Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Americanadian]

I wouldn't mind grabbing Doan out of Utah. Its looks he is ready to jump to the NHL, and he is a right handed power forward.
Now that they have moved to Utah, the Doan connection to the franchise is irrelevant.
And his father is part of Leaf management.

Having a player’s dad as AGM is a recipe for disaster. Shane has a duty to the team to look out for the teams best interest and he has a duty to his son to look out for his sons best interest. Those two things will intersect if Josh is on the team.

 

[Gabriel426]

Have been too busy to post here recently, but I'm curious. What was the "usual suspects" response to 57 goal Reinhardt signing for (lol) 8.6x8 while Nylander signed for 11.5x8? I'm late to the game.

But I'm extraordinarily interested in hearing what the 'you know who's' had to say on the matter.

Tax and Cup winner, lol.

 

[TMLAM34]

Utah also isn’t trading Doan.

 

[LeafParade]

Having a player’s dad as AGM is a recipe for disaster. Shane has a duty to the team to look out for the teams best interest and he has a duty to his son to look out for his sons best interest. Those two things will intersect if Josh is on the team.

Ok fine, I guess we have to fire Shane Doan first.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Prove your theory.

High tax markets: Marleau. Thornton. Kopitar. Doughty. Panarin. Price. Tavares. Petterson. Pasta. Matthews. Marner. Karlson.

All signed for 13.5-15% aav

No no tax player ever signed for 13.5%

Barkov/bob 12.27. Benn I think was the highest at 13ish?

Many Tampa players signed for 11-12

why are they all signing for less?

Like I said, if the true reality is that millionaire players are ceding their low tax advantage to accept getting paid less money to better fill the pockets of their billionaire owners... (lol).... then why even follow this league?

In a hard cap league, having to pay 11.5 million to 40 goal scorers while the competition can pay 8.6 to 57 goal scorers, what's even the point?

Your actual advice is essentially (my interpretation):

Yes, high tax cities have literally no chance. None. Like, not even a little bit. They will always lose. Always.

GO LEAFS GO NEXT SEASON

Like, what the hell?

If what you say is actually true, then every leaf fan would be a complete and total utter idiot to continue following the team. Because the entire league is rigged against us.

 

[Da Mash]

Reaves is the worst player on the leafs by a mile. Offers nothing except yapping as he can’t even protect our players.

And does his age prevent us to waive him and save cap space?
He was a guy Tre wanted to change the culture in locker room supposedly.

He should be added to the list of players to get rid of

 

[Legion34]

Do you think 13.14M for 7 years with heavy signing bonuses was there for Nylander on July 1st?

14% would have been 12.12.

I really don’t know? My guess would be no right now…. That’s why I am saying will will need to adjust to Covid cap numbers. But pre Covid. 13.5-14.5% was standard in high tax markets across success. Weather. Prestige

Toronto Montreal SJ LA. NY all pay really high for top UFA

Like I said, if the true reality is that millionaire players are ceding their low tax advantage to accept getting paid less money to better fill the pockets of their billionaire owners... (lol).... then why even follow this league?

In a hard cap league, having to pay 11.5 million to 40 goal scorers while the competition can pay 8.6 to 57 goal scorers, what's even the point?

Your actual advice is essentially (my interpretation):



Like, what the hell?

If what you say is actually true, then every leaf fan would be a complete and total utter idiot to continue following the team. Because the entire league is rigged against us.

Yes. We are all dumb. But we will still watch.

 

[WTFMAN99]

14% would have been 12.12.

I really don’t know? My guess would be no right now…. That’s why I am saying will will need to adjust to Covid cap numbers. But pre Covid. 13.5-14.5% was standard in high tax markets across success. Weather. Prestige

Toronto Montreal SJ LA. NY all pay really high for top UFA



Yes. We are all dumb. But we will still watch.

I'm also thinking no...we need to negotiate a bit harder.

 

[Legion34]

I'm also thinking no...we need to negotiate a bit harder.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Here is the top cap hit by percentage.

You can see a bunch of the top performers. Kane/toews/perry/thornton/price/marleau

Aged out. But you can check. They were all 14% ish

Benn is the highest at 13% ever signed in a no state tax market.

Lots of 11-12 % with Hedman. Josi. Stamkos. Point. Vasi. Kuch etc.

Seems like an odd grouping

 

[WTFMAN99]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Here is the top cap hit by percentage.

You can see a bunch of the top performers. Kane/toews/perry/thornton/price/marleau

Aged out. But you can check. They were all 14% ish

Benn is the highest at 13% ever signed in a no state tax market.

Lots of 11-12 % with Hedman. Josi. Stamkos. Point. Vasi. Kuch etc.

Seems like an odd grouping

Benn in his 2nd and 3rd contract really pushed hard in negotiations, some guys just do that, similar to ROR.

I suspect Dallas will be in a position to play hard ball when Benn expires, it also helps that Benn is kind of unique. He brings a lot beyond the point totals, produces fairly well and a physical presence.

Absolutely launched McNabb when he hit Stankhoven in that Vegas series.

 

[Legion34]

Benn in his 2nd and 3rd contract really pushed hard in negotiations, some guys just do that, similar to ROR.

I suspect Dallas will be in a position to play hard ball when Benn expires.

and he still took way less. You really aren’t seeing a pattern here?

You honestly think it’s about “the player” when all these contracts are negotiated by agents?

 

[Americanadian]

Prove your theory.

High tax markets: Marleau. Thornton. Kopitar. Doughty. Panarin. Price. Tavares. Petterson. Pasta. Matthews. Marner. Karlson.

All signed for 13.5-15% aav

No no tax player ever signed for 13.5%

Barkov/bob 12.27. Benn I think was the highest at 13ish?

Many Tampa players signed for 11-12

why are they all signing for less?

Rantanen signed for 1.65M less than Marner. Aho signed for 1.75M less than Nylander. Both those comparables started their contracts the same year. I’d take Aho/Rantanen over Nylander/Marner any day of the week. Carolina/Colorado both have state income tax.

Fox and Makar both signed for <10M in the past 3 years. Both players are more valuable than any Leaf except Matthews. Makar has a better point per game rate in the playoffs than any Leaf.

Pastrnak has outperformed Nylander every single year, by a good margin. Somehow Nylander will make more than him again.

It goes beyond the tax rate. The Leafs management (Treliving and Dubas) are more to blame for the debilitating contracts than the taxes. Taxes are mostly an excuse fans use so they don’t have to blame their favorite players for making the team worse by fighting for every dollar.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Rantanen signed for 1.65M less than Marner. Aho signed for 1.75M less than Nylander. Both those comparables started their contracts the same year. I’d take Aho/Rantanen over Nylander/Marner any day of the week. Carolina/Colorado both have state income tax.

Fox and Makar both signed for <10M in the past 3 years. Both players are more valuable than any Leaf except Matthews. Makar has a better point per game rate in the playoffs than any Leaf.

Pastrnak has outperformed Nylander every single year, by a good margin. Somehow Nylander will make more than him again.

It goes beyond the tax rate. The Leafs management (Treliving and Dubas) are more to blame for the debilitating contracts than the taxes. Taxes are mostly an excuse fans use so they don’t have to blame their favorite players for making the team worse by fighting for every dollar.

These are valid points.

 

[Legion34]

Rantanen signed for 1.65M less than Marner. Aho signed for 1.75M less than Nylander. Both those comparables started their contracts the same year. I’d take Aho/Rantanen over Nylander/Marner any day of the week. Carolina/Colorado both have state income tax.

Fox and Makar both signed for <10M in the past 3 years. Both players are more valuable than any Leaf except Matthews. Makar has a better point per game rate in the playoffs than any Leaf.

Pastrnak has outperformed Nylander every single year, by a good margin. Somehow Nylander will make more than him again.

It goes beyond the tax rate. The Leafs management (Treliving and Dubas) are more to blame for the debilitating contracts than the taxes. Taxes are mostly an excuse fans use so they don’t have to blame their favorite players for making the team worse by fighting for every dollar.

Yes. Carolina and Colorado have 45%
Ish. Not 54% ish.

So your thought is. Every high state tax gm is a bad negotiator and their players are selfish

And every low state tax gm is a brilliant negotiator and players just want to win?

How did yzerman go from staring down stamkos to 3.4 for Justin hill?

what changed?

Fox and makar signed during covid flat caps. Very hard to compare.

Pasta took 13.64% which is within the 13.5-14,5% that was standard. Boston’s taxes are lower.

Edit. Also according to the cap friendly tax calculator, aho made 200k more this year than Willy

 

[Sypher04]

Also changing the goal posts quite a bit.

First we hear "Cap % hit" for our players and now how many years later, Reinhart is signing for significantly less than Marner did like 5 years ago. Now it's tax rate.

Just because you didn’t understand the arguments doesn’t mean the goal posts were moved.

Both cap percentage and tax rate have been talking points for years and their relevance is for different things

I also don’t think the tax rate issue has ever been to absolve the leafs of bad contracts they chose to sign

 

[Leafs87]

Boggles my mind how we were concerned with Schenn at 3X2.75 but not Tanev at 6X4.5. Both were 34 when signing….

 

[WTFMAN99]

Just because you didn’t understand the arguments doesn’t mean the goal posts were moved.

Both cap percentage and tax rate have been talking points for years and their relevance is for different things

I also don’t think the tax rate issue has ever been to absolve the leafs of bad contracts they chose to sign

I understand the arguments just fine

 

[Throw More Waffles]

14% would have been 12.12.

I really don’t know? My guess would be no right now…. That’s why I am saying will will need to adjust to Covid cap numbers. But pre Covid. 13.5-14.5% was standard in high tax markets across success. Weather. Prestige

Toronto Montreal SJ LA. NY all pay really high for top UFA



Yes. We are all dumb. But we will still watch.

But why do you actually follow the team? What do you get out of it?

Myself and many others say "We had a rookie gm who coddled our core players and created a monster. They're now only out for themselves and are selfish. But we can make changes. We can succeed in the future."

And you're like "Nope. We are eternally doomed. We have to pay 11.5 million dollars to 40 goal scorers while our direct competition pay 8.6 million to 57 goal scorers. We can't win. It's masochism. There's no point. Life is hell. We're all going to die."

Like, I can't believe I'm saying it. But I am the optimist here. ME. THROW MORE f***ING WAFFLES. I'm the one blaming unprecedented dramatic overpayments on a horrible culture set by a horrible rookie gm. And you're like "Nope. No gm in a billion years could ever overcome having to pay, in a hard cap world, 11.5 million to 40 goal scorers while our competition can pay 8.6 million to 57 goal scorers.

 

[WTFMAN99]

But why do you actually follow the team? What do you get out of it?

Myself and many others say "We had a rookie gm who coddled our core players and created a monster. They're now only out for themselves and are selfish. But we can make changes. We can succeed in the future."

And you're like "Nope. We are eternally doomed. We have to pay 11.5 million dollars to 40 goal scorers while our direct competition pay 8.6 million to 57 goal scorers. We can't win. It's masochism. There's no point. Life is hell. We're all going to die."

Like, I can't believe I'm saying it. But I am the optimist here. ME. THROW MORE f***ING WAFFLES. I'm the one blaming unprecedented dramatic overpayments on a horrible culture set by a horrible rookie gm. And you're like "Nope. No gm in a billion years could ever overcome having to pay, in a hard cap world, 11.5 million to 40 goal scorers while our competition can pay 8.6 million to 57 goal scorers.

Really does make sense to implement either a separate salary cap by team to account for different taxation but it would be a pain in the ass.

A less pain in the ass move would be implementing a luxury tax.

Why a luxury tax? Of the major sports leagues in North America, the NHL and the NFL don't have a luxury tax while the MLB and NBA do.

Key difference? The NFL can cut guys anytime whereas the NHL has guaranteed contracts.

If we're going to continue with this "parity" bullshit the NHL was so keen on achieving, then we need to actually account for the fact that there is a clear difference in take home pay in certain locations so let's try to even the playing field a bit.

 

[Legion34]

But why do you actually follow the team? What do you get out of it?

Myself and many others say "We had a rookie gm who coddled our core players and created a monster. They're now only out for themselves and are selfish. But we can make changes. We can succeed in the future."

And you're like "Nope. We are eternally doomed. We have to pay 11.5 million dollars to 40 goal scorers while our direct competition pay 8.6 million to 57 goal scorers. We can't win. It's masochism. There's no point. Life is hell. We're all going to die."

Like, I can't believe I'm saying it. But I am the optimist here. ME. THROW MORE f***ING WAFFLES. I'm the one blaming unprecedented dramatic overpayments on a horrible culture set by a horrible rookie gm. And you're like "Nope. No gm in a billion years could ever overcome having to pay, in a hard cap world, 11.5 million to 40 goal scorers while our competition can pay 8.6 million to 57 goal scorers.

Those are different questions. First we have to establish it is happening

every Stanley cup final except 2019 has had at least one no tax finalist. And 4 of the last 5 cups have been won by 3 no tax teams.

4 of the top 5 ufas signed in no state tax markets.

They all signed for under value.

Agents gms media accountants business insiders all admit it is an issue.

No state tax teams stars signs for 11-12.25.

The one outlier was 13% Benn

Other teams 13.5% is a steal.

It’s just facts

Edit. Show me one cheap dramatic steal of a contract yzerman got since he went to Detroit

How did all these gms- trots/JBB/armstrong/mcphee all become brilliant negotiators.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Then every single one of us is a flat out idiot for following the nhl and being a fan of a Canadian team. What's the point? If we have to pay our 40 goal players 11.5 and other teams can pay their 57 goal players 8.6 (the team that just won the cup) then this is a lost cause.

Like, why are even you here? I think your excuse is bullshit... I don't think the players will willing hand over their tax advantage to billionaire owners at the expense of themselves. I think they will want to be paid percentages of cap compared to other players, and if they pay less taxes, then good for them.

But fine. Let's accept your fairy tale world for a moment where millionaire players hand off their tax rate advantage to billionaire owners.

Why do you even follow this league? Why do you follow the Maple Leafs? We're talking about an insurmountable advantage. No amount of good general managing can overcome us having to pay 40 goal players 11.5 million while other teams pay 57 goal players 8.5

I watch because I am a Leaf fan. I enjoy watching hockey. I was as much as I can. Currently, I am looking forward to the Summer Showcase, the Hlinka and the rookies tourney in Montreal this year.

 

[Sypher04]

I understand the arguments just fine

Then that makes your post before even more perplexing if you knew it was wrong when you posted it

 

[LiseL]

What the hell... What a get from the Caps. A lot of value there.

I'm a Sens fan, come in peace. Chychrin was terrible for us, low IQ, allergic to contact, terrible in the defensive zone. He does have a great shot but would need to be paired with a very responsible stay-at-home D to be effective. I think he'll do better in Washington as he'll be able to play on his left side, will probably be paired with a stay-at-home and will get PP time. Wish him well, but we needed someone like Jensen as we had too many lefties who are all soft and not very good defensively other than Sanderson. Was surprised that was all we got as he has been shopped since before the trade deadline, but the market dictates a player's value and his doesn't seem to have been all that great.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm a Sens fan, come in peace. Chychrin was terrible for us, low IQ, allergic to contact, terrible in the defensive zone. He does have a great shot but would need to be paired with a very responsible stay-at-home D to be effective. I think he'll do better in Washington as he'll be able to play on his left side, will probably be paired with a stay-at-home and will get PP time. Wish him well, but we needed someone like Jensen as we had too many lefties who are all soft and not very good defensively other than Sanderson. Was surprised that was all we got as he has been shopped since before the trade deadline, but the market dictates a player's value and his doesn't seem to have been all that great.

Realistically, he's likely trying to stay healthy and have a big season ahead of free agency.

 

[Menzinger]

Then every single one of us is a flat out idiot for following the nhl and being a fan of a Canadian team. What's the point? If we have to pay our 40 goal players 11.5 and other teams can pay their 57 goal players 8.6 (the team that just won the cup) then this is a lost cause.

Like, why are even you here? I think your excuse is bullshit... I don't think the players will willing hand over their tax advantage to billionaire owners at the expense of themselves. I think they will want to be paid percentages of cap compared to other players, and if they pay less taxes, then good for them.

But fine. Let's accept your fairy tale world for a moment where millionaire players hand off their tax rate advantage to billionaire owners.

Why do you even follow this league? Why do you follow the Maple Leafs? We're talking about an insurmountable advantage. No amount of good general managing can overcome us having to pay 40 goal players 11.5 million while other teams pay 57 goal players 8.5

It's not a fairy tale that other markets are going to have advantages over others..

For some it's taxes, others it's weather, for some it's low media pressure, among many other factors. Florida teams seemingly are very lucky that they have strong overlap over many of these

Southern US markets are going to have multiple advantages over Canadian cities. You either just have to accept it as it is, or follow a different league or sport