Player Discussion Trent Frederic II

[UncleRico]

It's right up there with team winning percentage for an individual player.

It’s not even close to a comparison, but you are entitled to your opinion.

I’ve legitimately never seen winning percentage of individual players ever used. Teams frequently reference plus/minus and their analytics departments use advanced stats that have plus/minus in them.

 

[Over the volcano]

Is 40 points as a 3rd liner last year not a breakout year? Like what is the expectation from him playing 3rd line mintues? 50 points? 60?

Yeah but only if he also fights goons.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

Is 40 points as a 3rd liner last year not a breakout year? Like what is the expectation from him playing 3rd line mintues? 50 points? 60?

100 points 50 fights 22 crosschecks and life time supply of tissues for the Freddy haters.

I have never seen a guy thats been playing with different combinations all season as a third liner making 2m a season butt hurt so many posters. Its a beuitiful thing to read.

Better than the season so far. I hope Wilson goes easy on him tonight.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Absolutely.

Ignore the upcoming UFA contract for a second and just look at the current contract situation.

Mark Kastelic at $1.67M
Trent Frederick at $2.3M

Even if you reversed those numbers so that Kastelic has the higher hit. You'd pick Kastelic every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not even close.

That's what frustrating about Frederick. Kastelic delivers effort and physicality every single shift. I refuse to believe Frederick can't do the exact same -- but for some unknown reason he does not.

Maybe those concussions he took early in his career have taken a toll? Regardless, I'd trade him and get some assets back.

Not many have that kind of engine.

Usually, it's only the players that had to play that way to make it to the NHL in the first place.

 

[BruinDust]

What happened? Did the "dumb stat for dumb people" comment get removed by the mods?

Like most stats, they are better understood when given context. You'll have games where a player plays extremely well, and still ends up on the minus side of the ledger. and games where a players is dogshit and ends up a plus. But when those numbers are smoothed out as the sample size gets larger, if a player is a minus player over a sizable sample when compared to other players on his team, you can be darn sure it means something.

How long has plus/minus been tracked now? 40 years? 50? Used by many a former player now a coach or manager. Former players who know exactly how it feels when they come out of a game on the minus side of the ledger if they take any pride in being well-rounded players who contribute in all facets of the game. To them, you can be darn sure it matters.

 

[Over the volcano]

100 points 50 fights 22 crosschecks and life time supply of tissues for the Freddy haters.

I have never seen a guy thats been playing with different combinations all season as a third liner making 2m a season butt hurt so many posters. Its a beuitiful thing to read.

Better than the season so far. I hope Wilson goes easy on him tonight.

They should spot him a +4 for taking a regular shift between Wahlstrom and Brazzeau.

 

[UncleRico]

What happened? Did the "dumb stat for dumb people" comment get removed by the mods?

Like most stats, they are better understood when given context. You'll have games where a player plays extremely well, and still ends up on the minus side of the ledger. and games where a players is dogshit and ends up a plus. But when those numbers are smoothed out as the sample size gets larger, if a player is a minus player over a sizable sample when compared to other players on his team, you can be darn sure it means something.

How long has plus/minus been tracked now? 40 years? 50? Used by many a former player now a coach or manager. Former players who know exactly how it feels when they come out of a game on the minus side of the ledger if they take any pride in being well-rounded players who contribute in all facets of the game. To them, you can be darn sure it matters.

Didn’t get removed by the moss. It got edited by the OP and deleted haha

 

[Over the volcano]

Didn’t get removed by the moss. It got edited by the OP and deleted haha

No point in being needlessly argumentative. It's a dumb stat -way too separated from the individual play it supposedly describes.

 

[PB37]

In regards to plus/minus, both George McPhee and Brian Burke have called it a usless and misleading stat. David Poille said it on was an arbitary statistic. Lou Lam has tried to get the NHL to remove the tracking on it.

I'm sure it has its fans and teams do track it but how seriously they take the data by itself if i had to guess, is minimal. I read an article a few years ago about how there's less importance of the stat when brought up in arbitration hearings and there's more focus on advanced analytics.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

They should spot him a +4 for taking a regular shift between Wahlstrom and Brazzeau.

Or put him in Coyles spot or with players that know what end of the stick to use

 

[Over the volcano]

Or put him in Coyles spot or with players that know what end of the stick to use

They knew when they drafted him that his potential was "bottom six". Cant bump him up.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

I’m trying to remember the plus/minus truthers using their favorite stat to defend Matt Grzeclyk in 2023 when he was a +46 and second in the entire NHL, but I’m coming up empty.

 

[LouJersey]

Has there ever been a bigger fan club for a more mediocre Bruin in history?

Where is the extension for this vital piece?

 

[danpantz]

Is 40 points as a 3rd liner last year not a breakout year? Like what is the expectation from him playing 3rd line mintues? 50 points? 60?

40 points in the regular season is good and all but when he disappears come playoff time every year, that’s where my issue with the player comes in.

 

[DKH]

Has there ever been a bigger fan club for a more mediocre Bruin in history?

I like him but he’s a third liner and I would draw line a 4x4 if even that

doesn’t play either special teams

Perplexing case

 

[BruinDust]

I’m trying to remember the plus/minus truthers using their favorite stat to defend Matt Grzeclyk in 2023 when he was a +46 and second in the entire NHL, but I’m coming up empty.

Who cares where he ranked in the entire NHL, how did he compare to the rest of his team?

Oh wait, that team was a combined +127. Can we take anything from the fact that Patrice Bergeron was the top plus/minus forward on that team at +35? Or are we only allowed to use it when it comes to Matt Gryz? Did Bergeron's +35 have nothing to do with his own individual performance?

At least the plus/minus truthers can defend the statistic without resorting to insults.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

In regards to plus/minus, both George McPhee and Brian Burke have called it a usless and misleading stat. David Poille said it on was an arbitary statistic. Lou Lam has tried to get the NHL to remove the tracking on it.

I'm sure it has its fans and teams do track it but how seriously they take the data by itself if i had to guess, is minimal. I read an article a few years ago about how there's less importance of the stat when brought up in arbitration hearings and there's more focus on advanced analytics.

I take +/- with a grain of salt.
But do feel it has it's place.
Feel most of Freddys minus have been at 5 on 5. Don't think he's out there much with the goalie pulled trying to tie the game.

 

[LouJersey]

I like him but he’s a third liner and I would draw line a 4x4 if even that

doesn’t play either special teams

Perplexing case

I would do 4/14 tops. He wil get a better offer on July 1. Gotta deal him when you can.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Absolutely.

Ignore the upcoming UFA contract for a second and just look at the current contract situation.

Mark Kastelic at $1.67M
Trent Frederick at $2.3M

Even if you reversed those numbers so that Kastelic has the higher hit. You'd pick Kastelic every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not even close.

That's what frustrating about Frederick. Kastelic delivers effort and physicality every single shift. I refuse to believe Frederick can't do the exact same -- but for some unknown reason he does not.

Maybe those concussions he took early in his career have taken a toll? Regardless, I'd trade him and get some assets back.

I like Kastelic, and would agree he has outplayed Frederic so far this season, but you look at last season's Frederic, and Kastelic is not in that class of player, not close

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Who cares where he ranked in the entire NHL, how did he compare to the rest of his team?

Oh wait, that team was a combined +127. Can we take anything from the fact that Patrice Bergeron was the top plus/minus forward on that team at +35? Or are we only allowed to use it when it comes to Matt Gryz? Did Bergeron's +35 have nothing to do with his own individual performance?

At least the plus/minus truthers can defend the statistic without resorting to insults.

Only one player was higher on his team. So from a relative basis, he was the second best Bruin that year, when it comes to whatever you’re trying to measure with this archaic stat. But no one ever used it in his favor then - though they were quick to use his playoff plus/minus even when every minus was explained (like Bertuzzi’s pizza he tossed off the wall when Grizz was nowhere near the play).

 

[DKH]

I would do 4/14 tops. He wil get a better offer on July 1. Gotta deal him when you can.

Yup unless he gets uber hot

 

[BruinDust]

Only one player was higher on his team. So from a relative basis, he was the second best Bruin that year, when it comes to whatever you’re trying to measure with this archaic stat. But no one ever used it in his favor then - though they were quick to use his playoff plus/minus even when every minus was explained (like Bertuzzi’s pizza he tossed off the wall when Grizz was nowhere near the play).

No one said that about Gryz, and no one here has said Frederic has been the worst Bruin either despite the vitriol towards this player.

It's a viable stat with an adequate sample size and the proper context (i.e. when compared to his own team) It's not and has never been the be-all, end-all in player evaluation.

Problem with playoff plus/minus in a given year is the small sample size.

 

[LouJersey]

Only one player was higher on his team. So from a relative basis, he was the second best Bruin that year, when it comes to whatever you’re trying to measure with this archaic stat. But no one ever used it in his favor then - though they were quick to use his playoff plus/minus even when every minus was explained (like Bertuzzi’s pizza he tossed off the wall when Grizz was nowhere near the play).

Amazing Bruins lore that Bertuzzi is responsible for Matty Ice's abysmal playoffs in his career, Still no idea why Gryz didnt try to block Verhaeges shot instead of turning side ways in that OT. Hakuna Matata.

Back to Freddy, what type extension are you inking him to?

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

No one said that about Gryz, and no one here has said Frederic has been the worst Bruin either despite the vitriol towards this player.

It's a viable stat with an adequate sample size. It's not and has never been the be-all, end-all in player evaluation.

If it’s a viable stat, then why did no one use it to praise Grizz when he was on the ice for over a third of the team’s plus/minus total?

Without looking, who leads the Bruins in plus/minus this year?

 

[LouJersey]

No one said that about Gryz, and no one here has said Frederic has been the worst Bruin either despite the vitriol towards this player.

It's a viable stat with an adequate sample size and the proper context (i.e. when compared to his own team) It's not and has never been the be-all, end-all in player evaluation.

Problem with playoff plus/minus in a given year is the small sample size.

It's not like you can't point to basically every other stat he has as being horrible. Even his PDO and goalies save percentage while hes on the ice is terrible.