Management Travis Green [Head Coach]

[Sens of Anarchy]

so, it's an interesting question,

on the one hand, we were 13 pts out of a playoff spot this year, so there's a ways to go.

On the other hand, goaltending was about as bad as it gets, and presumably the org is going to shore up the roster (RHD...) so we'll have a better built roster. We also shouldn't see Pinto suspended for half the season, and if we're lucky, should get healthier seasons from Chabot and Norris.

It's also worth noting we were only 6 pts out the year before.

I don't think the team is counting on playoffs next year, nor should they, but I do think they should expect this team to compete for a wild card spot. We were a 90 pts team over the second half of the year, the slow start under DJ did killed us, and we arguably had a soft start to the schedule. I think the team made progress under Martin, and while they still have a ways to go, I don't see us as all that different from Detroit, still not a great team, but we know what needs to be addressed, and if we address it we should be competitive for that wild card spot.

what were we the year before and the year before that in the 2nd half. We've been through the 2nd half.. ready to compete next year for a couple of years now

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

How many more losing seasons do you think Tkachuk lives with before looking to move on?

This paints a picture of his first meaningfull NHL game being in his 8th or 9th season, which is basically half a career.

Tkachuk is either on board or not That question should be considered.... Dorion fooked us with the moves he made that did not pan out. We ended up with flawed construction and a shallow farm system. Now it has to be about some changes and rebuilding the prospect pool .. if we deviate from that now we are setting our selves up for a world of hurt that will take even longer to recover.

 

[Micklebot]

what were we the year before and the year before that in the 2nd half. We've been through the 2nd half.. ready to compete next year for a couple of years now

Sure, our poor starts have been a bit of a trend, the question I have is why did we start poor and are the same conditions that led to our poor starts still present.

Can't control health, but losing Norris two years ago 5 games in Chabot for most of the first half this year and Pinto to a suspension, I think those are unlikely to repeat, and played a big role in our poor starts.

Maybe this will be the year we start strong and have a poor finish, you know, just to mix things up.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Oooo. This is good. Some people steal because it's there, others because they feel they are owed so they take it. Now this is stuff they are taking. Bosses, some of them anyway, are surprised when presented with the idea that hours worked can be stolen. You paid employee H for 8 hrs...but H takes a 15 minute smoke brake every hour.....you paid H to smoke for 2 hours. Well...errr. That's not really stealing. It's your money and H's coworkers brakes... That's up to you. I got this! Lol.

Yes, I think that's a pretty applicable description. We've had a couple egregious examples, unfortunately. One of them was over fifty grand by the end. Inexcusable on our part, but the lengths she was going to were pretty crazy.

Don't even get me started on smokers. The amount of them I have worked with that feel like extra breaks are just their right is pretty mind blowing.

Tkachuk is either on board or not That question should be considered.... Dorion fooked us with the moves he made that did not pan out. We ended up with flawed construction and a shallow farm system. Now it has to be about some changes and rebuilding the prospect pool .. if we deviate from that now we are setting our selves up for a world of hurt that will take even longer to recover.

I agree. That's a good way to put it. He's either in or he's out and the reason they are where they are is primarily from Dorion's doing. I don't mean to post it like fear mongering, because I've seen that, but I think it's a legit question to ask at this stage. 6 Losing seasons is a lot. 7 or 8, and I'm asking out, personally speaking. That's half my career without playing 1 meaningful game.

He's only 24, but at the same time, I think we're running out of runway if things go sideways under Green. If there's progress, I'm optimistic it'll be fine, but if shit looks awful by December again, I think that will become a story.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

How many more losing seasons do you think Tkachuk lives with before looking to move on?

This paints a picture of his first meaningfull NHL game being in his 8th or 9th season, which is basically half a career.

Well the Canucks have an older core that is finally playing meaningful games for the first time (outside of the bubble). Buffalo also has an older core that hasn't done anything yet.

But Tkachuk and his family a different case. This season might actually be make or break for his future here. Once that NMC kicks in next summer it could get ugly.

But Vancouver, and even Buffalo, are in a way better position than we are when it comes to goaltending. Get that shit fixed already. The only thing I care about in the offseason at this point.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well the Canucks have an older core that is finally playing meaningful games for the first time (outside of the bubble). Buffalo also has an older core that hasn't done anything yet.

But Tkachuk and his family a different case. This season might actually be make or break for his future here. Once that NMC kicks in next summer it could get ugly.

But Vancouver, and even Buffalo, are in a way better position than we are when it comes to goaltending. Get that shit fixed already. The only thing I care about in the offseason at this point.

Interesting comparables. I looked up Hughes and Pettersson and they're both in season 6 in the NHL this year, same as Tkachuk. If they hadn't started winning this year and were shit again, I have to wonder if Pettersson would have one foot out the door by now. It seems like it was heading that direction. Doubt the contract would have been as easy at minimum. Another losing season and other guys like Hughes I'd bet would have started the conversation.

I think it's fair. If things don't turn around under Green to the point they're at least battling for a spot, and Tkachuk asked to be moved, I wouldn't hold any ill will against him. His career is a third over and not one game that meant anything. That's gotta be tough as you see the organization having to re-tool the failed rebuild.

It's a tough spot. The org. can't fast forward anything, but I do think they can't go back to the drawing board with say 2 more seasons on the outside looking in.

 

[chipsens]

Gallant had a record of 94-106-4-20 in his first few years as an NHL head coach, a .473 pts%. Green's current pts%, .473%, coincidence???

Jacques Martin had a 107-131-42 record in his first 280 games as a HC
Rick Tochett had a 178-200-60 record when Vancouver hired him.
Bowness started his HC career 164-317-59

Sometimes a coach has a bad record because of circumstances rather than their abilities. That's why I don't put a lot of stock into how a coaches first stop went record wise.

Over his total coaching career (705 games), Gallant won 369, and lost only 262. During his last 3yrs w Knights & NYR his winning% was over 0.600

Green is nowhere close...re actual coaching performance by the #s. (I know ur talking about Green having potential for greatness, not his performance so far)

Picking a (better) coach is now irrelevant. We "got our guy" :p

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Over his total coaching career (705 games), Gallant won 369, and lost only 262. During his last 3yrs w Knights & NYR his winning% was over 0.600

Green is nowhere close...re actual coaching performance by the #s. (I know ur talking about Green having potential for greatness, not his performance so far)

Picking a (better) coach is now irrelevant. We "got our guy" :p

Green has coached fewer games than those coaches. So, it could be better to compare coaches in the earlier parts of their careers. If you look at Berube’s, Deboer’s & Tochets record in their first 250 games, they were below a .500 win percentage. This was pointed out by Mendes.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Green has coached fewer games than those coaches. So, it could be better to compare coaches in the earlier parts of their careers. If you look at Berube’s, Deboer’s & Tochets record in their first 250 games, they were below a .500 win percentage. This was pointed out by Mendes.

Its still shallow analysis .. go to hockeydb.. see %'s confirm narrative

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Green has coached fewer games than those coaches. So, it could be better to compare coaches in the earlier parts of their careers. If you look at Berube’s, Deboer’s & Tochets record in their first 250 games, they were below a .500 win percentage. This was pointed out by Mendes.

Sure, but there’s a time and place for risk taking, not when you’re in danger of losing your captain in a year’s time.

Same could be said about Dallas Eakins’ career. Would you have that same reaction if we hired him?

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, but there’s a time and place for risk taking, not when you’re in danger of losing your captain in a year’s time.

There's always risk though, Boudreau had a fantastic record, but didn't really pan out with Min or Van. Keefe has a great record, if it had been DJ Smith taking over for Babcock and Keefe coming here, how different would their respective records look?

Berube is the belle of the ball today, was he the catalyst to StL's success or just in the right place at the right time?

Honestly, I worry as much about guys that saw immediate success as I do guys that started with crap teams and don't have track record of success.

 

[SENATOR]

I would hire Keefe in a second!

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Its still shallow analysis .. go to hockeydb.. see %'s confirm narrative

Yes, I just relayed what Mendes said in a podcast. Mendes spoke about the initial 250 games. Not sure why he did this, but it might have been so each coach had more or less the same amount of games at the same stage of their career.

If you look at stats for Berube, DeBoer, Tocchet & Green for the 1st three years.

Berube .504%, DeBoer .418%, Tocchet .356, Green .437

I realize numbers/percentages will change if you use different timeframes or criteria.

 

[SENATOR]

Green just does not have any attention to detail in coaching. Any sane GM would notice it. And if he does not, he should be told by people in the organisation. It is not about the interviews - it is so stupid. It is about analyzing his coached games before hiring this hobo. I was watching Canucks and they looked a lot like us. Disjointed and disorganized. Green was playing a lot of players, who could score for him and be affective in his mind, ahead of the team structure. It never works. DJ ran down Chabot for us like a horse and now he is injured all the time. No transitional game under Green, no first pass, just damp and chase. It is just a horrible hire and it will affect the franchise for years to come. We will lose Tkachuk over this and may be other players. You have to hire the best, to keep the best. It is just a simple formula!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yes, I just relayed what Mendes said in a podcast. Mendes spoke about the initial 250 games. Not sure why he did this, but it might have been so each coach had more or less the same amount of games at the same stage of their career.

If you look at stats for Berube, DeBoer, Tocchet & Green for the 1st three years.

Berube .504%, DeBoer .418%, Tocchet .356, Green .437

I realize numbers/percentages will change if you use different timeframes or criteria.

I wasn't directing it at. I was adding on to what you were saying . No harm no foul

 

[DueDiligence]

I would hire Keefe in a second!

Of course you would. Now how many GMs would?

 

[Flamingo]

I would hire Keefe in a second!

In what capacity?

 

[Micklebot]

In what capacity?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

How many more losing seasons do you think Tkachuk lives with before looking to move on?

This paints a picture of his first meaningfull NHL game being in his 8th or 9th season, which is basically half a career.

How many more losing seasons do you think staios puts up with from Brady?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

How many more losing seasons do you think staios puts up with from Brady?

Ha, fair point. He'd probably garner one hell of a return too.

 

[stempniaksen]

I don’t think the criticism of the way Green “coached” the transition game in Vancouver is fair given the personnel he had at his disposal. There was no Sanderson or Chabot on those Canucks teams.

He’ll have to prove it here in Ottawa but theres a lot more talent here. It’s not just Edler and a bunch of rookies and scrubs.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Tkachuk is gone next year if we don't make the playoffs. If he asks for a trade, they don't have the leverage to tell him no, because once his NMC kicks in it will be substantially more difficulty to get a return. This is common pattern recognition stuff since a lot of what happens in the NHL and pro sports is the same story with different people.

If we miss the playoffs and he isn't traded by July 1st 2025 you can ban me from the board (or ban my other account, it's called Loach).

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I don’t think the criticism of the way Green “coached” the transition game in Vancouver is fair given the personnel he had at his disposal. There was no Sanderson or Chabot on those Canucks teams.

He’ll have to prove it here in Ottawa but theres a lot more talent here. It’s not just Edler and a bunch of rookies and scrubs.

He literally had Quinn Hughes.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

We deride Dorion a lot but wasn't it Chabot and Brady who basically went to his office and told him to get them help? the only way Dorion could have is to use those firsts.

now if Dorion doesn't do it Brady and Chabot are peeved and the room is toxic, they ask for trades.

lesson: can't have weak leaders like Dorion and no way Brady and Chabot should be making demands on a serious team.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

There's always risk though, Boudreau had a fantastic record, but didn't really pan out with Min or Van. Keefe has a great record, if it had been DJ Smith taking over for Babcock and Keefe coming here, how different would their respective records look?

Berube is the belle of the ball today, was he the catalyst to StL's success or just in the right place at the right time?

Honestly, I worry as much about guys that saw immediate success as I do guys that started with crap teams and don't have track record of success.

Boudreau had a 50-40-13 record with Vancouver, with essentally the same roster Green had before getting fired. Had a winning record with Minnesota too.