Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 - Trade Deadline Approaches

[thusk]

Can you re-create the McCabe/Lafferty deal which essentially boiled down to a 2nd round pick in that years draft and a 1st round pick in the following year, with Connor Murphy and Jason Dickinson ?

Chicago retained 50% of McCabe's salary for the 1.5 years, which is what Murphy has on left on his contract. In terms of value I'd say they're pretty similar, but on one hand McCabe was younger at the time, and on the other Murphy plays a more coveted position in RHD.

Sam Lafferty was having a better offensive season than Dickinson at the time, but Dickinson is a much better player defensively. His price tag is expensive and Kampf would probably have to be included.

Dickinson and Murphy (50%) for 1st round 2026, 2nd round 2025, David Kampf

I wonder if that would be enough for Chicago to grab these guys to plug the 3C hole and get a partner for Rielly. Might need to add another prospect to sweeten the deal.

Chicago are not in the same spot than 2 years ago when they did everything to win Bedard lottery. Chicago want to build something around Bedard and young core and hope make a step up next year. so im not sure if they really want to move one of their top 3 dmen whos playing on shutdown pair with Vlasic, still under contract and who will maybe bring the same kind of value next year...

Its what leafs fan want but really not sure its what Chicago want

 

[aingefan]

Anyone take a peak at the +/- for the Pens? Like 10 guys with a plus minus at -10 or more.
Yet somehow Anthony Beauvillier is a +2.

 

[LeafEgo]

Chicago are not in the same spot than 2 years ago when they did everything to win Bedard lottery. Chicago want to build something around Bedard and young core and hope make a step up next year. so im not sure if they really want to move one of their top 3 dmen whos playing on shutdown pair with Vlasic, still under contract and who will maybe bring the same kind of value next year...

Its what leafs fan want but really not sure its what Chicago want

I hear you in that not everybody is always available on rebuilds, and they need to line up strength through each age bracket, but Hawks aren't making a meaningful step next year and Murphy is 31. They can't build around just Bedard.

Their recent signings suggest they are looking to trade off players and wallow for a bit, not the approach I would take, but they might as well follow through at this point.

 

[thusk]

I hear you in that not everybody is always available on rebuilds, and they need to line up strength through each age bracket, but Hawks aren't making a meaningful step next year and Murphy is 31. They can't build around just Bedard.

Their recent signings suggest they are looking to trade off players and wallow for a bit, not the approach I would take, but they might as well follow through at this point.

And they cant just throw away all their veteran and hope the young guy will develop properly... And like i said, we don't talk about a rental they would lose, we talking about one of their top 3 D still with a contract next year and in the worst case situation, been able to move him next year at TDL for pratically the same price.

So from an other view... A top 4 shutdown D with a pretty good contract where hawks would keep 50% of his salary, in a team who will certainly don't want to finish in the bottom next year and see a kind of progression with the team.. For basically the same price they could get waiting 1 year?

Unstead leafs overpay for Murphy, not sure that's making sense

 

[Budz]

I’m sorry, but getting a RD is not the priority imo.

Getting a 3C changes everything and allows us to spread offense which is what we need in the playoffs. It allows you to also redistribute Domi back to wing.

I like:
Laughton
Evans
Granlund

Lines:

Knies Matthews Domi
Patches JT Marner
McMann Laughton Nylander
Janrkok Kampf Lorentz

 

[LeafEgo]

And they cant just throw away all their veteran and hope the young guy will develop properly... And like i said, we don't talk about a rental they would lose, we talking about one of their top 3 D still with a contract next year and in the worst case situation, been able to move him next year at TDL for pratically the same price.

So from an other view... A top 4 shutdown D with a pretty good contract where hawks would keep 50% of his salary, in a team who will certainly don't want to finish in the bottom next year and see a kind of progression with the team.. For basically the same price they could get waiting 1 year?

Unstead leafs overpay for Murphy, not sure that's making sense

In isloation you're making logical points but it sounds like you're applying it to a team that has taken a different approach. They have two players on their roster between ages 23 and 29 and the Hawks are terrible. They can pivot sure, but Murphy certainly might be available.

And he obviously would not go for the same price next year.

 

[seanlinden]

I’m sorry, but getting a RD is not the priority imo.

Getting a 3C changes everything and allows us to spread offense which is what we need in the playoffs. It allows you to also redistribute Domi back to wing.

I like:
Laughton
Evans
Granlund

Lines:

Knies Matthews Domi
Patches JT Marner
McMann Laughton Nylander
Janrkok Kampf Lorentz

Given how long spreading these guys onto 3 lines has been an obvious idea to try, or even trying to make a 1A and 1B powerplay; I question whether there are simply too many large egos in the room to truly buy into the concept of rolling 3 lines.

I get that today, it's a little tough because you're missing Tavares & Pacioretty... but why not get Domi some confidence playing alongside Matthews and Knies?

Why not see what Fraser Minten can actually do and put Mitch Marner on his wing alongside a Stephen Lorentz or Max Pacioretty?

You're a month and a half away from the deadline, would it not be prudent to do at least some experimenting to see what you have, and see if you have ANY of the pieces to assemble a reasonable 3rd line?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Given how long spreading these guys onto 3 lines has been an obvious idea to try, or even trying to make a 1A and 1B powerplay; I question whether there are simply too many large egos in the room to truly buy into the concept of rolling 3 lines.

I get that today, it's a little tough because you're missing Tavares & Pacioretty... but why not get Domi some confidence playing alongside Matthews and Knies?

Why not see what Fraser Minten can actually do and put Mitch Marner on his wing alongside a Stephen Lorentz or Max Pacioretty?

You're a month and a half away from the deadline, would it not be prudent to do at least some experimenting to see what you have, and see if you have ANY of the pieces to assemble a reasonable 3rd line?

Part of the problem is we’re talking about a Domi that needs kid gloves to get him some confidence or rolling the dice on what a rookie can do instead of talking about a Nick Paul that you know for a fact can win battles, tip pucks, crash the net, and give a Marner or Nylander guaranteed playoff-ready options to work off of.

I’m the first guy to push for experimenting with stuff like 5F powerplay or Nylander/Marner at C but with the way things are between the personnel and a wildly risk-averse front office, it’s at best a temporary gimmick in January/February that has a 0% chance of getting playoff usage. Minten should get a more serious look but I don’t see it happening.

 

[Americanadian]

Kaeden Korczak was a topic of conversation this past summer. It looks like he still can't crack VGK's top 6D and it's very likely all 6 are coming back next season. He is no longer waiver eligible so he just isn't playing right now. His underlying numbers have been very strong throughout his short career.

A Robertson for Korczak swap might work for both sides given VGK's only weak spot currently is Holtz at 3RW.

 

[thusk]

In isloation you're making logical points but it sounds like you're applying it to a team that has taken a different approach. They have two players on their roster between ages 23 and 29 and the Hawks are terrible. They can pivot sure, but Murphy certainly might be available.

And he obviously would not go for the same price next year.

When they moved Mccabe, they just started the rebuild previous summer with Dach/Debrincat trade.

last 3 tjey drafted :
8 time in 1st round
5 time in 2nd
8 time in 3rd

already having 2 1st next year and 2 2nd pick. So the question, what they need the most, an other 1st pick or a player who can help those ykung player in the NHL? Hawks are closer than where Habs was last year with Savard than where they was 2 year ago so don't think rhey will get murphy at same price than McCabe... So if +/- a 1t round pick is the best they can get, yes they could get it as rental next season for a top 4 D( depending of the market)... and if in the worst case they got 2 2nd pick for him.

2x 2nd pick + one year of Murphy to help development of young player who already there or step in having more value and it's not even close to a 1st pick.

 

[Americanadian]

Domi for Lyubushkin

If Berube refuses to play Domi with Matthews and the Leafs do acquire a 3C, Domi is not a fit on this team. A reunion with Dallas could make sense. He was 4th on the Stars in playoff scoring during their run 2 seasons ago. They have Seguin out for the year and could use the offense.

Lyubushkin has been a partner for Rielly in the past in the playoffs and regular season. Lyubushkin is not worth his current contract but this would save the Leafs 500k on the cap and 1 extra year of term. This is basically a swap of bad contracts where the players return to teams they had success with in the past.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Domi for Lyubushkin

If Berube refuses to play Domi with Matthews and the Leafs do acquire a 3C, Domi is not a fit on this team. A reunion with Dallas could make sense. He was 4th on the Stars in playoff scoring during their run 2 seasons ago. They have Seguin out for the year and could use the offense.

Lyubushkin has been a partner for Rielly in the past in the playoffs and regular season. Lyubushkin is not worth his current contract but this would save the Leafs 500k on the cap and 1 extra year of term. This is basically a swap of bad contracts where the players return to teams they had success with in the past.

Can't see the Leafs moving Domi

 

[Americanadian]

Can't see the Leafs moving Domi

I also struggle to see it but if he’s not playing with Matthews he won’t live up to his contract and so far that doesn’t appear to be on the table.

 

[Fogelhund]

I also struggle to see it but if he’s not playing with Matthews he won’t live up to his contract and so far that doesn’t appear to be on the table.

His contract is $3.75 million. He's nearing 0.5PPG, after a terrible start. 11 points in the last 18 games. He's finally a part of the depth scoring that we've needed all year.

What are your expectations for $3.75 mil?

From where I'm sitting, if you can get near 0.5PPG from a depth player making that, with the utility of playing wing, or C, that's a win.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I also struggle to see it but if he’s not playing with Matthews he won’t live up to his contract and so far that doesn’t appear to be on the table.

I think basically, due to the organization right from the top never really showing any signs of wanting to spread the big 4 around, this is what we will go with when the playoffs start, regardless of it the players mesh together.

Knies Matthews Marner
Xx Tavares Nylander
Xx xx xx
Lorentz Kampf xx

If we mix in McMann, Domi and Jarnkrok, we need a LW or a Centre. I'd imagine we'll probably get more bang for the buck with a LW. That guy can play either on the 2nd line, or with Domi and Jarnkrok.

Then we might go and get a RHD.

McCabe Tanev
Rielly xx
OEL xx

Personally, given the limited resources we have, I'd look at Donato and then a RHD, with Donato being able to play wing and centre.

 

[Americanadian]

His contract is $3.75 million. He's nearing 0.5PPG, after a terrible start. 11 points in the last 18 games. He's finally a part of the depth scoring that we've needed all year.

What are your expectations for $3.75 mil?

From where I'm sitting, if you can get near 0.5PPG from a depth player making that, with the utility of playing wing, or C, that's a win.

17 pts (3 goals) in 40 GP from a defensive liability is closer to replacement level than 3.75M. Looking at players signed this summer he’s closer to Sam Steel than Warren Foegele.

I believe he can earn his contract but to suggest he has so far is wild.

 

[Fogelhund]

17 pts (3 goals) in 40 GP from a defensive liability is closer to replacement level than 3.75M. Looking at players signed this summer he’s closer to Sam Steel than Warren Foegele.

I believe he can earn his contract but to suggest he has so far is wild.

Trenin signed for $3.5 mil. He has 8 points.
Duclair at $3.5 mil has 8 points. (missed games with injury)
Arvidsson $4 mil 15 points
Perron $4 mil 9 game, zero points
Mantha $3.5 mil 7 points, just 13 games.

These are the guys I found, in his range. Foegele has outperformed, and Domi has outperformed everyone else in his salary range. You don't get PPG players at that salary, nor do you get perfect players... but at his production for the salary, he's been fine.

 

[TheShape]

Trenin signed for $3.5 mil. He has 8 points.
Duclair at $3.5 mil has 8 points. (missed games with injury)
Arvidsson $4 mil 15 points
Perron $4 mil 9 game, zero points
Mantha $3.5 mil 7 points, just 13 games.

These are the guys I found, in his range. Foegele has outperformed, and Domi has outperformed everyone else in his salary range. You don't get PPG players at that salary, nor do you get perfect players... but at his production for the salary, he's been fine.

Domi's salary aside, he's far, far from the player we saw last season. I think that's the biggest gripe for most here.

 

[Americanadian]

Trenin signed for $3.5 mil. He has 8 points.
Duclair at $3.5 mil has 8 points. (missed games with injury)
Arvidsson $4 mil 15 points
Perron $4 mil 9 game, zero points
Mantha $3.5 mil 7 points, just 13 games.

These are the guys I found, in his range. Foegele has outperformed, and Domi has outperformed everyone else in his salary range. You don't get PPG players at that salary, nor do you get perfect players... but at his production for the salary, he's been fine.

True - it’s always better to focus on injured players who don’t replicate the production from their contract year to justify a Leafs contract.

 

[Fogelhund]

True - it’s always better to focus on injured players who don’t replicate the production from their contract year to justify a Leafs contract.

Sorry, I just listed every player in the same salary bracket, including those injured, and the two who aren't. The two who haven't been, have underperformed Domi too... maybe you missed that in a quick jump to spin the discussion. Did you win internet points for this?

 

[Americanadian]

Sorry, I just listed every player in the same salary bracket, including those injured, and the two who aren't. The two who haven't been, have underperformed Domi too... maybe you missed that in a quick jump to spin the discussion. Did you win internet points for this?

Only Arvidsson on that list has played >20 games and he at least has 8 goals and isn’t a defensive liability.

Is a 35 point/6 goal pace the expectation for 3.75M?

What is an internet point?

Edit: I forgot Trenin. Hopefully that’s not the standard for Leafs fans.

 

[Fogelhund]

Only Arvidsson on that list has played >20 games and he at least has 8 goals and isn’t a defensive liability.

Is a 35 point/6 goal pace the expectation for 3.75M?

What is an internet point?

Edit: I forgot Trenin. Hopefully that’s not the standard for Leafs fans.

The question was asked of you. What are your expectations for that salary? You ignored it.

You were provided every player from $3-4 million, who signed last year as a UFA, who were forwards. You chose to focus on a reality that a number have been injured.

You listed Foegele as one player in that range, who has been excellent value at $3.5 mil, and 24 points.

I listed every other player I could find, in that data range.

Trenin signed for $3.5 mil. He has 8 points.
Duclair at $3.5 mil has 8 points. (missed games with injury)
Arvidsson $4 mil 15 points
Perron $4 mil 9 game, zero points
Mantha $3.5 mil 7 points, just 13 games.

Out of the 7 forwards signed between $3-4 mil I could find, I'd say we are getting second best value, and given the recent performances... Foegele have the same number of points over the last 18 games. In addition, Domi has the versatility to fill in at C for us, which given our situation has been invaluable.

Expectations should be for your players to perform at least to the level of their peers, signed in the same $ range. Domi is doing that. If he keeps up his last 18 game pace, that's a 50 point pace. That would be excellent value for the money, particularly given the ability to play C. He likely ends the season around 40-42 points, which is decent for the money.

I'm up for a good debate, and discussion on players, but repeatedly the pattern has to be ignore questions asked, to spin things, and focus on minutia such as.. some of these players missed games.

True - it’s always better to focus on injured players who don’t replicate the production from their contract year to justify a Leafs contract.

This is a trite response, ignoring the original questions, is argumentative, and shows an unwillingness to actually focus on the data. Be better.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Only Arvidsson on that list has played >20 games and he at least has 8 goals and isn’t a defensive liability.

Is a 35 point/6 goal pace the expectation for 3.75M?

What is an internet point?

Edit: I forgot Trenin. Hopefully that’s not the standard for Leafs fans.

Trenin is also a big physical defensive forward that kills penalties. Domi is by far the most one dimensional of those forwards.

 

[Sypher04]

Domi's salary aside, he's far, far from the player we saw last season. I think that's the biggest gripe for most here.

Is he though? To me the only real difference between last year Domi and this year Domi is that he hasn’t gotten to play with Matthews.

I think we all take away from last year how well Domi played with Matthews and Bert and forget that pretty much all the rest of the time looked very similar to this season (bouncing between wing and center, very little stability in linemates, severely limited powerplay opportunity, struggled to produce first few months of the season, not much in the way of goal production)

 

[TheShape]

Is he though? To me the only real difference between last year Domi and this year Domi is that he hasn’t gotten to play with Matthews.

I think we all take away from last year how well Domi played with Matthews and Bert and forget that pretty much all the rest of the time looked very similar to this season (bouncing between wing and center, very little stability in linemates, severely limited powerplay opportunity, struggled to produce first few months of the season, not much in the way of goal production)

Maybe I’m nitpicking but he looked a little more invested last year overall. Throwing his weight around, involved in scrums etc. You are right though, Domi took off the second half of last season with Matthews and Bertuzzi. I would’ve loved to have kept that line intact.

Domi leaves a lot to be desired, there’s a really effective player in there if he can pull his head out of his a**. There’s a reason he’s been a suitcase his entire career.