Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[ULF_55]

If Liljegren really has played his way into the doghouse already there’s no point in keeping him as the 7th defenseman at $3 million AAV. He’s a RHD that has good advanced stats, that’s valuable. If Willy at centre is done too the best option is to try to get a similarly aged and priced middle-six Centreman for him.

I still think Liljegren has got more to give but I can’t force Berube and the Leafs to like him or play him.

Let's hope for a win-win situation.

Maybe Cowan works out, that would be a win-win in the Sandin trade.

 

[Rare Jewel]

It looks like Jett Luchanko has at least made opening night for the Flyers but they seem to have an abundance of centres regardless.

I wonder about a Cates - Liljegren based swap.

Cates was an idea I liked for Robertson back in August.

 

[Rude Dog]

Dont mind what Tre has done as a whole but his willingness and lack of judgement on term for mediocre players is very concerting. Kampf for 4 years. Reaves 3 years. McCabe for 5 years is fine but he simply can’t couple it with OEL.

He extended Lily a few months ago. Now he is a 8 or waived? Personally i am not a fan of adding Patches Hope I am wrong but this team is getting older fast

 

[TheShape]

$5m for a guy for a guy who is best suited to a 3rd pair and has hard time cracking 20 points is a pass for me.

I love McCabe. Plays with snarl and takes things personally out there, will do anything for his teammates. Leafs need more of that profile, but at the end of the day on a contender, he's best suited on the 3rd pair and should be paid accordingly. I don't like the numbers/term being thrown around here. I could live with it if we didn't already have Tanev and OEL locked up for an eternity. Rielly's no spring chicken anymore either.

 

[Roo]

McCabe is a 2nd pair Dman on a good team. He proved that last year. I can’t see him signing for under $5m Aav, and is currently at $4m.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

I love McCabe. Plays with snarl and takes things personally out there, will do anything for his teammates. Leafs need more of that profile, but at the end of the day on a contender, he's best suited on the 3rd pair and should be paid accordingly. I don't like the numbers/term being thrown around here. I could live with it if we didn't already have Tanev and OEL locked up for an eternity. Rielly's no spring chicken anymore either.

how is he more well suited for the 3rd pair? He has strong results both in terms of GF% and xGF% while playing top 4 minutes (usually in a matchup role as well)

Guy is a top 4 D all day long.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is all valid, and I used.to agree quite strongly with this position.

But a lesson I've seemed to pick up in recent years is just grab the player you want and find a way to deal with it if/when it becomes an issue. Vegas for example hasn't let contract stuff stop them from making necessary moves they get who the need to get and then do what they need to clear room. The Leafs haven't let guys like Robidas, Muzzin, Murray stop them either.

And you're right that we can't necessarily assume that the team will be rebuilding. Id wager Matthews is likely going to finish his career with the Leafs - but the fact is he's also only signed for the next 4 seasons at present - those years obviously need to be prioritized for competitiveness rather than the longer 5,6,7,8 year period.

Matthews is signed for 4 years, but has shown nothing but a commitment to be here for life. Nylander is signed for 8 years, and will probably be a Leaf for life. Marner loves the Leafs, and unless management really sabotages the team, he will be a Leaf for life. We have many years left, and we can't just ignore negative impacts on other competitive years 3, 4, 5, 6 while tunnel visioning on specific players for years 1 and 2. The players we've gotten have not been must-haves, and this type of term should not have been necessary to sign them. We haven't even got them cheaper for doing it.

Not sure what Vegas has to do with anything. They pivot a lot, but they haven't been doing this. It's a lot easier to pivot when your contracts aren't poison pills. Also not really sure what the Leaf players you named have to do with anything. The concern is not as much an injury that puts them on LTIR for the entire rest of their contract (even though the loss of Muzzin did actually really hurt in 2022-2023). The concern is everything else that could happen. Heavy decline but still playing and hurting the team. Heavy decline and taking up dead cap. Injured in and out of the lineup constantly. Having to spend assets to move them. Buyout taking up dead cap. LTIR being changed. Etc. There is often no way to just "deal with it" when it becomes an issue. There are often negative impacts on the team in some way. We've seen that first hand and should know better. The GM has a responsibility for the present and future.

Cap is going up, I'd imagine that spikes the AAV on long term deals.

Not that much. And the whole point is we don't want long term deals. We definitely shouldn't be paying extra money for it through heavy decline years.

It's supported by the fact that when I look at the contending teams around the league and try to find where I think McCabe would fit among them, very few teams would have him in their top four.

It's hard to find a team that wouldn't have him in their top-4. You're underrating him, and/or overrating others.

 

[Gabriel426]

how is he more well suited for the 3rd pair? He has strong results both in terms of GF% and xGF% while playing top 4 minutes (usually in a matchup role as well)

Guy is a top 4 D all day long.

If our top 4 are the Bruins Top 4.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If our top 4 are the Bruins Top 4.

McCabe would be top-4 on the Bruins.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Just saw Sam Lafferty and remembered how utterly bizarre it was that people lamented the loss of him.

 

[Rare Jewel]

It's hard to find a team that wouldn't have him in their top-4. You're underrating him, and/or overrating others.

I said contending teams, not league-wide.

Sure, he may play top 4 in SJ or Calgary, but on Vegas, Tampa, Edmonton. Dallas he's not.

 

[Rare Jewel]

McCabe is a 2nd pair Dman on a good team. He proved that last year. I can’t see him signing for under $5m Aav, and is currently at $4m.

For me, he can play there if you've got an Adam Fox as a partner (or some (RD dynamo). Playing with Benoit or on his off side with OEL just isn't contending team standard IMO.

The other issue in the background is that Treliving won't be moving Marner now, which means it's likely the same thing will play out the way it did for Nylander last year, meaning this three-headed cap crunch issue will persist. But unlike before, I'd like to actually go after Defencemen that just aren't whoever is cheap or whatever is available on the UFA that you usually end up overpaying for.

That may require trading some players and prospects that may sting,

That means you need to try cut 500k-1m (or more) as much as you can with almost every other player, and for me, McCabe @ 5.25 is one place you do it. He's a decent player, but overall, what he brings and his style/age it's too rich, IMO.

But Treliving will likely do it anyway.

 

[Sypher04]

I said contending teams, not league-wide.

Sure, he may play top 4 in SJ or Calgary, but on Vegas, Tampa, Edmonton. Dallas he's not.

Odd choices. # of D better than McCabe:

Calgary - 2
Tampa - 3
Edmonton - 3 at best
Dallas - 2

I’m willing to give you Vegas

 

[Rare Jewel]

Odd choices. # of D better than McCabe:

Calgary - 2
Tampa - 3
Edmonton - 3 at best
Dallas - 2

I’m willing to give you Vegas

Aside from Calgary, most of those D are Lefties, pushing him down to the 3rd pair.

 

[Sypher04]

Aside from Calgary, most of those D are Lefties, pushing him down to the 3rd pair.

He plays both sides so it doesn’t really matter.

 

[Dreakmur]

McCabe is a 2nd pair Dman on a good team. He proved that last year. I can’t see him signing for under $5m Aav, and is currently at $4m.

He was last year, but that's the one and only season of his career. Before you pay him top-4 money, you better be damn sure last year wasn't a fluke.... and you better pray he doesn't decline in his mid-30s....

 

[Roo]

For me, he can play there if you've got an Adam Fox as a partner (or some (RD dynamo). Playing with Benoit or on his off side with OEL just isn't contending team standard IMO.

The other issue in the background is that Treliving won't be moving Marner now, which means it's likely the same thing will play out the way it did for Nylander last year, meaning this three-headed cap crunch issue will persist. But unlike before, I'd like to actually go after Defencemen that just aren't whoever is cheap or whatever is available on the UFA that you usually end up overpaying for.

That may require trading some players and prospects that may sting,

That means you need to try cut 500k-1m (or more) as much as you can with almost every other player, and for me, McCabe @ 5.25 is one place you do it. He's a decent player, but overall, what he brings and his style/age it's too rich, IMO.

But Treliving will likely do it anyway.

McCabe is worthy of being considered a second-pairing defenseman if he is playing with a legit #1 defenseman on a cup-contending team? That's exactly what Adam Fox is to the Rangers. I don't agree with that assessment. I do agree that Benoit is more of a 3rd pairing guy, and that we needed to improve that pairing. That is exactly what they did. You may not be a fan of OEL, but he does bring a lot more to the table than Benoit. We'll see how they do.

All this to say, if you can bring in someone to replace McCabe that is better I would be all for it. So don't get me wrong here. But he is a legitimate 2nd pairing guy on his own. By all accounts they wanted to bring in Matt Roy, he would have been a great partner for him. That would have been a solid 2nd pair, both legit second-pairing guys. For me personally, I would love to see us go after a guy like Ekblad if he makes it to UFA. Big and strong, RHD, big point shot, etc. Would be a good fit here.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sure, he may play top 4 in SJ or Calgary, but on Vegas, Tampa, Edmonton. Dallas he's not.

He'd be top 4 on all of those teams.

 

[Roo]

He was last year, but that's the one and only season of his career. Before you pay him top-4 money, you better be damn sure last year wasn't a fluke.... and you better pray he doesn't decline in his mid-30s....

How much time does it take to prove it wasn't a fluke?

 

[Rare Jewel]

He plays both sides so it doesn’t really matter.

It's not ideal, though.

 

[Rare Jewel]

All this to say, if you can bring in someone to replace McCabe that is better I would be all for it. So don't get me wrong here. But he is a legitimate 2nd pairing guy on his own. By all accounts they wanted to bring in Matt Roy, he would have been a great partner for him. That would have been a solid 2nd pair, both legit second-pairing guys. For me personally, I would love to see us go after a guy like Ekblad if he makes it to UFA. Big and strong, RHD, big point shot, etc. Would be a good fit here.

He is a 2nd pairing on a team with cap issues, or that's not very good.

I think for our 2nd pair, we need to get the bar higher. Also, because Rielly, as much as I like him and he's been a good Leaf, he is at the lower end of the #1 D in the league. This all contributes to the D as a group of 6-8 not being where it's needed to get anywhere in the spring.

 

[Dreakmur]

How much time does it take to prove it wasn't a fluke?

After the 500 games he played during the entirety of his 20s, I'd want more than 73 good games at age 30.

 

[Rare Jewel]

He'd be top 4 on all of those teams.

Please...

I know he's got the Dubas seal of approval, but that is bordering on laughable.

 

[Roo]

After the 500 games he played during the entirety of his 20s, I'd want more than 73 good games at age 30.

How many?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Please...

Which exactly of Dumba, Lyubushkin, Lundkvist, Smith, Moser, Perbix, Raddysh, Lilleberg, McNabb, Whitecloud, Hague, Hutton, Korczak, Kulak, Brown, Emberson, or Stetcher are you overrating?