Value of: Trevor Zegras this offseason

[Gliff]

It’s a little bit silly to say the Ducks have no motivation to trade him. He’s been replaced internally at C. His greatest value to the Ducks is teams perceiving him as a C. The longer he plays wing for the Ducks, teams may start to perceive him as a W. This could continue to go south for Anaheim aside from injury. Agreed they shouldn’t trade him basing his value on last year. But waiting isn’t necessarily good either.

Pretty sure his greatest value to the Ducks is being a 23 year old top 6 forward with top line potential.

 

[Ducks DVM]

It’s a little bit silly to say the Ducks have no motivation to trade him. He’s been replaced internally at C. His greatest value to the Ducks is teams perceiving him as a C. The longer he plays wing for the Ducks, teams may start to perceive him as a W. This could continue to go south for Anaheim aside from injury. Agreed they shouldn’t trade him basing his value on last year. But waiting isn’t necessarily good either.

This isn’t a video game sim. His greatest value to the Ducks is continuing to be on the ice providing a skill set that nobody else on the team has, and continuing to improve his overall play as he did last year. Replacing him with multiple lesser pieces isn’t best for the Ducks.

 

[John Mandalorian]

This isn’t a video game sim. His greatest value to the Ducks is continuing to be on the ice providing a skill set that nobody else on the team has, and continuing to improve his overall play as he did last year. Replacing him with multiple lesser pieces isn’t best for the Ducks.

Was never suggesting you trade him for spare parts. If another team looks at him and sees a possible C with 90 or 100 pt potential, you should certainly expect to get something good. He’s already been moved to W and told to re-work his game. Wouldn’t be surprised if his agent pushes for a trade to a C starved team. It’s a good problem for Anaheim to have though.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

This isn’t a video game sim. His greatest value to the Ducks is continuing to be on the ice providing a skill set that nobody else on the team has, and continuing to improve his overall play as he did last year. Replacing him with multiple lesser pieces isn’t best for the Ducks.

It's not so simple, his next contract is a major decision point for the Ducks, do they consider him a core piece and will give him the contract he'd demand, or do they then trade him, most likely for multiple lesser pieces. Especially if another team does see him as a C and is willing to pay up for him.

Ducks have plenty of cap space and decided to punt on the decision for 2 years, which is why the discussion is largely silly, but it is notable that they bridged him and seemingly don't consider him a C long term for them.

Edit: It's basically the Necas situation, where he's likely being traded next offseason cause he's not a long term Cane and wants to be a C.

 

[DavidBL]

It's not so simple, his next contract is a major decision point for the Ducks, do they consider him a core piece and will give him the contract he'd demand, or do they then trade him, most likely for multiple lesser pieces. Especially if another team does see him as a C and is willing to pay up for him.

Ducks have plenty of cap space and decided to punt on the decision for 2 years, which is why the discussion is largely silly, but it is notable that they bridged him and seemingly don't consider him a C long term for them.

Edit: It's basically the Necas situation, where he's likely being traded next offseason cause he's not a long term Cane and wants to be a C.

A lot can happen in 2 years. Most notably we have a much better idea who Zegras, Carlsson, McTavish, Gauthier and Sennecke are. Not to mention our young D.

 

[HabsAddict]

My biggest fear with Z and Necas is that they are pointing straight into FA and the highest bidder.

If a rebuilding team (like the Habs) is putting in a cost structure then these two wont fit.

Unless the guy is a 120 point superstar (Demidov?) i absolutely don't want someone whose only concern is to make sure they get that extra million versus team cohesion.

As a manager over almost 50 years, my first priority was to implement a salary structure. Of course the argument is that hockey players are not factory workers but there is NO difference in expectations. From sharing the meat to sharing the work load, perceived fairness in our tribal group is in our DNA.

Lastly, at 53% taxation the difference between 7.5m and 8.5m is negilible. A tiny bit of smarter investing will far outstrip that over the course of an athletes life.

Anywho...I'm glad that this conversation has become theoretical for the Habs.

 

[dracom]

My biggest fear with Z and Necas is that they are pointing straight into FA and the highest bidder.

If a rebuilding team (like the Habs) is putting in a cost structure then these two wont fit.

Unless the guy is a 120 point superstar (Demidov?) i absolutely don't want someone whose only concern is to make sure they get that extra million versus team cohesion.

As a manager over almost 50 years, my first priority was to implement a salary structure. Of course the argument is that hockey players are not factory workers but there is NO difference in expectations. From sharing the meat to sharing the work load, perceived fairness in our tribal group is in our DNA.

Lastly, at 53% taxation the difference between 7.5m and 8.5m is negilible. A tiny bit of smarter investing will far outstrip that over the course of an athletes life.

Anywho...I'm glad that this conversation has become theoretical for the Habs.

except Z has two more years and is still a RFA, Necas will be a UFA. Comparing their contract situation makes no sense.

also wow already planning on Demidov being a 120 point superstar before playing a single game lol. Hab fans overrate their prospects like no other.

 

[Miller Time]

except Z has two more years and is still a RFA, Necas will be a UFA. Comparing their contract situation makes no sense.

also wow already planning on Demidov being a 120 point superstar before playing a single game lol. Hab fans overrate their prospects like no other.

Are you not familiar with what a ? represents?

 

[HabsAddict]

except Z has two more years and is still a RFA, Necas will be a UFA. Comparing their contract situation makes no sense.

also wow already planning on Demidov being a 120 point superstar before playing a single game lol. Hab fans overrate their prospects like no other.

Did you miss the question mark on Demidov?

I'm amazed at the reading comprehension of some. More likely, you think you had some kind of worthless point.

As for Z or Necas, thay are both pointing to FA.

Are you not familiar with what a ? represents?

The ignore button is getting well used and I'm glad HF has it.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Did you miss the question mark on Demidov?

I'm amazed at the reading comprehension of some. More likely, you think you had some kind of worthless point.

As for Z or Necas, thay are both pointing to FA.


The ignore button is getting well used and I'm glad HF has it.

Z is a RFA at the end of his contract

 

[dracom]

Are you not familiar with what a ? represents?

Did you miss the question mark on Demidov?

I'm amazed at the reading comprehension of some. More likely, you think you had some kind of worthless point.

As for Z or Necas, thay are both pointing to FA.


The ignore button is getting well used and I'm glad HF has it.

why even bring up Demidov at all then? if not to suggest he could be putting up those points. not like Habs fans haven't suggested their prospects can be equivalent to HHOF players like Chelios...

And again, no Zegras is not pointing towards FA. RFA and UFA are different. you should know the difference..

 

[Miller Time]

why even bring up Demidov at all then? if not to suggest he could be putting up those points. not like Habs fans haven't suggested their prospects can be equivalent to HHOF players like Chelios...

And again, no Zegras is not pointing towards FA. RFA and UFA are different. you should know the difference..

Perhaps you aren't familiar with what a message board is as well?

Anyways, your gross generalizations about the fan base seem to come from a blatant misunderstanding of the very posts you are responding to... Makes for a very bad take.

FYI
"FA" in both "UFA" & "RFA" refers to free agency.

There are of course differences btw Restricted & Unrestricted, but as the Flames found out with Tkachuk, a player with 1 year left of RFA status holds all the power provided they are willing to bet on themselves. Obviously not quite the same leverage as a UFA, but considerably more than a player with several years of RFA status ahead of them

 

[HabsAddict]

Z is a RFA at the end of his contract

For your team sake i hope i grossly misjudged him and his probable future monetary demands.

On a more general note, i think that the NHL is creeping towards basketball'ization. Hopefully, it will never get there.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

For your team sake i hope i grossly misjudged him and his probable future monetary demands.

On a more general note, i think that the NHL is creeping towards basketball'ization. Hopefully, it will never get there.

We’ll see it’s still pretty unknown….

If he bet on himself and earns a 10+ contract next 2 years I’m fine paying him.

We don’t know if zegras wanted short term, or if PV wanted short term to see if zegras could take those steps to become a more complete player

 

[DavidBL]

I really don't underatand people's concerns about paying players their worth.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I really don't underatand people's concerns about paying players their worth.

Ya if anything Zegras should be more appealing becuase last year prob knocked some
Money off his next deal

 

[Ducks DVM]

Perhaps you aren't familiar with what a message board is as well?

Anyways, your gross generalizations about the fan base seem to come from a blatant misunderstanding of the very posts you are responding to... Makes for a very bad take.

FYI
"FA" in both "UFA" & "RFA" refers to free agency.

There are of course differences btw Restricted & Unrestricted, but as the Flames found out with Tkachuk, a player with 1 year left of RFA status holds all the power provided they are willing to bet on themselves. Obviously not quite the same leverage as a UFA, but considerably more than a player with several years of RFA status ahead of them

This is sort of a bizarre point. Literally 100% of NHL players are “pointing to free agency” under this definition, in which case, why bother to say it?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

This is sort of a bizarre point. Literally 100% of NHL players are “pointing to free agency” under this definition, in which case, why bother to say it?

I wouldn’t want a player that wasn’t trying to earn as much money as possible

 

[Miller Time]

This is sort of a bizarre point. Literally 100% of NHL players are “pointing to free agency” under this definition, in which case, why bother to say it?

Well, all players are "pointing to free agency".

Where on that trajectory they are is the point.

Do you not see why a player up for a new contract with 1 RFA year left is a riskier asset to acquire than one with several years of team controlled restrictions is?

The team control benefit of Zegras' remaining RFA year is better than straight UFA, but realistically, from a contract negotiation pov for the acquiring team, it's a negligible difference as both players/agents will be wielding the greater leverage (assuming they are performing at a high level).

The Tkachuk example highlights that risk.

I wouldn’t want a player that wasn’t trying to earn as much money as possible

Interesting.
I'd want players that want to win/be a part of a winning environment as their first priority.

 

[Ducks DVM]

It's not so simple, his next contract is a major decision point for the Ducks, do they consider him a core piece and will give him the contract he'd demand, or do they then trade him, most likely for multiple lesser pieces. Especially if another team does see him as a C and is willing to pay up for him.

Ducks have plenty of cap space and decided to punt on the decision for 2 years, which is why the discussion is largely silly, but it is notable that they bridged him and seemingly don't consider him a C long term for them.

Edit: It's basically the Necas situation, where he's likely being traded next offseason cause he's not a long term Cane and wants to be a C.

The team still had 3 years of control at a minimum, and none of the younger players have actually taken the steps to be a better center than Zegras at this point. He might excel as a wing, the Ducks might decide to run 3 scoring lines, McTavish may top out as a 40-50 point player, someone may have a career altering injury, etc.

The only reason to trade Zegras is if there’s either an upgrade at defense, and that would’ve already happened, or if the thought is that he’’ll not be a 60+ point player going forward. There’s no reason to think Zegras will be getting worse after we saw his play at the end of last season, so his biggest value is on the ice, not as a chip.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Well, all players are "pointing to free agency".

Where on that trajectory they are is the point.

Do you not see why a player up for a new contract with 1 RFA year left is a riskier asset to acquire than one with several years of team controlled restrictions is?

The team control benefit of Zegras' remaining RFA year is better than straight UFA, but realistically, from a contract negotiation pov for the acquiring team, it's a negligible difference as both players/agents will be wielding the greater leverage (assuming they are performing at a high level).

The Tkachuk example highlights that risk.



Interesting.
I'd want players that want to win/be a part of a winning environment as their first priority.

That point is 2 full seasons away. It is not a compelling argument to trade him right now.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Well, all players are "pointing to free agency".

Where on that trajectory they are is the point.

Do you not see why a player up for a new contract with 1 RFA year left is a riskier asset to acquire than one with several years of team controlled restrictions is?

The team control benefit of Zegras' remaining RFA year is better than straight UFA, but realistically, from a contract negotiation pov for the acquiring team, it's a negligible difference as both players/agents will be wielding the greater leverage (assuming they are performing at a high level).

The Tkachuk example highlights that risk.



Interesting.
I'd want players that want to win/be a part of a winning environment as their first priority.

So you’re going to be disappointed if Demidov earns 12+ mil?

Or is your expectations that they take pay cuts?

You can still want to get paid fairly and want to win/create a winning environment.

 

[HabsAddict]

I'd want players that want to win/be a part of a winning environment as their first priority.

AMEN!

Unlike the village idiot...aka BargainBin...Hughes has a firm grip on the Habs salary structure. He fully understands the perceived heriarchy of team and will not risk it without real cause.

I heard that part of not trading for that missed bullet called Dubois was his 8.5m demand. He did say that if a player was worth it he may go over, but Dubois wasn't it. That is why i put the question mark on Demidov.

Good managent is both rigid and flexible, fully understanding the needs AND the perception of his tribe.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

AMEN!

Unlike the village idiot...aka BargainBin...Hughes has a firm grip on the Habs salary structure. He fully understands the perceived heriarchy of team and will not risk it without real cause.

I heard that part of not trading for that missed bullet called Dubois was his 8.5m demand. He did say that if a player was worth it he may go over, but Dubois wasn't it. That is why i put the question mark on Demidov.

Good managent is both rigid and flexible, fully understanding the needs AND the perception of his tribe.

To be fair no one on Montreal has really earned big money contracts yet….

A lot of them I’d argue Montreal over paid a bit, with the idea they’ll play into the contract

 

[HabsAddict]

So you’re going to be disappointed if Demidov earns 12+ mil?

Or is your expectations that they take pay cuts?

You can still want to get paid fairly and want to win/create a winning environment.

Ideally what i like is that the 120 point player gets compensated...but in the context of the team.

Does it make a huge difference if a player gets 10 million or 12 million? First his net will be half that and second, his investments if done properly will dwarf that money.

I don't know how you are doing finiancially but im going to tell you in no uncertain terms that ther are 3 foundational truths to money. Making it. Investing it. Spending responsibly. Without the last two the first one is just a number.

Anywho...way past just talking about hockey.