GDT: Training Camp discussion - Rifai and Murray on waivers -- Steeves clears

[Maple Leaf]

Hoffman- Matthews - Patchoretty

 

[hockeywiz542]

Why the Maple Leafs are well over the salary cap — and the cuts that need to be made - The Athletic

Two moves I’m anticipating before the season starts will be Hakanpää and Dewar starting the year on long-term injured reserve, which will allow the Leafs to exceed the salary cap for as long as they’re out.

LTIR would mean both players have to miss the first 10 games and 24 days of the season, something that makes a lot of sense for Hakanpää given the extensive knee issues he’s dealing with. Dewar’s injury timeline is less clear, but given he’s yet to do much in camp, we’ll assume they’ll slow play his return.

Those two moves would bring the Leafs to within $1.07 million of the cap and needing to only make one more cut. The most obvious manouevre I can see to get compliant would be to place Conor Timmins on waivers, freeing up another $1.1 million, and using Marlies standout Marshall Rifai as the seventh defenceman.

Remaining cap space?

$30,033, or enough to easily afford a new Nissan Versa with some nice add-ons.

I’m not certain why capologist Brandon Pridham would leave an extra $30,333, but it could always end up being included in Pacioretty’s deal, which is awaiting some of the final cap machinations this week before they put pen to paper.

On that front, I believe it’s also possible Pacioretty gets some additional 35-plus contract bonuses added in, similar to the ones he had last season with the Capitals (albeit not to the tune of $2 million for playing 20 games). But those don’t necessarily have to count against the cap this season. More on that in a second.

Even with the injuries, it’s a good-looking roster to start the season, with some quality forward depth in the 13th and 14th holes to fight for minutes or replace banged-up players.

If this is how the Leafs start the season, what it does is buy them some more time to see how some players settle in. It pushes the decision on someone like Nick Robertson, for example, into the second month of the season, allowing Berube to play him in games that matter and contemplate if there’s an established role for him in the top nine or not.

 

[Sypher04]

well Domi was flipped back to center today, and Nylander back on RW.

With Tavares banged up things do need to shift around.

Also though it can't be to surprising that Nylander is back on wing seeing as he started 2 games there and didn't finish either of them there.

hopefully that's a sign that the stupid Nylander at center experiment that is tried every year and fails every year is being put to bed for another year.

None of this is accurate.

1) Domi and Nylander were both taking turns at center. They may flip the two of them around in game depending on situation so that makes perfect sense to me.

2) Nylander play virtually both entire games at C. He only didn’t finish the first game in that spot because we shortened the bench looking for a goal and they went to a familiar combination there.

3) Nylander at center has never been given a legit chance. It’s never failed; it was never committed to. We haven’t even taken a too short glimpse at it outside of maybe a few times. Keefe giving it one preseason game and ending it last year says nothing about Nylander and everything about it not being Keefe’s idea.

 

[Havoc]

Pacioretty is a must-sign. That's guaranteed high value goals relative to the cap hit. I don't see him missing significant time. He's way down the depth chart and sheltered nicely. Life will be easy for him here. At this stage of his career, he is the perfect fit for our needs given our cap space.

He can replicate Marleau's 27 / 20 season (20/20 will suffice) at a fraction of the cost. Getting cheap depth stats like that is huge.

We might see 8 forwards with 20+ goals this season. If your goalie faces the Leafs in your fantasy league, leave him on your bench for that game.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

None of this is accurate.

1) Domi and Nylander were both taking turns at center. They may flip the two of them around in game depending on situation so that makes perfect sense to me.

2) Nylander play virtually both entire games at C. He only didn’t finish the first game in that spot because we shortened the bench looking for a goal and they went to a familiar combination there.

3) Nylander at center has never been given a legit chance. It’s never failed; it was never committed to. We haven’t even taken a too short glimpse at it outside of maybe a few times. Keefe giving it one preseason game and ending it last year says nothing about Nylander and everything about it not being Keefe’s idea.

#1 real centers don't "take turns" at center, when was the last time you saw Matthews "take turns" at center? You haven't because he doesn't because he is a center.

#2 Nylander didn't finish the first game at center, and then barely started the 2nd game at center because Robertson was an idiot and pushed him head first into the habs player skate, thankfully disaster seems to have been avoided.

#3 that's a lie they try it every year it never sticks because it doesn't work because he's not a center, and for the record no, I don't consider Domi a center either but he's more a center than Nylander, but regardless 3C is a weakness.

 

[Fogelhund]

#1 real centers don't "take turns" at center, when was the last time you saw Matthews "take turns" at center? You haven't because he doesn't because he is a center.

#2 Nylander didn't finish the first game at center, and then barely started the 2nd game at center because Robertson was an idiot and pushed him head first into the habs player skate, thankfully disaster seems to have been avoided.

#3 that's a lie they try it every year it never sticks because it doesn't work because he's not a center, and for the record no, I don't consider Domi a center either but he's more a center than Nylander, but regardless 3C is a weakness.

#1... during a lot of power plays, and practicing power plays, with Tavares taking the draw. Also note a couple of years ago Nylander and Matthews took turns taking faceoffs, while playing on a line together.

#2 weird take on an accident, but par for..

#3 This is what the second real time they've tried it... and really, if you look at it objectively, long-term 2C is the issue, though you could say it's one of 2/3 issues for this year.

 

[ZEBROA]

None of this is accurate.

1) Domi and Nylander were both taking turns at center. They may flip the two of them around in game depending on situation so that makes perfect sense to me.

2) Nylander play virtually both entire games at C. He only didn’t finish the first game in that spot because we shortened the bench looking for a goal and they went to a familiar combination there.

3) Nylander at center has never been given a legit chance. It’s never failed; it was never committed to. We haven’t even taken a too short glimpse at it outside of maybe a few times. Keefe giving it one preseason game and ending it last year says nothing about Nylander and everything about it not being Keefe’s idea.

Ive seen centers play like crap full seasons without being put on wing. I want him to get 10 ordinary games minimum. And more if the line aint set. At least the duo.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

#1... during a lot of power plays, and practicing power plays, with Tavares taking the draw.

#2 weird take on an accident, but par for..

#3 This is what the second real time they've tried it... and really, if you look at it objectively, long-term 2C is the issue, though you could say it's one of 2/3 issues for this year.

How is it a weird take? it's objectively what happened.

I didn't say he did it on purpose, I said he was an idiot for doing it, because he was an idiot for doing it.

Just because Nylander didn't get injured doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid thing for Robertson to do.

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs notes: Will Joseph Woll get the season-opening start in net?

Joseph Woll hopes to emerge from a crowded crease to get the coveted opening-night assignment against the Montreal Canadiens.

torontosun.com

 

[Sypher04]

#1 real centers don't "take turns" at center, when was the last time you saw Matthews "take turns" at center? You haven't because he doesn't because he is a center.

#2 Nylander didn't finish the first game at center, and then barely started the 2nd game at center because Robertson was an idiot and pushed him head first into the habs player skate, thankfully disaster seems to have been avoided.

#3 that's a lie they try it every year it never sticks because it doesn't work because he's not a center, and for the record no, I don't consider Domi a center either but he's more a center than Nylander, but regardless 3C is a weakness.

1) I have nothing to add to this point beyond Fogelhund’s complete dismantling of it.

2) nowhere has it ever been suggested Nylander at C would mean he never plays any wing. Maybe if he’d played the last few mins of game 1 (down a goal) and not been put right back to center in his second game before leaving for precautionary reasons you’d have a point, but that’s not what happened and you don’t.

3) you’re completely incorrect here.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

#1... during a lot of power plays, and practicing power plays, with Tavares taking the draw.

#2 weird take on an accident, but par for..

#3 This is what the second real time they've tried it... and really, if you look at it objectively, long-term 2C is the issue, though you could say it's one of 2/3 issues for this year.

,

1) I have nothing to add to this point beyond Fogelhund’s complete dismantling of it.

2) nowhere has it ever been suggested Nylander at C would mean he never plays any wing. Maybe if he’d played the last few mins of game 1 (down a goal) and not been put right back to center in his second game before leaving for precautionary reasons you’d have a point, but that’s not what happened and you don’t.

3) you’re completely incorrect here.

No I'm not completely incorrect I've seen it tried every year, including in at least 1 playoff game, it never sticks because it doesn't work, if it did he'd be a full time center by now.

 

[Sypher04]

No I'm not completely incorrect I've seen it tried every year, including in at least 1 playoff game, it never sticks because it doesn't work, if it did he'd be a full time center by now.

1 game doesn’t qualify as a legitimate try.

 

[ACC1224]

Some Nylander to Center discussion here.

 

[notbias]

Yes he has had a year but it’s going to take a lot more than a year to turn the ship around. As firs as Matthews and Willy’s contracts it pretty hard to walk away from either of them as a new GM.
As far as Marner yes he made a mistake not trading him when he could but again that’s a pretty bold move first day on the job.
We will be paying the price of Dubas’s hubris for years to come

The spin that some of you have is hilarious.

He has a similar vision to Dubas, deal with it.

 

[SprDaVE]

Some Nylander to Center discussion here.

"Bad vibes at camp" classic baiting here

 

[ACC1224]

"Bad vibes at camp" classic baiting here

It got my attention.

I thought they were going to re-visit Matthews and Nylander arguing on the bench last spring, going for the 'beef' angle between the two.
After listening to it I'm not even sure what the 'bad vibes' are they are referencing.

 

[Fogelhund]

It got my attention.

I thought they were going to re-visit Matthews and Nylander arguing on the bench last spring, going for the 'beef' angle between the two.
After listening to it I'm not even sure what the 'bad vibes' are they are referencing.

I listened to it as well, wondering what was up. It was simply click bait. Bad vibes maybe being a few preseason injuries... that's all I've got.

,


No I'm not completely incorrect I've seen it tried every year, including in at least 1 playoff game, it never sticks because it doesn't work, if it did he'd be a full time center by now.

Every year? That's simply not true. Also, trying something for one game, and abandoning it, is no evidence something doesn't, and won't work. I mean that's foolish to think so.

 

[Nineteen67]

I listened to it as well, wondering what was up. It was simply click bait. Bad vibes maybe being a few preseason injuries... that's all I've got.

Did you hear them talk about 2nd line center?

The never go into a season or the playoffs knowing their lines and go in with their fingers crossed hoping it works.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

1 game doesn’t qualify as a legitimate try.

That playoff game wasn't the only time it was tried.

 

[Fogelhund]

Did you hear them talk about 2nd line center?

The never go into a season or the playoffs knowing their lines and go in with their fingers crossed hoping it works.

To me, that talk of the 2C was a bit of pandering to an audience, hoping to throw fuel on a fire. 14 points in 18 games the prior two playoffs is pretty respectable for a 2C. Last year sucked for sure though. Our whole team sucked in the playoffs last year, hard to point fingers at single players. There is no question that we need to plan for a 2C long-term though, time stops for nobody.

I think the 2C talk is premature and pandering... we shall see what kind of year Tavares has... is he still a 2C? Rebound year, or further deterioration in his game? I think you need to see how JT's play is this year, before concluding that is the major need.

There aren't many teams who have a playoffs rosters set in October... that's just reality. Nearly every competitive team is looking to add a body (or bodies) for the playoffs, so those rosters just aren't set. Oilers added last year, Panthers added last year... everyone does it. The cap is certainly one of the major reasons teams have to add at that time of year, everyone has a hole they are looking to fill, or upgrade.

Now, digressing from this conversation, I thought this past offseason was the time to make a change to look at the future. My favourite trade idea, was sending Marner to Seattle for a package that included Shane Wright... to try and get that future 2C... but, clearly something like that didn't happen... young cost controlled future 2C.

Hey, let's just hope Berube can have enough of an influence to get this group to do something in the playoffs....

 

[Nineteen67]

To me, that talk of the 2C was a bit of pandering to an audience, hoping to throw fuel on a fire. 14 points in 18 games the prior two playoffs is pretty respectable for a 2C. Last year sucked for sure though. Our whole team sucked in the playoffs last year, hard to point fingers at single players. There is no question that we need to plan for a 2C long-term though, time stops for nobody.

I think the 2C talk is premature and pandering... we shall see what kind of year Tavares has... is he still a 2C? Rebound year, or further deterioration in his game? I think you need to see how JT's play is this year, before concluding that is the major need.

There aren't many teams who have a playoffs rosters set in October... that's just reality. Nearly every competitive team is looking to add a body (or bodies) for the playoffs, so those rosters just aren't set. Oilers added last year, Panthers added last year... everyone does it. The cap is certainly one of the major reasons teams have to add at that time of year, everyone has a hole they are looking to fill, or upgrade.

Now, digressing from this conversation, I thought this past offseason was the time to make a change to look at the future. My favourite trade idea, was sending Marner to Seattle for a package that included Shane Wright... to try and get that future 2C... but, clearly something like that didn't happen... young cost controlled future 2C.

Hey, let's just hope Berube can have enough of an influence to get this group to do something in the playoffs....

The Leafs roster has never been stable and they’ve needed a top 6 player every season, amongst many other positions, since forever. Starting this season the same way, however they less holes and unknowns than past seasons.

If they become a contender, at the TDL they will be adding just depth, and at the beginning of the playoffs there will be no threads on this forum discussing who will play on top two lines, top 4 D, or goaltender, unless both are lights out.

 

[Sypher04]

That playoff game wasn't the only time it was tried.

These other tries you speak of have been few and equally illegitimate.

Nylander has never been given a proper run of games to determine if he’s capable of adapting to center yet people label a few games here or there spent in the role as failure anyways. It’s ridiculous. He’s never had the opportunity to fail.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[ULF_55]

You may be right, I do think there are a few more candidates than just Timothy though

You would think trading players to make the team better would be in a GM's job description, and every player should be available. Of course NMC and NTC do impact the freedom to make moves.

Last I checked the Leafs don't have the best center, the best winger, the best defenseman, nor the best goaltender in the league, therefore everyone should be available.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes he has had a year but it’s going to take a lot more than a year to turn the ship around. As firs as Matthews and Willy’s contracts it pretty hard to walk away from either of them as a new GM.
As far as Marner yes he made a mistake not trading him when he could but again that’s a pretty bold move first day on the job.
We will be paying the price of Dubas’s hubris for years to come

Treliving is not starting from a blank canvas.
Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Knies is a pretty good starting point.

Defense obviously, wasn't great, but Rielly was the only piece locked in.

Next year marner will be locked in, and Tavares will be re-signed to an appropriate contract.

Tanev and Ekman-Larsson are Treliving's long term signings.
Kampf and Domi are Trelivings.

We can accept, last year and this year he has been somewhat handcuffed by Tavares deal.

Everything next year will be on Treliving, and most of this year is.

Looking back marner was likely the correct pick, Rantanen and Aho would have been fine, but a stretch at the time. Werenski looks like a better option if you ignore his injury history.

It isn't like Treliving has a history of being a top GM, so not sure expectations should be that he becomes one. He doesn't have to be, he just can't screw up what he has, and step by step improve it.