what others are trying to sell to them.

its not that he's buying it or not buying it . its that he love's spewing the rumor. then he usually qualifies it with I have no knowledge but that's what I think.

 

[DRC]

Damn it. I really do hate this crap. I understand if he wants to be in a bigger American city but come on. The jets have a bunch of his Michigan buddies and they hired his freaking brother. I'm not sure it would be so much greener anywhere else.

 

[Bob E]

First part. If he doesn't sign, what are his options? He will sign...he won't miss the whole year. I think Chevy will be strong like Maloney and won't cave like Columbus.

Second part. What if Overhardt hasn't moved at all?

Third part. Trouba is not eligible for any bonuses. Bonus money is only allowed for ELC and 35+ players or player returning to the league from injury.

First: as a RFA, he has options and one is not to sign long term. Like Frolik, he can work 1 year deals to UFA. If he wants out, I don't see him signing a long term deal unless it's a significant overpay. Keeps pressure on Jets by going to arbitration.

Second: maybe he hasn't. Talks seem to be stalled. Very possible situation.

Third: right. So his salary is fixed. If the Jets want to use him as they have in past, that will cost them to sign him. As odd as it sounds, if they have him play left side, on top pairing, and with pp time they might get Trouba's camp to move a bit on salary.

 

[Aavco Cup]

First: as a RFA, he has options and one is not to sign long term. Like Frolik, he can work 1 year deals to UFA. If he wants out, I don't see him signing a long term deal unless it's a significant overpay. Keeps pressure on Jets by going to arbitration.

Second: maybe he hasn't. Talks seem to be stalled. Very possible situation.

Third: right. So his salary is fixed. If the Jets want to use him as they have in past, that will cost them to sign him. As odd as it sounds, if they have him play left side, on top pairing, and with pp time they might get Trouba's camp to move a bit on salary.

Your plan in part 1 takes 4 years to execute. He also loses the finacial security from injury that a long term deal gives. He takes on a lot of risk. He also gives up $$ in the next 3 - 4 years to get there.

My point is why not sign long term and then ask to be traded? At least you get paid and have security while the Jets work on making a deal. Why does he have to take on all that risk?

 

[KingBogo]

The threat of making requests public is absolutely leverage, it can tank trade value and cause issues with fan support.. At the very least it puts additional pressure on the GM to get a trade done.

Given the way the Kane situation dragged until it became a distraction I don't think you'd see the Jets doing something similar again immediately here. The Org. position would be sign a team / trade friendly contract, do your thing on the ice, and we'll look for the best deal we can. If he really wants to be gone before UFA eligibility that would be the best way for him to go about it.

What leverage? If Trouba sits out I'm sure Chevy won't trade him, just like Maloney. Why should he? According to Overhardt they have not asked for a trade. I don't know what this leverage you speak of is. Why not just ask to be traded if that's what he wants? A bridge deal doesn't help with leverage....not for years.

Leverage is being an unsigned RFA and having an agent like Overhardt in your corner who is bargaining with Chevy and is also free to talk to every other GM to work out some sort of deal that forces the Jets hand.

First off I like Trouba and want him to sign long term and be a happy member of the Jets. I am discussing from the point of view of what if Trouba really wants out and what I think Overhardt's strategy would be.

Once you sign a deal your leverage becomes either polite requests, strong requests or public requests to be traded. Overhardt can only follow up on your requests with Chevy and cannot discuss you with any other GMs. While this is a type of leverage it is relatively limited and Chevy controls the destination and timing. This is complicated by what the Jets really need. A young promising defenseman, preferably a LHD. So basically a Trouba clone that shoots the other way. So you have to find a partner with a young d-man they want to part with. This is a very small market. True, Chevy would have a better chance if it was a real team friendly long term deal. All Trouba would have to do is forego a few million in future earnings to help that along. I imagine signing trouba until his late 20's at a team friendly salary with the hope Chevy trades him at some point would be a tough sell to Overhardt.

On the other hand Overhardt can point to past clients that he got want they wanted by fighting tooth and nail. ROR got paid well on a bridge and then was moved and got the big contract. Johansen who got the poison pill 3 year bridge with year 3 at $6 M. He got moved, will be making 6 million this season and is perfectly setup to maximize his next contract at age 25.

It is my opinion that if Trouba truly wants out Overhardt keeps pressure on and if he doesn't get moved immediately we see a relatively lucrative bridge deal to get Trouba playing and give Chevy time to make a deal with a fire to his ***.

 

[JetsFan815]

I think Chevy is right on this to play hardball. I am assuming Trouba is asking for more than Reilly or Jones. Chevy needs to stick to his guns and hold Reilly as a comparable, you simply cannot offer Trouba more than Reilly. People saying that they might be waiting for Lindholm to sign to hold him as a comparable. I don't think that's right. Lindholm is a tier above all the RFA d-men this summer and I won't be surprised if he ends up raking in the most money out of all of them. Either way I don't see it being relevant to the Trouba discussions (unless Lindholm signs a sweetheart deal for Anaheim)

Trouba+Petan (or pick) for Lindholm. Then sign him to a 7-8 yr deal, if they can.

I would be salivating at this deal. I'd even do something like Trouba+Petan+Burmi for Lindholm + capdump. Anaheim could use some cap relief. Sign Lindholm for 8x6.75million and you have your #1 LD for the next 8 years. But I don't see Anaheim trading 1 hard to negotiate RFA for another

Leverage is being an unsigned RFA and having an agent like Overhardt in your corner who is bargaining with Chevy and is also free to talk to every other GM to work out some sort of deal that forces the Jets hand.

First off I like Trouba and want him to sign long term and be a happy member of the Jets. I am discussing from the point of view of what if Trouba really wants out and what I think Overhardt's strategy would be.

Ehmm not only is that completely unethical, it is probably illegal according to the CBA. Very hard to see why any GM would risk it, not to mention there is little incentive for Overhardt to even attempt this as it sullies his reputation as an agent. Remember. he has to work with other GMs all the time. It's not like he rides off into the sunset after getting Trouba a sweetheart deal by hook or by crook.

 

[KingBogo]

I think Chevy is right on this to play hardball. I am assuming Trouba is asking for more than Reilly or Jones. Chevy needs to stick to his guns and hold Reilly as a comparable, you simply cannot offer Trouba more than Reilly. People saying that they might be waiting for Lindholm to sign to hold him as a comparable. I don't think that's right. Lindholm is a tier above all the RFA d-men this summer and I won't be surprised if he ends up raking in the most money out of all of them. Either way I don't see it being relevant to the Trouba discussions (unless Lindholm signs a sweetheart deal for Anaheim)



I would be salivating at this deal. I'd even do something like Trouba+Petan+Burmi for Lindholm + capdump. Anaheim could use some cap relief. Sign Lindholm for 8x6.75million and you have your #1 LD for the next 8 years. But I don't see Anaheim trading 1 hard to negotiate RFA for another



Ehmm not only is that completely unethical, it is probably illegal according to the CBA. Very hard to see why any GM would risk it, not to mention there is little incentive for Overhardt to even attempt this as it sullies his reputation as an agent. Remember. he has to work with other GMs all the time. It's not like he rides off into the sunset after getting Trouba a sweetheart deal by hook or by crook.

It is perfectly ethical and allowed under the CBA. Trouba is a Free Agent without a contract. He just happens to be restricted and not unrestricted which primarily means the Jets can match any offer sheet from another team. How would you think an offer sheet comes about if a players agent isn't in discussions with other teams?

 

[surixon]

I think Chevy is right on this to play hardball. I am assuming Trouba is asking for more than Reilly or Jones. Chevy needs to stick to his guns and hold Reilly as a comparable, you simply cannot offer Trouba more than Reilly. People saying that they might be waiting for Lindholm to sign to hold him as a comparable. I don't think that's right. Lindholm is a tier above all the RFA d-men this summer and I won't be surprised if he ends up raking in the most money out of all of them. Either way I don't see it being relevant to the Trouba discussions (unless Lindholm signs a sweetheart deal for Anaheim)



I would be salivating at this deal. I'd even do something like Trouba+Petan+Burmi for Lindholm + capdump. Anaheim could use some cap relief. Sign Lindholm for 8x6.75million and you have your #1 LD for the next 8 years. But I don't see Anaheim trading 1 hard to negotiate RFA for another



Ehmm not only is that completely unethical, it is probably illegal according to the CBA. Very hard to see why any GM would risk it, not to mention there is little incentive for Overhardt to even attempt this as it sullies his reputation as an agent. Remember. he has to work with other GMs all the time. It's not like he rides off into the sunset after getting Trouba a sweetheart deal by hook or by crook.

While you have raised some good points with the O'Reilly and Johansen deals, do you really think Chevy is going to agree to one of them?

I certainly don't, I am quite confident that if Overhardt is trying for one of those that Chevy will let Trouba sit out until he signs a deal on Chevy's terms and I'm sure he will have Chipman's full support. He's not dealing with a desperate underwhelming GM in How's on this time.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Leverage is being an unsigned RFA and having an agent like Overhardt in your corner who is bargaining with Chevy and is also free to talk to every other GM to work out some sort of deal that forces the Jets hand.

First off I like Trouba and want him to sign long term and be a happy member of the Jets. I am discussing from the point of view of what if Trouba really wants out and what I think Overhardt's strategy would be.

Once you sign a deal your leverage becomes either polite requests, strong requests or public requests to be traded. Overhardt can only follow up on your requests with Chevy and cannot discuss you with any other GMs. While this is a type of leverage it is relatively limited and Chevy controls the destination and timing. This is complicated by what the Jets really need. A young promising defenseman, preferably a LHD. So basically a Trouba clone that shoots the other way. So you have to find a partner with a young d-man they want to part with. This is a very small market. True, Chevy would have a better chance if it was a real team friendly long term deal. All Trouba would have to do is forego a few million in future earnings to help that along. I imagine signing trouba until his late 20's at a team friendly salary with the hope Chevy trades him at some point would be a tough sell to Overhardt.

On the other hand Overhardt can point to past clients that he got want they wanted by fighting tooth and nail. ROR got paid well on a bridge and then was moved and got the big contract. Johansen who got the poison pill 3 year bridge with year 3 at $6 M. He got moved, will be making 6 million this season and is perfectly setup to maximize his next contract at age 25.

It is my opinion that if Trouba truly wants out Overhardt keeps pressure on and if he doesn't get moved immediately we see a relatively lucrative bridge deal to get Trouba playing and give Chevy time to make a deal with a fire to his ***.

I just don't believe this strategy you mention gives him extra leverage. The next step would be to sit out TC and then sit out the start iof the season. At that point demand a trade publicly. Chevy will then say he has no intention of trading Trouba and let him sit. Eventually Trouba will be forced to sign on the Jets terms. Trouba will miss out on as much 20% of the first year of his bridge deal salary and won't be paid like he thinks he should. That's money he won't ever get back. He might be traded at some point due to poisoned waters but only if a fair return is acheived. This is pretty much what happened with Turris.

So yeah he could get traded but there will be a cost to his bank account. I hope Overhadt learned something from the Turris experience and the nuclear option is not in the best interest of his client. Johansen is different because Columbus caved and didn't let him sit. The Jets won't cave IMO.

 

[ffh]

if you look at what his peers signed for its hard to argue that he's worth anything over 5 on a long term deal. as a matter of fact I think overhardt would be happy with 5. my quess is that the fight is between 4.5 and 5. 6 mill a season left a long time ago.

 

[McDLT]

Someone who has time should make a "When will Trouba sign poll" with dates as the options. Winners take all the glory.
August is over - it's almost hockey time.

 

[Saidin]

Ugh, I just want this to end one way or another. The Trade area is insufferable...

 

[buggs]

While you have raised some good points with the O'Reilly and Johansen deals, do you really think Chevy is going to agree to one of them?

I certainly don't, I am quite confident that if Overhardt is trying for one of those that Chevy will let Trouba sit out until he signs a deal on Chevy's terms and I'm sure he will have Chipman's full support. He's not dealing with a desperate underwhelming GM in How's on this time.

I'm inclined to agree here. I'm fairly certain that Overhardt is trying his standard negotiating tactics to get his agent a huge deal or leverage him out of Winnipeg if the aspect of not wanting to be here is true. That is after all Overhardt's job and how he too gets paid.

At the same time though I think the Jets are going to show to be a very interesting organization in that they'll bend over backwards where maybe they shouldn't (Stu, Thorburn) but won't be manipulated in the same manner that Colorado or Columbus were. While Trouba is very good with solid potential to be that stud #1 RHD for a very long time, it's not like the Jets can't tolerate him sitting for a year. Sure it absolutely weakens the team but not really on right side. A surprising year by Morrissey and Trouba is hardly missed with a Buff-Morrissey pairing followed by Enstrom-Myers/Chiarot-Postma. Not as strong as having Trouba, but not awful either. It's a hypothetical of course. Really would be quite fascinating (and frustrating) to watch no deal happen over the course of a year. That would to some extent hurt the Jets in terms of Trouba's trade value (or not - see Lindros, Eric) but I think it would damage Trouba more.

Not that I want any of that to happen. I want Trouba to sign for six to eight years, marry a Winnipeg girl and speak lovingly of his cottage at Lake of the Woods for years to come.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Ugh, I just want this to end one way or another. The Trade area is insufferable...

It always is IMO. It used to have some redeeming qualities during FA frenzy and the TD but now the info comes faster on Twitter

 

[HannuJ]

Y

My point is why not sign long term and then ask to be traded? At least you get paid and have security while the Jets work on making a deal. Why does he have to take on all that risk?

THIS.
he witnessed Kane do the exact same thing - sign and then (repeatedly) demand a trade.
Trouba has a history of injuries. last year was clean but he missed 25% of his first 2 seasons. why risk getting injured while on a 2 year contract?

 

[CaptainChef]

freidman with another article in todaysslapshot.com saying trouba might get traded then again he might not. what happened to this guy. reported month or so ago that boston might offer sheet trouba based on bogus article. then reports soon after Detroit might go after him cause he's from there.

Not sure if this is the article you are referring to http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/drafting-laine-complicated-potential-trouba-trade-talks/

Written by Nichols but interviewing Friedman who says that the jets may have been actively shopping Trouba around at some point because they felt they needed more scoring, but getting Laine has changed all that.

 

[sully1410]

OK. ..one last time. For the cheap seats. Lindholm is not a tier above Trouba. So there is no way that we should be adding a blue chip prospect onto Trouba to get a deal done.

Yes he is a comparable. Probably one of the closet comparables right now.