Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition
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hamzarocks
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Hes never worked there for long I beleive
The preds tried him there and he wasnt as effective as the wing, him and Colton Scissons were two guys back in 2010s they were trying to develop into higher lineup guys/potentially centers
Jarkrok fell off hard last season. His first year he could play top 6 in the reg season
Last year he had a lot of injuries, his shot wasnt there and he didnt show drive that he had Y1
Playoffs he fared as he has his whole career
I'm thinking they should keep him as a stopgap there until they get someone more effective at the deadline.
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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I dunno. Taking a guy who is doing an okay job somewhere, only to give them a harder job somewhere else isn't always going to pay off.
millions of dollars have been spent on July 1st because GM's thought the player they signed Developed and grew but the reality is they didn't. It was just a career year. this isn't a player at the end of there ELC or at the end of a bridge deal. nor is it a scenario where Mitch has continued to grow from an offensive stand point. he's been so consistent that again bad or good year I would expect to get a 90-100 point guy if we re-signed the player. thats who he's been for the past 6 season's.
my point is that I have had 7 playoffs to watch Marner and if he finally actually has a good playoff why should I believe that will be the player I would expect from now on and not just a more committed player because of his contract? why is this all of a sudden the year Mitch gets it?
let me reiterate I think Mitch is one of the best wingers in the game, and he's shown amazing consistency year over year, and I honestly expect him to be re-signed. my point all along is that even if he has a great playoffs that wouldn't change what I'd be willing to give him on a contract. like I'm in the 11-12.5 million range but a good playoffs doesn't get him to 13 in my books one good year doesn't earn you nothing. consistency does in my books.
conFABulator
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What?!? Millions of dollars is spent on contracts that are banking on the player developing and growing, because all players do this.
William Nylander? Remember he was overpaid and then a bargain? That's because he grew and developed as a player. Draisatl? That $8.5M AAV sure seemed like a lot at one point, didn't it?
I am not saying we should sign/extend Marner because we believe he will continue to grow and develop and that this growth will include playoff performance. I am saying he should show us, prove it and if/once he does then that will be who he is...a guy that can produce in the playoffs.
I actually don't understand your position. You believe a person is done developing at 28 years old and if they show something they never previously showed it doesn't matter? It should be discounted completely?
What about Knies? Should we offer him a contract that only reflects what he has done so far in his career?
To much dead weight again. Jarnkrok Kampf Reaves Dewar all suck. Give the kids a chance. Cowan, Grebyonkin, Minten etc.
TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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Unless Minten or Quillan make the roster out of camp I'm guessing they put Domi at 3C between two defensively responsible wingers like McMann, Knies, or Jarnkrok.
That leaves a battle for one top 6 left wing spot between Cowan, Grebyonkin, and Robertson (if he signs fast enough)
Cowan/Grebyonkin - Matthews - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
McMann - Domi - Jarnkrok
Dewar - Kampf -Holmberg
That leaves a battle for one top 6 left wing spot between Cowan, Grebyonkin, and Robertson (if he signs fast enough)
Cowan/Grebyonkin - Matthews - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
McMann - Domi - Jarnkrok
Dewar - Kampf -Holmberg
you don't understand that I view things over the long term to be more important and a more clear indication of future performance then the short term performance? and therefore put more stock into it when looking at UFA contracts and what someone deserves? I mean it's pretty simple really.
and quit miss representing what I'm saying about people improving... I've never said players can't improve past 28 everyone's different but Marners past points to him being the player we currently see, he's been this player for 6 years. I expect him to continue for another 5-6 before he starts his decline in his career.
also if you plan on giving examples to fit your point of view please give ones that somewhat fit the same mold not two players in Drai and Nylander who had 2 and 3 years of NHL experience and in there early 20's as players who grew and developed after they signed there contracts. there not even remotely comparable to Marner today. Neither is Knies that's a ridiculous comp as well. I mean that fact that those are who you had to point to instead of someone signing a big UFA deal and then developing and growing into there deal speaks volumes of itself to not really have good comparables like atleast bring up someone like Panarin/Tkachuk there much better arguments for you.
conFABulator
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- Apr 11, 2021
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I am not making comparisons of Draisatl and Nylander to Marner, I am using them as counters to your position it's a mistake to sign someone to a contract based on what a player is projected to become. I think these are two of the many examples that illustrate sometimes it is the best move. Knies is an example of where the Leafs should employ this approach themselves, pay for future expectations as it might get us a deal.
I don't know what your history of posts would show me, but it feels like you might have a separate set of rules for Marner. You say that players CAN improve after the age of 28. Marner is 27 this season. Why can he not do what others have done? Why so sure?
Do you want an actual comparison? How about Hyman? What about Hyman's playoff performance before the age of 28 suggested he would develop in the player he has become. He had five goals in 32 playoff games by the time he was 28 years old and 30 goals in the 53 games since then. Why exactly is it out of the realm of possibility that Marner could have the same metamorphosis?
I am not saying that Marner WILL do this, I am not at all sure he has it in him. What I am saying is if he does do it, he will have done it and why is that not the player he is then? You seem to be suggesting that even if Marner has a breakout playoff performance that he would never do it again, that it is a blip and not the beginning of a new era for him. Again, why so sure?
Is there any smoke around this or just clickbait
www.mapleleafsdaily.com
Intriguing proposal would see the Maple Leafs land a $7.1M player
The Toronto Maple Leafs are the centre of the hockey universe, as is proven by a recent trade proposal that would land the Leafs a $57M player in a blockbuster deal.
www.mapleleafsdaily.com
Click baitIs there any smoke around this or just clickbait
Intriguing proposal would see the Maple Leafs land a $7.1M player
The Toronto Maple Leafs are the centre of the hockey universe, as is proven by a recent trade proposal that would land the Leafs a $57M player in a blockbuster deal.
Leaf Fans
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
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You can go on PuckGM | PuckPedia and make your own proposal with an equal amount of smoke.Is there any smoke around this or just clickbait
Intriguing proposal would see the Maple Leafs land a $7.1M player
The Toronto Maple Leafs are the centre of the hockey universe, as is proven by a recent trade proposal that would land the Leafs a $57M player in a blockbuster deal.
TMLBlueandWhite
Toxic Marner Is Toxic
- Feb 2, 2023
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Leafs trade Marner, McCabe,
St Louis trades Parayko, Schenn
Leafs trade Tavares, Liljegren, Danford, Minten, 1st(2026)
Washington trades Carlson, McMichael, Thompson
Domi(3.75)/Matthews(13.5)/Nylander(11.5)
Knies(1)/Schenn(6.5)/Cowan(1)
Robertson(1)/McMichael(1)/Jarnkrok(2)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35), Holmberg(1)
Reilly(7.5)/Carlson(8)
OEL(3.5)/Parayko(6.5)
Benoit(1)/Tanev(4.5)
*Hapankaa(1.5)
Stolarz (2.5)
Woll (1)
Thompson (1)
Total = 85.1 (2.9 remaining)
St Louis trades Parayko, Schenn
Leafs trade Tavares, Liljegren, Danford, Minten, 1st(2026)
Washington trades Carlson, McMichael, Thompson
Domi(3.75)/Matthews(13.5)/Nylander(11.5)
Knies(1)/Schenn(6.5)/Cowan(1)
Robertson(1)/McMichael(1)/Jarnkrok(2)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35), Holmberg(1)
Reilly(7.5)/Carlson(8)
OEL(3.5)/Parayko(6.5)
Benoit(1)/Tanev(4.5)
*Hapankaa(1.5)
Stolarz (2.5)
Woll (1)
Thompson (1)
Total = 85.1 (2.9 remaining)
hamzarocks
Registered User
Bad value on marner trade
Marner is still worth alone for then Parayako. B Schenn is pretty washed and McCabe the better asset at this pt
The 2nd deal is quite a lot of assets 2026 1st, Minten (meh) Danford to Get good value but idk if the capitals want to deal John Carlson who is their 1D and best d-man in franchise history. Tavares and Carlson both needing to waive NMCs likely kills any chace of a deal around this framework
I've stated multiple times now why I think Marner is the player he is, ITS HIS CONSISTENCY OVER THE LAST 6 YEARS!
let me ask you a question if Marner goes out next year and has a healthy season but only produces 70 points would he now only be worth 7-8 million and not closer to around 12 like he is today?
TMLBlueandWhite
Toxic Marner Is Toxic
- Feb 2, 2023
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The return on a Marner trade is secondary to getting him off the team imo.
The Washington offer is overwhelming for sure. But the Leafs get a proven ready now centre with plenty of upside in exchange for a hope, a wish, and a prayer. My thinkIng is Washington only cares about OV's goals record and Tavares is still a better centre than PLD.
This trade sets them up for both the record chase and the inevitable rebuild after.
notDatsyuk
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- Jul 20, 2018
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Marner's ppg over the last four seasons has gone 1.22 - 1.35 - 1.24 - 1.23. Consistent, suggesting he will stay about the same, assuming other factors do.
Nylander's ppg over the last four seasons has gone 0.82 - 0.99 - 1.06 - 1.20. Improving each year despite the decline in his usual centre, suggesting he may continue to improve.
notDatsyuk
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- Jul 20, 2018
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So Marner is dependent on Matthews scoring (89% of his assists), while Nylander is much less dependent on Tavares (67% of his assists)?
To clarify, I'm not suggesting that they have assisted on all the goals, but just that there is a higher correlation.
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ULF_55
Moderator
I'd say any trade proposal with marner is just pure time wasting and fantasy.
Nothing wrong with fantasy, but every marner trade is about equal.
Might as well do marner and 2026 first for Draisaitl.
Trades involving players without NMC might have some validity.
At this point ... not sure exactly what will happen with Robertson.
I'm starting to think if they don't do much else that a couple kids are getting a shot and have a good chance at sticking on the roster.
If that happens I think maybe that's when we'll see a trade or 2 like kampf or Jarnkrok to free up a bit more cap space
I'm starting to think if they don't do much else that a couple kids are getting a shot and have a good chance at sticking on the roster.
If that happens I think maybe that's when we'll see a trade or 2 like kampf or Jarnkrok to free up a bit more cap space
conFABulator
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- Apr 11, 2021
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That's a fair point, but it speaks to a dip or a down year regression, rather than growth and upward development.
The trajectory usually is upward and forward progress until about 28, plateau, and then the decline. For this reason, I am not interested in paying Tavares based on past performance. If Marner only got 70 points, I would offer him less moving forward than if he got 105 points.
Seriously though, if Marner has a good season (95+ points) and then we have a different playoff story for the team and the player; maybe we lose in a hard flight conference final in six or seven, maybe Mitch is a point+ a gamer with many of those coming in big games along the way, maybe a GWG or two, then this absolutely an input into our negotiating position (for me).
I have never said that this is likely, or that I even think it would happen. I am just saying these are the circumstances where I don't just let him walk or "lowball" him. I was laying out scenarios for the season and offseason. I said we don't sign him now, we let him play it out or let him walk. We only consider a resign under circumstances like the ones I outlined above.
I still don't understand how anyone can disagree with that.
The Shadow
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- Feb 9, 2013
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What’s the deal with Nick Cousins? Is he worth a PTO? Seems strange he wasn’t signed yet for even league minimum
My gonna lie it’s hilarious that sites are now trying to use fan trades from an armchair GM tool as news
The trade in the article sure has a lot of pieces in it. Not sure why Utah would even consider it though
Why do I see everyone penciling in this Quillan guy on our roster.
1 point in 10 AHL games, 22 years old.
Never even heard of the dude before this offseason tbh.
1 point in 10 AHL games, 22 years old.
Never even heard of the dude before this offseason tbh.
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