GDT: Training Camp discussion - Camp now open

[Sypher04]

That playoff game wasn't the only time it was tried.

These other tries you speak of have been few and equally illegitimate.

Nylander has never been given a proper run of games to determine if he’s capable of adapting to center yet people label a few games here or there spent in the role as failure anyways. It’s ridiculous. He’s never had the opportunity to fail.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[ULF_55]

You may be right, I do think there are a few more candidates than just Timothy though

You would think trading players to make the team better would be in a GM's job description, and every player should be available. Of course NMC and NTC do impact the freedom to make moves.

Last I checked the Leafs don't have the best center, the best winger, the best defenseman, nor the best goaltender in the league, therefore everyone should be available.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes he has had a year but it’s going to take a lot more than a year to turn the ship around. As firs as Matthews and Willy’s contracts it pretty hard to walk away from either of them as a new GM.
As far as Marner yes he made a mistake not trading him when he could but again that’s a pretty bold move first day on the job.
We will be paying the price of Dubas’s hubris for years to come

Treliving is not starting from a blank canvas.
Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Knies is a pretty good starting point.

Defense obviously, wasn't great, but Rielly was the only piece locked in.

Next year marner will be locked in, and Tavares will be re-signed to an appropriate contract.

Tanev and Ekman-Larsson are Treliving's long term signings.
Kampf and Domi are Trelivings.

We can accept, last year and this year he has been somewhat handcuffed by Tavares deal.

Everything next year will be on Treliving, and most of this year is.

Looking back marner was likely the correct pick, Rantanen and Aho would have been fine, but a stretch at the time. Werenski looks like a better option if you ignore his injury history.

It isn't like Treliving has a history of being a top GM, so not sure expectations should be that he becomes one. He doesn't have to be, he just can't screw up what he has, and step by step improve it.

 

[Arzak]

Trade him now?


Also, we need the savage here. So the one that shell not be named (the one who can't handle open thread unless it's happy thoughts only) can sponge on it.

 

[Torontonian]

I wouldn't be opposed to having Cowan stay up in the NHL and play 42-50 games to help develop him, doesn't have to play every game.

Trading Lillypad for some draft capital is probably the way to go to help with their cap situation and getting the 3m off the books. It appears based off of practice lines for the D and with his camp, Timmins is ahead of him Lilly.

It's still tough to read on whose on the team, read an article earlier today it looks like Lorentz is getting a spot somewhere, and there's still Jankrok and JT to come back.

 

[ULF_55]

I wouldn't be opposed to having Cowan stay up in the NHL and play 42-50 games to help develop him, doesn't have to play every game.

Trading Lillypad for some draft capital is probably the way to go to help with their cap situation and getting the 3m off the books. It appears based off of practice lines for the D and with his camp, Timmins is ahead of him Lilly.

It's still tough to read on whose on the team, read an article earlier today it looks like Lorentz is getting a spot somewhere, and there's still Jankrok and JT to come back.

It is possible they are playing the wannabees to see how close they are.

Full time NHL players are full time NHL players.
AHL and lower ranked players are not NHL Players.

Trading Liljegren or NameThePlayer should be pursued if it gets the team closer to their ultimate goal.

Now the question might be would you accept a 1 and done go for it?
For example would you trade Cowan, Danford, Tavares, + for 1 year of Rantanen?
Or is that too big of a risk? Considering there is no guarantee.

 

[Racer88]

The spin that some of you have is hilarious.

He has a similar vision to Dubas, deal with it.

Please my friend if anyone has some hilarious spins it’s the Dubas supporters, deal with that

 

[Racer88]

Treliving is not starting from a blank canvas.
Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Knies is a pretty good starting point.

Defense obviously, wasn't great, but Rielly was the only piece locked in.

Next year marner will be locked in, and Tavares will be re-signed to an appropriate contract.

Tanev and Ekman-Larsson are Treliving's long term signings.
Kampf and Domi are Trelivings.

We can accept, last year and this year he has been somewhat handcuffed by Tavares deal.

Everything next year will be on Treliving, and most of this year is.

Looking back marner was likely the correct pick, Rantanen and Aho would have been fine, but a stretch at the time. Werenski looks like a better option if you ignore his injury history.

It isn't like Treliving has a history of being a top GM, so not sure expectations should be that he becomes one. He doesn't have to be, he just can't screw up what he has, and step by step improve it.

If Marner is locked in next year and Tavares is resigned with another contract even if the number is lower all we can expect is the same run it back result as the last 8 years

 

[LeafsFan89]

Treliving is not starting from a blank canvas.
Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Knies is a pretty good starting point.

Defense obviously, wasn't great, but Rielly was the only piece locked in.

Next year marner will be locked in, and Tavares will be re-signed to an appropriate contract.

Tanev and Ekman-Larsson are Treliving's long term signings.
Kampf and Domi are Trelivings.

We can accept, last year and this year he has been somewhat handcuffed by Tavares deal.

Everything next year will be on Treliving, and most of this year is.

Looking back marner was likely the correct pick, Rantanen and Aho would have been fine, but a stretch at the time. Werenski looks like a better option if you ignore his injury history.

It isn't like Treliving has a history of being a top GM, so not sure expectations should be that he becomes one. He doesn't have to be, he just can't screw up what he has, and step by step improve it.

We know Marner is going to get 150,000 points this season because it's a contract year. Unless he plays like Nathan MacKinnon come playoffs, I am in the camp of not resigning him to be honest. We need to allocate our salary cap differently.

 

[stickty111]

I wouldn't be opposed to having Cowan stay up in the NHL and play 42-50 games to help develop him, doesn't have to play every game.

Trading Lillypad for some draft capital is probably the way to go to help with their cap situation and getting the 3m off the books. It appears based off of practice lines for the D and with his camp, Timmins is ahead of him Lilly.

It's still tough to read on whose on the team, read an article earlier today it looks like Lorentz is getting a spot somewhere, and there's still Jankrok and JT to come back.

We don't know what the 3rd pair is. There is a chance Rifai-Lilly is the 3rd pair. Plus Benoit has played with the non NHL group and NHL group so not sure what to take from that. Lilly has played with the NHL group. Berube has also really liked Rifai.
Lilly was never in competition with Timmins either.

 

[ULF_55]

If Marner is locked in next year and Tavares is resigned with another contract even if the number is lower all we can expect is the same run it back result as the last 8 years

We know Marner is going to get 150,000 points this season because it's a contract year. Unless he plays like Nathan MacKinnon come playoffs, I am in the camp of not resigning him to be honest. We need to allocate our salary cap differently.

IMO:

Better get used to it.

They aren't letting him walk.

Not even sure there are going to be players worth signing if they had the $23mm from marner and Tavares.

 

[Doc300c]

I know people got mad at me before, but are we sure the leafs are not considering trading Liljegren if the right deal presents itself? 3m for a #6 doesn’t feel right. And Liljegren has value

Can't see Berube enjoying tape of Lil routinely losing board battles and failing to clear the front of the net. Against passive teams he looks great, any pressure whatsoever he looks a total liability. Good depth, never my top 6 come playoffs unless he finds another level.

Sunk cost fallacy for a lot of people i'd imagine. Hes just like another Sandin. Average in a lot of stuff, not elite in anything specific. Just a very vanilla player that has shown he crumbles come playoff time when games are tighter and tougher.

It’s almost like he hasn’t had a chance to develop properly and after his huge amount of playoff games I’m not really surprised. Being yo-yo’d for 3 years and all 11 games. I feel like if we move Lily he’s going to flourish elsewhere with better support.

 

[MMC]

Is Gillies still on the camp roster?

 

[Racer88]

IMO:

Better get used to it.

They aren't letting him walk.

Not even sure there are going to be players worth signing if they had the $23mm from marner and Tavares.

Sadly you are probably right as far as letting him go. It is very hard to change canoes in the middle of the stream. This will be the lasting legacy of Dubas. A decade or more of seeing the finish line but never being close to getting there

 

[Suntouchable13]

Sadly you are probably right as far as letting him go.

On this cloudy day, that thought is depressing haha. I don't know, it's going to be very hard to keep following this team with the same characters for several more years.

 

[Sypher04]

the “run it back” criticism has really just become “they didn’t make the changes I wanted so I’ll pretend nothing has changed”

I look at this roster and say we’ve improved areas of need; added versatility and balance to the backend, got one of the most effective goaltenders in the league last year (Stolarz) to replace one of the least (Sammy) - just need to see how he responds to more games. Our forward group is probably better as well. We also changed our nearly the entire coaching staff which is one of the most potentially impactful changes you can possibly make.

There’s been lots of change.

I don’t think there much argument that this is the best roster we’ve had in the Matthews era

 

[Racer88]

the “run it back” criticism has really just become “they didn’t make the changes I wanted so I’ll pretend nothing has changed”

I look at this roster and say we’ve improved areas of need; added versatility and balance to the backend, got one of the most effective goaltenders in the league last year (Stolarz) to replace one of the least (Sammy) - just need to see how he responds to more games. Our forward group is probably better as well. We also changed our nearly the entire coaching staff which is one of the most potentially impactful changes you can possibly make.

There’s been lots of change.

I don’t think there much argument that this is the best roster we’ve had in the Matthews era

In my mind the “running it back again” is running it back with the same core 5 players that can’t get it done. We have changed coaches, GM’s, supposed character leaders to show these guys what is required. We have changed the the 12-14 supporting players every dam year and nothing changes. How the heck do you see that as they just didn’t make the changes individual posters wanted

 

[Sypher04]

In my mind the “running it back again” is running it back with the same core 5 players that can’t get it done. We have changed coaches, GM’s, supposed character leaders to show these guys what is required. We have changed the the 12-14 supporting players every dam year and nothing changes. How the heck do you see that as they just didn’t make the changes individual posters wanted

Changing the core garauntees nothing more than stick with it does. Really the only measure that should matter is if the team is being improved or not.

Past coaching change doesn’t really count imo.
The core players are much better players now than they were under Babcock. I don’t think their first couple seasons should be held against them.

Through all the changes we’ve made to personnel along the way we’ve never really made the D a priority like we did this offseason, outside of acquiring Muzzin which could have been great if he could have stayed healthy, but he didn’t.

We also legitimately have young players ready to take on significant roles in the team. We got a bit of that from Knies, Robertson last year, expectations for both should be higher. Woll hopefully take that next step we are looking for (which is really mostly staying healthy)

And how the heck I got that conclusion is because it’s 100% accurate. The “run it back” complaints are just a months long hissy fit by a portion of people here because the team didn’t agree the path to winning is trading away one of their best players (Marner)

 

[Rare Jewel]

the “run it back” criticism has really just become “they didn’t make the changes I wanted so I’ll pretend nothing has changed”

What did Treliving actually do? Swapped Brodie for Tanev and added OEL.

Wow... big changes

All around the edges.

I don’t think there much argument that this is the best roster we’ve had in the Matthews era

Nowhere close.

It's the same team as last year, just with OEL.

 

[Sypher04]

What did Treliving actually do? Swapped Brodie for Tanev and added OEL.

Wow... big changes

All around the edges.


Nowhere close.

It's the same team as last year, just with OEL.

Thanks for proving my point.
That honestly happened even faster than I expected.

 

[Racer88]

Changing the core garauntees nothing more than stick with it does. Really the only measure that should matter is if the team is being improved or not.

Past coaching change doesn’t really count imo.
The core players are much better players now than they were under Babcock. I don’t think their first couple seasons should be held against them.

Through all the changes we’ve made to personnel along the way we’ve never really made the D a priority like we did this offseason, outside of acquiring Muzzin which could have been great if he could have stayed healthy, but he didn’t.

We also legitimately have young players ready to take on significant roles in the team. We got a bit of that from Knies, Robertson last year, expectations for both should be higher. Woll hopefully take that next step we are looking for (which is really mostly staying healthy)

And how the heck I got that conclusion is because it’s 100% accurate. The “run it back” complaints are just a months long hissy fit by a portion of people here because the team didn’t agree the path to winning is trading away one of their best players (Marner)

We once had young players ready to take the next step…….Marner, Willy. Matthews and Morgan….then we got Tavares and it blew up the cap structure and we have never recovered . How many years are you prepared to give this core before you feel they can’t get it done,

 

[therealkoho]

how many turns do you ever see Matthews take on wing.?

You don't

if the Leafs thought Nylander was a center he wouldn't be taking turns on the wing.

Tbh 34 would just tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine

 

[DarkKnight]

It’s almost like he hasn’t had a chance to develop properly and after his huge amount of playoff games I’m not really surprised. Being yo-yo’d for 3 years and all 11 games. I feel like if we move Lily he’s going to flourish elsewhere with better support.

He's had all kinds of chances to win a gig. He got the playoff start too and look awful, it's on him.

 

[therealkoho]

Some Nylander to Center discussion here.

Hayes slowly turning back into Dangle