Travis Dermott Discussion

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My bad, wasn't clear. I meant that if we replace Dermott with a league min guy, that replacement will probably be able to handle his minutes when everyones healthy but not top-4 minutes in case of injury. If we can get Dermott at league min then of course I'd rather keep him than go dumpster diving. If he wants 1.5-2 mil that starts to get tight with Hyman's raise + potentially adding someone with term this deadline.
Ah I see, i guess i agree with that. I really don't want to return to the Marincin days though, if we can get Dermott at $1.5m for a few years I think we can make it fit. Probably need to move on from Kerfoot and replace him cheap but I think we have that ability.
 
Yea he definitely does but ultimately if Seattle really wanted him, and he seems like the type of player they might pick, I wouldn't think the Leafs should pushback too much because ultimately they have to give up something. I also feel Sandin has a bright future on this team and he'll be knocking on the door for Dermott's spot, probably quarterbacking PP2 like Lehtonen would if he were in the lineup. Dermott could become the 3rd pair RD but I think the defensive makeup Dubas has constructed this season is optimal, with a heavier D in Bogo in that place that can fill a PK void. A lot can change in a year though with an injury, a sudden emergence of a player, maybe Sandin doesn't progress enough, or Rielly's contract status... so he's definitely worth holding on to as long as they reasonably can. If between him, Sandin, & Liljegren can manage pk without a bogo type of player maybe they roll with that. Maybe Sandin could be splitting games with Dermott and/or Bogosian like a lot of us thought Lehtonen would be this year too.

My personal guess is that the young guys on the cusp progress and create some good problems that management will have to make decisions on, when the time comes.
Lehtonen is actually a guy I could see Seattle wanting more than Dermott, so a sign and trade might work on that front. I still think there's some "what if" factor left in him that he could end up really good.

I like Dermott better than Lehtonen or Sandin for the role he's in, just really versatile and skates well then can play up when we need him to. Plus even though he's not big he is on the heavier side so he can throw weight better than those other options.
 
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I think there is the Jeff Petry or Anton Stralman fear. Does he have the tools just needs more time. I have no idea. Need a better pro scout then this couch potato to answer that.
 
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Dermott is a good player, he just doesn't seem to have the tools offensively to make a big impact and his defensive game isn't strong enough yet that he's worth succession planning around. 100% NHL calibre, probably around a #5 level. He's been slaughtering bottom pairing level competition his entire career and looked good as a #4 when called on. I see him having a long career as a journeyman 2nd pairing guy, maybe even as a Ron Hainsey kind of player. Happy to have him on the team, but it's cool if Seattle wants to take him. He just doesn't have the value or importance of any of our other top4, despite his upside.
 
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Dermott is a good player, he just doesn't seem to have the tools offensively to make a big impact and his defensive game isn't strong enough yet that he's worth succession planning around. 100% NHL calibre, probably around a #5 level. He's been slaughtering bottom pairing level competition his entire career and looked good as a #4 when called on. I see him having a long career as a journeyman 2nd pairing guy, maybe even as a Ron Hainsey kind of player. Happy to have him on the team, but it's cool if Seattle wants to take him. He just doesn't have the value or importance of any of our other top4, despite his upside.
The thing i find sometimes is he waits to long to move the puck. Looks a play off,then everything is gone. Thats when he forces the game. When he stops looking for the perfect play and takes the forward pass right away he will be good as gold. Just some hesitation in his game is normal. Other than that he’s played really good.
 
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The thing i find sometimes is he waits to long to move the puck. Looks a play off,then everything is gone. Thats when he forces the game. When he stops looking for the perfect play and takes the forward pass right away he will be good as gold. Just some hesitation in his game is normal. Other than that he’s played really good.
Yeah, his decision making process just isn't quite there. He's prone to hesitations when he shouldn't, or moving it too quick when he shouldn't. I often think he's playing like he's got ants in his pants, just a bit too jittery with the puck on his stick and afraid to commit to a risk. I still like him a lot as a player; as much as I just said about his mistakes, he doesn't actually make a lot of them. He makes more than enough good plays to be an NHL roster regular and when he trusts his tools he's capable of shining.

If he does end up in Seattle, I expect him to be one of the guys that they're excited about. He'll probably be an immediate top4 defender for them and I expect that he'll do well in the role. We're a really good team today, so we're going to lose a good player. If we didn't have 4 more valuable defenders, keeping him would be an easy decision. But we do and he hasn't shown enough at the NHL level that he's worth trading. He's a bit of an internal rental for the rest of the year (assuming he gets taken) and I'm fine with that. We have confidence that if Muzzin or Rielly go down for a stretch, or god forbid the playoffs, we've got a guy ready to go who can at least fill in and not look lost.
 
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He needs some time in the press box so lehtonen can get a real chance.
Lehtonen hasn’t done anything to warrant that for me. Sandin,Liljigren and Dermy are homegrown so they get the juice. Just haven’t seen anything from Lehtonen. Barabanov has come on with his comfort level and better play with more icetime there for a bit. It’s possible you are on the money. I give the chance to our homegrown prospects first everything being equal. Lehtonen hasn’t been equal to Dermott yet. I’d agree with giving Bogo a family day to rest and put Lehtonen in for him. Third pair minutes and a full green light for Lehtonen. We haven’t seen him unwind yet.
 
I just don't see it with Dermott, at least not top pairing. He doesn't have the offense, isn't that big, nor that physical. If he's the guy who goes in the expansion draft, it's about as much as we could hope for.
You may be right ... but always remember Carlyle was a smaller fiesty good skating defense who was not getting points and making a lot of bad reads here too ... then we traded him and guess what he won da Norris and became a team captain ... defenders take many years of development to groom into line#1 players ... maybe 1 of 2 becomes a solid defender maybe 0 of 2 and maybe if we are lucky 2 of 2 .. not even hockey people know ... but what we know is you need to train them shift by shift with a good vet to even have a chance ... we only started doing it this season
 
You may be right ... but always remember Carlyle was a smaller fiesty good skating defense who was not getting points and making a lot of bad reads here too ... then we traded him and guess what he won da Norris and became a team captain ... defenders take many years of development to groom into line#1 players ... maybe 1 of 2 becomes a solid defender maybe 0 of 2 and maybe if we are lucky 2 of 2 .. not even hockey people know ... but what we know is you need to train them shift by shift with a good vet to even have a chance ... we only started doing it this season

I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day, we can only protect so many people in the expansion draft. At this point, I think we've got to protect Holl, over Dermott, if we go 4:4:1 That leaves Seattle with a choice of Kerfoot (if he's still here) or Dermott. I mean, please take Kerfoot if that's the case, but I think you might agree that we'd protect Holl over Dermott for now.
 
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He had 2 major brain cramps in 11 minutes last night. One leading to a goal and the other to a fire drill in the defensive end,

Needs to cut that out of his game.
 
He has been playing sheltered minutes. So I haven't noticed too many mistakes.

I will say he is an energy guy, good teammate, below avg offensive and defensivly
 
I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day, we can only protect so many people in the expansion draft. At this point, I think we've got to protect Holl, over Dermott, if we go 4:4:1 That leaves Seattle with a choice of Kerfoot (if he's still here) or Dermott. I mean, please take Kerfoot if that's the case, but I think you might agree that we'd protect Holl over Dermott for now.
To me Holl has been really really badly exposed now that Muzzy is not covering up for him due to his face shield problem ... he just does not have a complete game on his own ... but it is a tough issue to manage for Dubie ... I am sure a deal will be done with Seattle so they don't take Dermy but we will see over time
 
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To me Holl has been really really badly exposed now that Muzzy is not covering up for him due to his face shield problem ... he just does not have a complete game on his own ... but it is a tough issue to manage for Dubie ... I am sure a deal will be done with Seattle so they don't take Dermy but we will see over time

Guys like Barrie, Gardiner, Rielly can look bad trying to get the puck. Once they get it however, they're pretty proficient at getting it out.
Guys like Ceci, Marincin, Bogosian, Dermott can get the puck, but need help getting it out. Every team has these type of defense on their club. Whey they take blame, a lot of the time it should be the forwards helping. I'd say Holl is a notch above, but he too can get overwhelmed by forecheckers on top of him. Think Holl looking bad, is more how hard a team is barreling down on him and how much support he's getting.
 
Guys like Barrie, Gardiner, Rielly can look bad trying to get the puck. Once they get it however, they're pretty proficient at getting it out.
Guys like Ceci, Marincin, Bogosian, Dermott can get the puck, but need help getting it out. Every team has these type of defense on their club. Whey they take blame, a lot of the time it should be the forwards helping. I'd say Holl is a notch above, but he too can get overwhelmed by forecheckers on top of him. Think Holl looking bad, is more how hard a team is barreling down on him and how much support he's getting.
Right now Bogo and Brodie are 2 guys I feel most comfortable with puck on their stick making a clean play and getting it out every single time with no mistakes ... Muzzy normally too but he can't find puck on his stick too many times with that shield on ... Holl has been solid except period when Muzzy has had his issues ... Dermy is still learning ... Rielly takes on too much risk at times
 
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Right now Bogo and Brodie are 2 guys I feel most comfortable with puck on their stick making a clean play and getting it out every single time with no mistakes ... Muzzy normally too but he can't find puck on his stick too many times with that shield on ... Holl has been solid except period when Muzzy has had his issues ... Dermy is still learning ... Rielly takes on too much risk at times
The breakout plan when there is an option with the Bogo-Dermott pairing on the ice is through Dermott not Bogosian, and he's definitely a better puck handler & passer

I would give Muzzin a break right now too with the full shield on, it really does mess with you when you're playing against guys who can see the puck in your feet and you can't
 
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The breakout plan when there is an option with the Bogo-Dermott pairing on the ice is through Dermott not Bogosian, and he's definitely a better puck handler & passer

I would give Muzzin a break right now too with the full shield on, it really does mess with you when you're playing against guys who can see the puck in your feet and you can't
I remember putting on half shield for 1st time cause i took a puck in da eye and holy sh*t I had to ask trainer to take it off after a couple shifts ... I could not eat pucks cause I could not see them ... imagine that full thing he has got on ... i can see as a big man defender myself he is trying to figure out how to use it in games .. i feel for him ... funny my son says holy sh*t dad is father time kickin in with Muzzy and he plays todays game ... and i LOL
 
I remember putting on half shield for 1st time cause i took a puck in da eye and holy sh*t I had to ask trainer to take it off after a couple shifts ... I could not eat pucks cause I could not see them ... imagine that full thing he has got on ... i can see as a big man defender myself he is trying to figure out how to use it in games .. i feel for him ... funny my son says holy sh*t dad is father time kickin in with Muzzy and he plays todays game ... and i LOL
agree, I got some stitches very close to my eye and lost a tooth so I put it back on and it's a huge disadvantage, you can see Muzzin losing it in his feet
 
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Dermott is a good player, he just doesn't seem to have the tools offensively to make a big impact and his defensive game isn't strong enough yet that he's worth succession planning around. 100% NHL calibre, probably around a #5 level. He's been slaughtering bottom pairing level competition his entire career and looked good as a #4 when called on.

I would have agreed with most of this two years ago but now? Dermott's play has taken a huge nosedive and he's already 24. He's making bad decisions, taking dumb penalties, and his offense has completely dried up. His last two seasons combined are basically a full regular season and are fringe #6/7 quality. I don't understand why they moved Lehtonen when Dermott's rapidly playing his way off the roster. If Keefe really wants him around, why isn't he playing him more?
 
I would have agreed with most of this two years ago but now? Dermott's play has taken a huge nosedive and he's already 24. He's making bad decisions, taking dumb penalties, and his offense has completely dried up. His last two seasons combined are basically a full regular season and are fringe #6/7 quality. I don't understand why they moved Lehtonen when Dermott's rapidly playing his way off the roster. If Keefe really wants him around, why isn't he playing him more?
I assume there is some loyalty there but also Dermott has played for Keefe for a long time now, so at least he knows the system. I find that he keeps wanting to speed up the game instead of slowing it down and it sometimes leads to bad plays; and like Reilly if he's not using his feet which are great things don't go so well
 
I assume there is some loyalty there but also Dermott has played for Keefe for a long time now, so at least he knows the system. I find that he keeps wanting to speed up the game instead of slowing it down and it sometimes leads to bad plays; and like Reilly if he's not using his feet which are great things don't go so well

Great observation about Dermott wanting to speed up the play instead of slowing it down. I sometimes wonder if there's a correlation between high IQ, high processor defensemen who have the confidence and smarts to slow it down vs a lower IQ defenseman who gets in trouble "overdriving" the game, pushing the pace to uncomfortable levels for themselves and then get burned.

I look at Brodie and think if Dermott ever grew up into a quality defensive defenseman, this would be a great role model, but at the same time, he probably doesn't have the processing power to make that leap in development.

Seems like a weird moment where the Leafs rewarded Dermott with the Lehtonen trade, and that vote of confidence was promptly repaid with the Dermott/Andersen miscue.
 
I would have agreed with most of this two years ago but now? Dermott's play has taken a huge nosedive and he's already 24. He's making bad decisions, taking dumb penalties, and his offense has completely dried up. His last two seasons combined are basically a full regular season and are fringe #6/7 quality. I don't understand why they moved Lehtonen when Dermott's rapidly playing his way off the roster. If Keefe really wants him around, why isn't he playing him more?
I disagree with pretty much all of this assessment tbh. He's our #6 defenseman and has great stats for the role. A single high profile bad mistake in the last week doesn't actually change the fact that he's relatively solid. The "why doesn't he play more" is pretty easily answered by looking at who the top4 guys are. They're all better than Dermott, so they get more minutes.

He hasn't taken the step forward that we wanted. But nosedive? Not even remotely.
 
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Great observation about Dermott wanting to speed up the play instead of slowing it down. I sometimes wonder if there's a correlation between high IQ, high processor defensemen who have the confidence and smarts to slow it down vs a lower IQ defenseman who gets in trouble "overdriving" the game, pushing the pace to uncomfortable levels for themselves and then get burned.

I look at Brodie and think if Dermott ever grew up into a quality defensive defenseman, this would be a great role model, but at the same time, he probably doesn't have the processing power to make that leap in development.

Seems like a weird moment where the Leafs rewarded Dermott with the Lehtonen trade, and that vote of confidence was promptly repaid with the Dermott/Andersen miscue.
I never had to the chance to watch Brodie out west much, but he is the definition of solid, everyone makes mistakes once and awhile but he's just more consistently solid but not spectacular. If any prospect reminds me of him it's Lilly, and if he can become as good as Brodie I would be over the moon with this cause it would mean having a solid D for like 5 plus years maybe more and the Leafs have to start getting these kind of wins cause (Hopefully fingers crossed) we're not going to be a lottery team for a very long time so we need longevity from these guys.
 

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