Training Camp continued

[BrannigansLaw]

Mackinnon wishes he had the physical game of Matthews. We literally have the best powerforward in the league, and the people who want physicality don't even see it. The difference is that Mackinnon runs around slapping people, making hissy fits, and yelling at his teammates about kale, while Matthews is more concerned with using his physicality for actual productive purposes - taking the puck, keeping the puck, and scoring.

Another hilarious joke of a post.

Maybe Matthews should start slapping people, making hissy fits and yelling at his teammates about kale instead of being the best at everything except winning in the playoffs. That seems to be the recipe for a Stanley Cup win.

 

[Niagara Bill]

The LTIR system is very strange/complicated. It's actually more beneficial for the team for the purposes of accumulating capspace for the future tdl (should they want to make some moves) for them to be as close to the cap as possible.

Because the closer to the cap a team is before using the LTIR, the more relief they’ll get.

So having that contract be this higher/and specific of a number actually benefits the team more for the purposes of mid season moves than it would if it were a few hundred thousand dollars less now

Yea, I understand LTIR, but for that to work you need to injure and lose 1 player for another. It does not replace better bargaining.

 

[Niagara Bill]

You think they will be trying to maximize LTIR in February?

So the absolute best thing that could happen is that a star player goes to LTIR and we get more money to sign another 2 players.
Yes LTIR is a tool, but it can also signify the lose of a good player.
I do not think LTIR in Feb, I think our weakness is between the pipes and we need flexibility to deal with it. LTIR can mean tragedy and a scramble to survive.
For all those that consider LTIR is great, ok when it is some stiff, but not so good when it is JT.

 

[Shooter2x]

Mackinnon McDavid and Matthews are the 3 forwards id choose from to build my team around. My personal ranking of the 3 flip flops its not always the same order based on current trends for the players.

Feels a bit tacky to be reading the current debate when Mackinnon just won a cup. If Matthews wants a no-contest top 2 rank he knows what to do but Mackinnon bought himself one season where he gets to come into the beginning starting as the no.1 out of those 3.

 

[Leaf Fans]

So the absolute best thing that could happen is that a star player goes to LTIR and we get more money to sign another 2 players.
Yes LTIR is a tool, but it can also signify the lose of a good player.
I do not think LTIR in Feb, I think our weakness is between the pipes and we need flexibility to deal with it. LTIR can mean tragedy and a scramble to survive.
For all those that consider LTIR is great, ok when it is some stiff, but not so good when it is JT.

No it is not the absolute best thing. Why would you think that? However, the Leafs were going to use the LTIR so it was prudent to get as close to the cap as possible.

 

[ACC1224]

Mackinnon McDavid and Matthews are the 3 forwards id choose from to build my team around. My personal ranking of the 3 flip flops its not always the same order based on current trends for the players.

Feels a bit tacky to be reading the current debate when Mackinnon just won a cup. If Matthews wants a no-contest top 2 rank he knows what to do but Mackinnon bought himself one season where he gets to come into the beginning starting as the no.1 out of those 3.

Your honesty is refreshing, see it pretty much the same way.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Maybe Matthews should start slapping people, making hissy fits and yelling at his teammates about kale instead of being the best at everything except winning in the playoffs. That seems to be the recipe for a Stanley Cup win.

Correlation is not causation, and something happening once isn't even a correlating pattern in the first place. Colorado did not win the cup because Mackinnon slaps people, throws fits, and yells at teammates about stupid things. Colorado winning the cup also does not make Mackinnon better than Matthews.

Matthews is the better hockey player. That's just an undeniable fact.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Not sure what any of these made-up stories have to do with anything.
The only one who wouldn't be able to take the puck from the other is Mackinnon. There's only so much speed can do against all of the other things Matthews brings to the table.
You put way, way, way too much emphasis on straight line speed. You've done it to dismiss Marner in the past, and you're doing it now to dismiss Matthews.
There is way more to hockey than that. Matthews is a better hockey player than Mackinnon, and it's really not all that close.

Yeah like last night as we all saw the faster team destroyed the slower team .. fyi will confirm tonight at Hot Stove pre game but Matty is again way overweight .. like 3 seasons ago he has come into camp massively over weight

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah like last night as we all saw the faster team destroyed the slower team .. fyi will confirm tonight at Hot Stove pre game but Matty is again way overweight .. like 3 seasons ago he has come into camp massively over weight

There's more to last night's outcome than speed, though unsurprising that you're attempting to boil hockey down to one singular attribute again. Teams beat faster opponents all the time.
Matthews is not "massively overweight". Stop spreading fake rumours and pretending you have inside access to anything. Everybody knows you don't.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

There's more to last night's outcome than speed, though unsurprising that you're attempting to boil hockey down to one singular attribute again. Teams beat faster opponents all the time.
Matthews is not "massively overweight". Stop spreading fake rumours and pretending you have inside access to anything. Everybody knows you don't.

Your acronym is appropriate DEKER ,, stay on your computer with your spreadsheets and knock yourself out .. it does happen as an anomaly, here and there, but faster teams usually beat slower teams as skill can never get utilized but for those who never played they will never know

 

[Dekes For Days]

Your acronym is appropriate DEKER ,, stay on your computer with your spreadsheets and knock yourself out .. it does happen as an anomaly, here and there, but faster teams usually beat slower teams as skill can never get utilized but for those who never played they will never know

That's not even an acronym.
Just because I don't ignore facts and statistics, or spread fake rumours about players, that doesn't mean I don't play hockey. I've probably played more hockey than you.
But you also don't need to play hockey to see how wrong you are. Slower teams beat faster teams all the time. Slower players are often better than faster players.
Because, and say it with me now, there's way, way, way more to hockey than just speed. Speed is just one of many attributes, and you vastly overrate it and seem to ignore everything else.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That's not even an acronym.
Just because I don't ignore facts and statistics, or spread fake rumours about players, that doesn't mean I don't play hockey. I've probably played more hockey than you.
But you also don't need to play hockey to see how wrong you are. Slower teams beat faster teams all the time. Slower players are often better than faster players.
Because, and say it with me now, there's way, way, way more to hockey than just speed. Speed is just one of many attributes, and you vastly overrate it and seem to ignore everything else.

Have a great day! we will never agree on anything hockey likely .. and that is fine it takes all kinds to make world go round .. enjoy a few beers at Scotia tonight at home opener!

 

[Menzinger]

Yea, I understand LTIR, but for that to work you need to injure and lose 1 player for another. It does not replace better bargaining.

Considering when his contract was announced, it was likely in part delayed until they knew the exact number they'd need in order to benefit the most from an LTIR situation - hence why it's such a specific number. There was no incentive for the team to force him to take less money. This is a very unique situation - having him take league minimum offers no relief in the short term (the team would still need to trade a body if he was making less money) or at the tdl.



and not to mention I wouldn't be surprised if there was a handshake agreement with the player considering he likely would have gotten a league minimum deal somewhere else. That's obviously speculation on my part, but won't blink if it's later reported he turned down a competing offer so that he'd get to be on the Leafs

 

[conFABulator]

It is how the successful world works. When Dubas wins something, then and only then can he set a standard. 55 yrs and counting. When you learn something about professional bargaining, you will see the errors of your way.
Thank goodness we have the Athletic to keep the world clear.

Who said anything about Dubas' setting a standard? Also Dubas' has not been the GM for 55 years.

I was simply pointing out that the original comment was laughably naive.

It turns out the Leafs had a full roster and Edmonton with their multiple cup winning GM had to play short handed. Doesn't he get to set a standard?

 

[Niagara Bill]

Who said anything about Dubas' setting a standard? Also Dubas' has not been the GM for 55 years.

I was simply pointing out that the original comment was laughably naive.

It turns out the Leafs had a full roster and Edmonton with their multiple cup winning GM had to play short handed. Doesn't he get to set a standard?

Naive...omg...you do not bargsin min contracts...but the reason he can only give minimum is because he over paid for many others. Agents have controlled his budget.
So, little man..before you start calling people naive you should think first, look in the mirror and realize you have no idea about bargaining salaries and contracts over the long term.it takes no skill to spend the full cap.
Like I said LTIR costs you a player and now you need a player plus goaltender in Feb.

 

[conFABulator]

Naive...omg...you do not bargsin min contracts...but the reason he can only give minimum is because he over paid for many others. Agents have controlled his budget.
So, little man..before you start calling people naive you should think first, look in the mirror and realize you have no idea about bargaining salaries and contracts over the long term.it takes no skill to spend the full cap.
Like I said LTIR costs you a player and now you need a player plus goaltender in Feb.

I am not here to make a bunch of assumptions about you and then use those assumptions to insult you. It didn't work well for you.

Do you actually think if they had saved $400K 3 years ago, we would be in a different spot? It's a flat cap, every contending team is up against it.

Tampa had to let Palat and McDonough go. Colorado let Kuemper, Kadri and Burakovsky walk. Florida has to exchange Huberdeau, Weegar, prospects and picks for Tkachuk and then let Marchment, Giroux and Chiarot go. Edmonton has Barrie and Ceci in the their top 4 and had to play short last night.

Toronto might be the only contending team that did not lose key pieces...that's because of good cap management.

Stay on topic and keep the insults out.

 

[Stephen]

Mackinnon wishes he had the physical game of Matthews. We literally have the best powerforward in the league, and the people who want physicality don't even see it. The difference is that Mackinnon runs around slapping people, making hissy fits, and yelling at his teammates about kale, while Matthews is more concerned with using his physicality for actual productive purposes - taking the puck, keeping the puck, and scoring.

The difference is Nathan Mackinnon and his antics led his team to a Stanley Cup. When comparing players who have accomplished more, it's never a bad idea to incorporate what they do well and try to have more success.

"The best power forward in the league." That's a new one.

 

[Niagara Bill]

I am not here to make a bunch of assumptions about you and then use those assumptions to insult you. It didn't work well for you.

Do you actually think if they had saved $400K 3 years ago, we would be in a different spot? It's a flat cap, every contending team is up against it.

Tampa had to let Palat and McDonough go. Colorado let Kuemper, Kadri and Burakovsky walk. Florida has to exchange Huberdeau, Weegar, prospects and picks for Tkachuk and then let Marchment, Giroux and Chiarot go. Edmonton has Barrie and Ceci in the their top 4 and had to play short last night.

Toronto might be the only contending team that did not lose key pieces...that's because of good cap management.

Stay on topic and keep the insults out.

You started the unsults. And ýes every 10,000 is important to save, something you and Dubas fail to understand. Both Tampa and Colorado did save money and used it to add key players, and most importantly. THEY WON A STANLEY CUP. They were willing to save money on a key players to win.

 

[ACC1224]

"The best power forward in the league." That's a new one.

I can’t imagine that was posted with a straight face.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The difference is Nathan Mackinnon and his antics led his team to a Stanley Cup.

The Colorado Avalanche did not win the Stanley Cup because of Mackinnon's "antics".

"The best power forward in the league." That's a new one.

It shouldn't be a new one. You're only confirming what I said. You don't even realize when you have what you want. Grass is always greener on the other side for some.

 

[conFABulator]

You started the unsults. And ýes every 10,000 is important to save, something you and Dubas fail to understand. Both Tampa and Colorado did save money and used it to add key players, and most importantly. THEY WON A STANLEY CUP. They were willing to save money on a key players to win.

Actually, I didn't start the insults because I never made any. I said a comment was naive, I was careful not to comment on the poster, just the post. Sorry if I disagreed with your post, but that's not an insult.

The year Tampa won their first Cup they had to LTIR their best player to get under the cap. Last year, Colorado played short a few times because they were up against it.

Also, both teams took many years to have any playoff success just like the Leafs have.

It seems like you are holding the Leafs to a higher standard than Tampa or Colorado (or any teams).

I really do believe that any money saved three years ago easily gets spent over the past three years. Maybe Rielly takes less of hometown discount? Giordano? Maybe ZAR's number is larger? I honestly can't think of a team that has done a better job of managing the cap.

Again, if it came across as an insult to YOU, then I apologize. I try hard not to attack the person, even when I disagree with their post. I also try hard not to retaliate and you definitely tried to insult me. Let's call it a misunderstanding and if we were in a pub I would buy you a beer. GLG

 

[Shooter2x]

Malgin didn't do anything to be on the hot seat or be spoken about negatively, but I also didn't expect JT and Nylander to find a groove so early. With Nylander also being all over the defensive zone with JT in the first 2 games I'm wondering if Robertson hovering around waiting to unleash his shot is the better play.

JT had 3 guys on him on a play and he fed Nylander a perfect pass. No longer need another zone entry threat to open Nylander up. JT in elite mode, Nylander buzzing literally every where....that shot Robertson possesses looking real good right now to finish the line off.

 

[Havoc]

Malgin didn't do anything to be on the hot seat or be spoken about negatively, but I also didn't expect JT and Nylander to find a groove so early. With Nylander also being all over the defensive zone with JT in the first 2 games I'm wondering if Robertson hovering around waiting to unleash his shot is the better play.

JT had 3 guys on him on a play and he fed Nylander a perfect pass. No longer need another zone entry threat to open Nylander up. JT in elite mode, Nylander buzzing literally every where....that shot Robertson possesses looking real good right now to finish the line off.

Nah too early to touch. If the line looks amazing have to assume Malgins presence is a factor for now. For example maybe his poise and calm, risk free game so far allows Nylander to buzz around everywhere. Some of those defensive displays from Nylander have been solo missions where he abandons position to track a guy down and get the puck, so have to assume Malgins presence is allowing that. Him and JT know how to re calibrate on the fly when you have someone dynamic like Nylander on the line.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Actually, I didn't start the insults because I never made any. I said a comment was naive, I was careful not comment on the poster, just the poster. Sorry if I disagreed with your post, but that's not an insult.

The year Tampa won their first Cup they had to LTIR their best player to get under the cap. Last year, Colorado played short a few times because they were up against it.

Also, both teams took many years to have any playoff success just like the Leafs have.

It seems like you are holding the Leafs to a higher standard than Tampa or Colorado (or any teams).

I really do believe that any money saved three years ago easily gets spent over the past three years. Maybe Rielly takes less of hometown discount? Giordano? Maybe ZAR's number is larger? I honestly can't think of a team that has done a better job of managing the cap.

Again, if it came across as an insult to YOU, then I apologize. I try hard not to attack the person, even when I disagree with their post. I also try hard not to retaliate and you definitely tried to insult me. Let's call it a misunderstanding and if we were in a pub I would buy you a beer. GL

Cheers

 

[Stephen]

The Colorado Avalanche did not win the Stanley Cup because of Mackinnon's "antics".

It shouldn't be a new one. You're only confirming what I said. You don't even realize when you have what you want. Grass is always greener on the other side for some.

Well, in this case the grass IS greener because Nathan Mackinnon and his team are defending a Stanley Cup title.

But the point of this is only to say Matthews could incorporate elements from other elite players such as a more fiery physical game.

It would be completely disingenuous to suggest his normal play style resembles that of “the best power forward in the game.” We only get glimpses of that from time to time.