Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[weems]

Interesting... we scored just as many goals 5v5 as Florida did. We just sucked on the PP (and the PK). Had the PP worked, (or more to the point, won the special teams battle) we likely win the series. Now, this is a team whose power play has been amongst the elite teams over the past 5 years. To me, PP and PK are systems, more than necessarily the players themselves... though having elite offensive talents also helps. Our PP lead the league last year for a time... and then just stopped working altogether. This falls squarely on coaching. I sure hope the new coaches get this fixed, as it will be the single most important area we need work on.

Our PP has been the biggest issue in the playoffs.
When you can throw out a few potential HOF caliber players and it's 5 deep, you shouldn't be getting shutdown.
I agree that it looks like a systemic issue that once the playoffs hit and we're facing a good team, with good goaltending, they really expose it's predictability.

Last 32 games played in the playoffs this is our PP%

 

[ACC1224]

Our PP has been the biggest issue in the playoffs.
When you can throw out a few potential HOF caliber players and it's 5 deep, you shouldn't be getting shutdown.
I agree that it looks like a systemic issue that once the playoffs hit and we're facing a good team, with good goaltending, they really expose it's predictability.

Last 32 games played in the playoffs this is our PP%

View attachment 906073

Just brutal.

 

[BertCorbeau]

It’s a systems issue but how many coaching changes have we seen?? Not just Keefe, I mean assistants too.

 

[VanW27]

It’s a systems issue but how many coaching changes have we seen?? Not just Keefe, I mean assistants too.

Too many to blame the system..

 

[Torontonian]

It’s a systems issue but how many coaching changes have we seen?? Not just Keefe, I mean assistants too.

Well, generally it's on the coaches to make adjustments when your powerplay has been figured out. Not run the same play and hope the skillful players can make it work.

If a coach is telling the players to do the same play and the other team knows it's coming and can defend it, not much the players can do.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It’s a systems issue but how many coaching changes have we seen?? Not just Keefe, I mean assistants too.

Have we seen a single longterm powerplay configuration where the main option once we’re set up isn’t Marner distributing the puck from the point or the wall? The publicized “experiment” with him in the bumper position lasted maybe a full powerplay?

Change all the assistants and secondary personnel you want, if the two guys getting the most touches are Marner and Rielly at the blueline, playoff teams are going give them nothing to pass to and force them to shoot. 5% success rate sounds about right for those conditions.

 

[Gallagbi]

Well, generally it's on the coaches to make adjustments when your powerplay has been figured out. Not run the same play and hope the skillful players can make it work.

If a coach is telling the players to do the same play and the other team knows it's coming and can defend it, not much the players can do.

It didn't feel like we relied on a specific set play or two.

 

[Gabriel426]

Well, generally it's on the coaches to make adjustments when your powerplay has been figured out. Not run the same play and hope the skillful players can make it work.

If a coach is telling the players to do the same play and the other team knows it's coming and can defend it, not much the players can do.

Yes and No.

The players are not mindless robots.

Also, a lot of time last year, beside kept doing the drop back and entering the zone, the other main problem is players not willing to shoot.

I do think it is a bit of both considering the offensive talent and creativity we have.

 

[HolyCrap]

Why in the Hell would anyone buy anything less than 3 ply toilet paper???

Nothing worse than having a finger slip through cheap TP. That being said if it happens more than once a session it’s on purpose.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It’s a systems issue but how many coaching changes have we seen?? Not just Keefe, I mean assistants too.

It's like the same 2-3 systems league wide at 5v5

PK usually has like 1-2 systems

PP you can tailor a bit more to the players you have - if I have a bad team it's traffic in front and point shots for garbage goals or screens/tips.

 

[IPS]

Our PP has been the biggest issue in the playoffs.
When you can throw out a few potential HOF caliber players and it's 5 deep, you shouldn't be getting shutdown.
I agree that it looks like a systemic issue that once the playoffs hit and we're facing a good team, with good goaltending, they really expose it's predictability.

Last 32 games played in the playoffs this is our PP%

View attachment 906073

For as much as people love to shit on this fanbase for pretending they know more than management - literally everybody (well, almost everybody) has seen the blatant issues of our PP for years now. No it's not "getting goalie'd" or being unlucky or some nonsense like that - when 2 out of the 5 players on your PP are complete non-threats for shooting, you're intentionally handicapping your PP for no good reason at all.

 

[conFABulator]

For as much as people love to shit on this fanbase for pretending they know more than management - literally everybody (well, almost everybody) has seen the blatant issues of our PP for years now. No it's not "getting goalie'd" or being unlucky or some nonsense like that - when 2 out of the 5 players on your PP are complete non-threats for shooting, you're intentionally handicapping your PP for no good reason at all.

I was about to write that I wholeheartedly agree, because I think you are right. However, the regular season success on the PP confuses the subject.

Every year fans and management hope that this will be the year that our regular season PP shows up in the playoffs. Do we need to adopt a new PP approach and structure even if the other one is working? I think the answer is "yes" and agree that management should have addressed it.

It's possible it is being addressed as we speak? A new GM (last off-season didn't count for Tre), a new head coach, a new PP coach, and possibly a willingness to make changes.

I think I like the idea of two units, maybe with Matthews on both of them?

Nylander
Domi
Matthews
Knies
OEL

and

Robertson
Marner
Matthews
Tavares
Liljegren

McMann or Reilly can spell Matthews at the end of PP2.

The players, other than Matthews, would see their PP points drop but this is what depth and balance looks like. Internal competition too. The hot unit is PP1.

I guess I do wholeheartedly agree with your views on the PP and it being a large failing not to have addressed it. I am hopeful it is now being addressed.

 

[Americanadian]

Thank god Seattle is locking up Larsson. I was worried he'd be the perfect target for Treliving.

 

[hamzarocks]

Well there goes Larsson.

Would have liked him at 5.25M x 4 over McCabe at 5M x 5 or Tanev at 4.5M x 6

 

[thusk]

1. Bennett will be able to play physical here just like Schenn was able to, like Domi/Bert can. The constant crying and conspiracy theories is pitiful from fans on here

2. Bennett has 37 pts in 54 playoff games for the panthers (last 4 playoffs) or a 56 pt pace per 82 playing 18.5 mins a game and now having played on a cup run and a cup finals run.

that's doesn't mean he better to drive his line basically played 3v5 all game lobg because d was not involve at all under keefe until theybteailling late in game. He was playing in a complete reverse systwm with agressive D constsntly involving in the offensive end and creating hole for the guy in front.

3. Its not hating the core, its hating their consistent failures and being the least successful "contending core" maybe ever in NA sports history. They have been paid absurdly, been hyped to lengths, getting compared against much better players, and they constantly have failed to come close to performing 8 years into this mess.

Making change because of it will just result on trash move who gonna make you worst

4. Tavare is beyond cooked and we saw how crap he was past playoffs with 2 pts in 7 after a horrible second half to the reg season when seperated from ~120 pt pacing nylander. Boston didnt have to shut him down, he was useless, generating very little, being a crippling player on the PP, and overall being useless vs what should have been an easy matchup vs Zacha or Coyle in the series. Granlund should be a last resort if we cant bring in Verhaghe+Bennett+Larsson+Borgen to revamp the team. Bringing back tavares at 6-7M on 3-4 year term will be the end of any chance to contend with a top 3 goalscorer of all time on this team.

again how many player in this league are able to producing in playoff with d completly useless?

Watch every team who had succes in those past year, their D was way more involve than Toronto. In any time of Dubas era, leafs been able to fix goalie and/or D issues

 

[Contenderorpretender]

It’s a systems issue but how many coaching changes have we seen?? Not just Keefe, I mean assistants too.

There's been changes??? You're telling me multiple coaches implemented the drop pass in every single pp possession?
Jk I know they all did. Donkeys.

 

[hamzarocks]

that's doesn't mean he better to drive his line basically played 3v5 all game lobg because d was not involve at all under keefe until theybteailling late in game. He was playing in a complete reverse systwm with agressive D constsntly involving in the offensive end and creating hole for the guy in front.


Making change because of it will just result on trash move who gonna make you worst



again how many player in this league are able to producing in playoff with d completly useless?

Watch every team who had succes in those past year, their D was way more involve than Toronto. In any time of Dubas era, leafs been able to fix goalie and/or D issues

The D was not useless and contained the bruins scoring chances well. They were not great offensively but neither was the core guys, creating very little dangerous chances when thar is their main job

The current defense isnt much better at puck moving and offense from the back-end

When the core struggles for a 9th time O am sure new excuses will be made for them

Holding onto a proven failed core is how you waste an era and extend the leafs cup drought.

 

[Evilhomer]

Our PP has been the biggest issue in the playoffs.
When you can throw out a few potential HOF caliber players and it's 5 deep, you shouldn't be getting shutdown.
I agree that it looks like a systemic issue that once the playoffs hit and we're facing a good team, with good goaltending, they really expose it's predictability.

Last 32 games played in the playoffs this is our PP%

View attachment 906073

But then look at the regular season PP numbers. The Leafs have generally been near the top of the league in power play efficiency in the regular season. It then drops considerably in the playoffs, which makes me think it is a player issue rather than a systems issue.

 

[thusk]

The D was not useless and contained the bruins scoring chances well. They were not great offensively but neither was the core guys, creating very little dangerous chances when thar is their main job

The current defense isnt much better at puck moving and offense from the back-end

When the core struggles for a 9th time O am sure new excuses will be made for them

Holding onto a proven failed core is how you waste an era and extend the leafs cup drought.

Leafs wasn't shutdown boston because D was amaizing, they shutdown boston because they was playing save game and was playing to don't allowing goal. They didn't took any kind of risk, they was passive in forechecking to be sure to don't be caught out of position... They played well because leafs foward stop attacking to overprotecting the D group!!! that's the reality.

what Tanev bring by exemple, hes not the guy who will bring goal on the table but he will allow to rielly to play free and be involve in the offensive game without fear. Exemple rielly join the rush but rush failed and gave up a 2v1... with brodie or most d rielly played with, none was able to make a good defensive play or forcing an easiest shot for goalie. So no he will not score a lot of pts but he will still have an impact in the offensive side with his defensive game. Under keefe in playoff, the only time we saw rielly involved in the offensive game was when leafs trailing, that's it.

Oel is a 2 way player who can do a little bit of everything. Can producing and play on pp, can defend or play in pk, can play physical.

Hockey is a 5 men game, stop thinking offensive about 3 guy and defensive 2... Its all in 1.

I just can tell you, its much more easier shutdown 3 player than 5 at time.

 

[weems]

But then look at the regular season PP numbers. The Leafs have generally been near the top of the league in power play efficiency in the regular season. It then drops considerably in the playoffs, which makes me think it is a player issue rather than a systems issue.

Do you think the players are playing differently on the PP in the playoffs?
Are they a bunch of choke artists and can't even produce 5v4 when the games matter most?

 

[Stephen]

It’s a systems issue but how many coaching changes have we seen?? Not just Keefe, I mean assistants too.

Probably depends on how that coaching staff works internally. I don’t recall the PP behaving any differently between Malhotra and Boucher for example.

 

[Evilhomer]

Do you think the players are playing differently on the PP in the playoffs?
Are they a bunch of choke artists and can't even produce 5v4 when the games matter most?

They clearly struggle 5 on 5 in the playoffs (whereas they don't struggle at all offensively in the regular season), and that hasn't been a systems issue. I don't think the power play is any different. Hopefully the new coaching staff can change it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

For as much as people love to shit on this fanbase for pretending they know more than management - literally everybody (well, almost everybody) has seen the blatant issues of our PP for years now. No it's not "getting goalie'd" or being unlucky or some nonsense like that - when 2 out of the 5 players on your PP are complete non-threats for shooting, you're intentionally handicapping your PP for no good reason at all.

Add in that JT tends to not screen the goalie but stand a bit off to the side looking for a deflection or rebound.

 

[IPS]

I was about to write that I wholeheartedly agree, because I think you are right. However, the regular season success on the PP confuses the subject.

Every year fans and management hope that this will be the year that our regular season PP shows up in the playoffs. Do we need to adopt a new PP approach and structure even if the other one is working? I think the answer is "yes" and agree that management should have addressed it.

It's possible it is being addressed as we speak? A new GM (last off-season didn't count for Tre), a new head coach, a new PP coach, and possibly a willingness to make changes.

I think I like the idea of two units, maybe with Matthews on both of them?

Nylander
Domi
Matthews
Knies
OEL

and

Robertson
Marner
Matthews
Tavares
Liljegren

McMann or Reilly can spell Matthews at the end of PP2.

The players, other than Matthews, would see their PP points drop but this is what depth and balance looks like. Internal competition too. The hot unit is PP1.

I guess I do wholeheartedly agree with your views on the PP and it being a large failing not to have addressed it. I am hopeful it is now being addressed.

Power Play Success Rates (2018-2023)​

2018-2019:​

• Regular Season: 19.8%
• Playoffs: 17.9%

2019-2020:​

• Regular Season: 20.0%
• Playoffs: 18.8%

2020-2021:​

• Regular Season: 20.1%
• Playoffs: 19.2%

2021-2022:​

• Regular Season: 21.6%
• Playoffs: 19.5%

2022-2023:​

• Regular Season: 21.3%
• Playoffs: 19.3%

Team's tighten up in the playoffs, it's no secret. The Leafs just happen to have the worst case of this, and it's very obviously tied into their questionable PP personnel and lack of shooting ability / one-time threats. In the playoffs, you NEED to get to the front of the net to convert. Our guys just don't do that. Double team Matthews and Nobody is worried about Mitch dancing around the perimeter passing off into nowhere or Rielly taking a harmless shot from the point.

They clearly struggle 5 on 5 in the playoffs (whereas they don't struggle at all offensively in the regular season), and that hasn't been a systems issue. I don't think the power play is any different. Hopefully the new coaching staff can change it.

I was actually quite impressed with the team's 5 on 5 play this past playoffs, especially games 5-7 where they played an impressively tight team defense.

 

[Fogelhund]

Power Play Success Rates (2018-2023)​

2018-2019:​

• Regular Season: 19.8%
• Playoffs: 17.9%

2019-2020:​

• Regular Season: 20.0%
• Playoffs: 18.8%

2020-2021:​

• Regular Season: 20.1%
• Playoffs: 19.2%

2021-2022:​

• Regular Season: 21.6%
• Playoffs: 19.5%

2022-2023:​

• Regular Season: 21.3%
• Playoffs: 19.3%

Team's tighten up in the playoffs, it's no secret. The Leafs just happen to have the worst case of this, and it's very obviously tied into their questionable PP personnel and lack of shooting ability / one-time threats. In the playoffs, you NEED to get to the front of the net to convert. Our guys just don't do that. Double team Matthews and Nobody is worried about Mitch dancing around the perimeter passing off into nowhere or Rielly taking a harmless shot from the point.


I was actually quite impressed with the team's 5 on 5 play this past playoffs, especially games 5-7 where they played an impressively tight team defense.

I looked at your comparisons, and thought, well that isn't much of a drop off.

This year, our regular season PP% was 24.0%, playoffs 4.8%, that's terrible.

Since 2018-19 our regular season is 24%, playoffs 15.8%.
All the teams in the League regular season 20.47%, Playoffs, 20.73%.

I wondered about your data, and figured teams tighten up in the playoffs, and the rest of the league likely saw similar drops... so I looked at the data, and it proved the opposite. Teams actually score at a slightly greater rate in the playoffs on the PP.

Out of curiousity... I checked the PK stats too...76% in the playoffs... 79.6% regular season. 2018-19 to 2023-24

Everything gets worse in the playoffs... just a terrible playoff team.

We better hope it's down to coaching.. because this is something that needs fixing. If it doesn't get better this year... it's the players, and they'll need changing... which we've been over ad naseum anyway.