Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 Season Edition

[ULF_55]

yep probably somewhere between 12 to 20th i dont know exactly where but still better than bottom 10 like they wqs last year.

Rielly is already an older Rielly. He doesn't seem to have same jump ... maybe just me?
Tanev is old.
Ekman-Larsson is old.
McCabe will be 31 next week.

Maybe Treliving is trying to replicate the last Cup, playing 35+ defenders?
(Yes I know they are younger than that group ... sarcasm ... not everyone here has a funny bone.)

Hey worked in '67.

 

[Kiwi]

They sucked then and they suck now

He did trade engvall as he couldn't afford to extend him LT at a 3M caphit but wasn't holl gone after Dubas was fired/quit? Treliving let him walk.

Dubas messed up similarly for the pens signing Graves a similar d-man to Holl (hit better) at 6 years 4.5M and giving Accari 3 years 2ishM

Keeping Engvall, Kerfoot, holl for as long as we did was bad moves by Dubas

Treliving seems to be doing similar potentially depending on how Tanev, OEL fare

Engvall is a useful player, as is Holl
There both limited but handy at the right cap hit and if used correctly

Hell Engvall actually made Kampf look halfway decent, that's a pretty good effort

 

[hamzarocks]

Engvall is a useful player, as is Holl
There both limited but handy at the right cap hit and if used correctly

Hell Engvall actually made Kampf look halfway decent, that's a pretty good effort

Kampf made kampf look decent

Kampf has been consistent come playoffs for the leafs

Was one of our best players in 2023 playoffs vs the panthers and again was solid in 2024 playoffs vs boston

kampf at 1.5M looked amazing, now at 2.4M with Reeves he isnt as hot.

Engvall was too soft and timid with his game dropping come playoffs. He had to be removed since he isnt a playoff capable player (jarnkrok currently for the leafs also similar mould)

Holl made 2M then and 3.2M now I think, but people noticed his flaws and hot badly he could cost the team when overplayed back then too

Engvall as a 12th or 13th forward at 1-1.5M is fine, as long as he isnt in playoffs team barring injuries

Holl as a 7D at 1.3-1.5M is fine with him not being in playoffs team barring injuries

Both guys were over relied upon here by Keefe in 2020-2023 playoffs (engvall missing 2023 as we dealt to isles) which made the team weaker and unable to do well in the playoffs

 

[aingefan]

There is an argument to be made now that he's already in Berube's doghouse, that Liljegren is the guy to move over anyone else who's been discussed like Kampf/Jarnkrok/Robertson/Reaves. Those other guys have defined roles in the forward group as of now.

And once the season starts his value is just going to keep decreasing as a $3M 7D who doesn't fit Berube's system. Both the coach and player have admitted it's been a struggle already.

As a general rule, having a doghouse is dumb. I haven’t paid as much attention to coach speak, but the point should be to get everybody going.

 

[thusk]

Rielly is already an older Rielly. He doesn't seem to have same jump ... maybe just me?
Tanev is old.
Ekman-Larsson is old.
McCabe will be 31 next week.

Maybe Treliving is trying to replicate the last Cup, playing 35+ defenders?
(Yes I know they are younger than that group ... sarcasm ... not everyone here has a funny bone.)

Hey worked in '67.

Its the result of inability of dubas era to develop any D in the system. If you can't develop your own dmen, yep for sure youre d will be older.

 

[Kiwi]

Kampf made kampf look decent

Kampf has been consistent come playoffs for the leafs

Was one of our best players in 2023 playoffs vs the panthers and again was solid in 2024 playoffs vs boston

kampf at 1.5M looked amazing, now at 2.4M with Reeves he isnt as hot.

Engvall was too soft and timid with his game dropping come playoffs. He had to be removed since he isnt a playoff capable player (jarnkrok currently for the leafs also similar mould)

Holl made 2M then and 3.2M now I think, but people noticed his flaws and hot badly he could cost the team when overplayed back then too

Engvall as a 12th or 13th forward at 1-1.5M is fine, as long as he isnt in playoffs team barring injuries

Holl as a 7D at 1.3-1.5M is fine with him not being in playoffs team barring injuries

Both guys were over relied upon here by Keefe in 2020-2023 playoffs (engvall missing 2023 as we dealt to isles) which made the team weaker and unable to do well in the playoffs

Kampf blows unless he has somebody transporting the puck up ice for him like Engvall did, that's the only time Kampf has looked like a good player

Holl can give you decent minutes if you don't overtake him and give him a decent partner to lean on, he looked good with Muzzin

 

[conFABulator]

Robertson was was waiver wire fooder just two weeks ago. If he really looks like he is capable of scoring 20 to 30 goals then you are trading him at his peak now. He is not going to see PP1 playing time nor is he going to see top 2 line minutes. He is a redundant bottom 6 winger. The team is full of them.

But if you trade him at the end of camp then you are dumping him.

All it is going to take is one injury to either OEL or Rielly. There is no other defenceman in the top 8 that brings his offensive ability. Berube never said he wasn't playing him. He said he needs to do certain aspects of defence better. I think Berube is going to be quite shockign to you as he does this on a regular basis with players. Wait until he does this to Nylander or Marner.

He did both last year and the year before. Now I will agree they brought in OEL to be the second PP pointman but all it takes is one injury. He is signed for two years at 3 million so regardless of his play he is a 3million dollar defenceman.

If you want to get Sandin type value then you need to move him at the TDL and in the mean time play him to keep/build his value.

That whole thread is based on the first sentence which is opinion, not a fact. Robertson was no waiver wire fodder.

You seem to be digging in on the wrong points. I don't want to trade or dump anyone. Why would we trade a 20 to 30 goal scorer making $875K with another year of control? The Liljegren difference is his salary and contract status.

Robertson was was waiver wire fooder just two weeks ago. If he really looks like he is capable of scoring 20 to 30 goals then you are trading him at his peak now. He is not going to see PP1 playing time nor is he going to see top 2 line minutes. He is a redundant bottom 6 winger. The team is full of them.

But if you trade him at the end of camp then you are dumping him.

All it is going to take is one injury to either OEL or Rielly. There is no other defenceman in the top 8 that brings his offensive ability. Berube never said he wasn't playing him. He said he needs to do certain aspects of defence better. I think Berube is going to be quite shockign to you as he does this on a regular basis with players. Wait until he does this to Nylander or Marner.

He did both last year and the year before. Now I will agree they brought in OEL to be the second PP pointman but all it takes is one injury. He is signed for two years at 3 million so regardless of his play he is a 3million dollar defenceman.

If you want to get Sandin type value then you need to move him at the TDL and in the mean time play him to keep/build his value.

I don't believe any of us thought Robertson was waiver fodder. The reason why we don't try to trade him now with such high expectations is because he makes $875k and has a spot in the starting lineup.

Lily on the other hand might be out of the top six and making $3M per year for each of the next two. The greater concern is that he is not a Berube guy and his value continues to diminish.

As I have said several times, I would not dump him I am hopeful we can get value in the return as well as the cap space and roster spot. If you look back on here as recently as two weeks ago I had him as top four with OEL in every line up. I am not hating on the player, I am feeling the fit is not good with the new coach and style and that the right time to sell might be now.

If we lose Reilly or OEL, I would say we go Timmins or Niemela. I don't see a "huge" drop off from Lilly. They are not as good possibly, but Timmins scores at a higher rate in the NHL already.

Yeah, maybe this is Berube's style and other playera will spend time in his dog house. I don't think Liljegren responds well to this. There are always casualties with a new coach and system, maybe Lily is one here.

I agree that our best outcome is he develops into someone useful for us or as a trade chip. I guess I feel it is more likely he declines in value rather than increases it and this opinion is what is at the heart of my "move him now if we can get value" position.

 

[Puckstuff]

This top 9 would be unbelievably insane if we turned Kampf + prospects into Granlund @ 50 %


Knies-Matthews-Domi
Robertson-Granlund-Nylander
Pacioretty-Tavares-Marner
Mcmann-Lorentz-Reaves

 

[thusk]

That whole thread is based on the first sentence which is opinion, not a fact. Robertson was no waiver wire fodder.

You seem to be digging in on the wrong points. I don't want to trade or dump anyone. Why would we trade a 20 to 30 goal scorer making $875K with another year of control? The Liljegren difference is his salary and contract status.

I don't believe any of us thought Robertson was waiver fodder. The reason why we don't try to trade him now with such high expectations is because he makes $875k and has a spot in the starting lineup.

Lily on the other hand might be out of the top six and making $3M per year for each of the next two. The greater concern is that he is not a Berube guy and his value continues to diminish.

As I have said several times, I would not dump him I am hopeful we can get value in the return as well as the cap space and roster spot. If you look back on here as recently as two weeks ago I had him as top four with OEL in every line up. I am not hating on the player, I am feeling the fit is not good with the new coach and style and that the right time to sell might be now.

If we lose Reilly or OEL, I would say we go Timmins or Niemela. I don't see a "huge" drop off from Lilly. They are not as good possibly, but Timmins scores at a higher rate in the NHL already.

Yeah, maybe this is Berube's style and other playera will spend time in his dog house. I don't think Liljegren responds well to this. There are always casualties with a new coach and system, maybe Lily is one here.

I agree that our best outcome is he develops into someone useful for us or as a trade chip. I guess I feel it is more likely he declines in value rather than increases it and this opinion is what is at the heart of my "move him now if we can get value" position.

Personally i said it since maybe 2 or 3 year but for me Timmins potential is higher than Liljegren. Timmins offensively bring much more than liljegren, if hes able to elevate his defensive game to a decent game, i think his impact will be higher than what liljegren can do.

But yeah Timmins is risky with injury risk but at the same time he also missed a lot of development time...but at the end i prefer taking risk with timmins at 1,1M than Lilly at 3M

 

[hamzarocks]

Kampf blows unless he has somebody transporting the puck up ice for him like Engvall did, that's the only time Kampf has looked like a good player

Holl can give you decent minutes if you don't overtake him and give him a decent partner to lean on, he looked good with Muzzin

Kampf didnt play with engvall in 2023 playoffs and was good vs tampa and great vs panthers

Sure he may not be a puck carrier, but he is a good in zone defensive player, who has been able to be a solid shooter in the playoffs in a 4th line role for us. Good PKer as well

Holl was used to much and paid to much. He is similar ability to Benoit, except he tries to be to aggresive and thinks hes better than he was looking to make boneheaded pinches and rushes which he has no skill for.

Guys like;

Engvall, Mikheyev, kerfoot, Holl

Reeves, Jarnkrok, Benoit

shouldnt be everyday
/game players for a cup contending playoff team

 

[conFABulator]

Personally i said it since maybe 2 or 3 year but for me Timmins potential is higher than Liljegren. Timmins offensively bring much more than liljegren, if hes able to elevate his defensive game to a decent game, i think his impact will be higher than what liljegren can do.

But yeah Timmins is risky with injury risk but at the same time he also missed a lot of development time...but at the end i prefer taking risk with timmins at 1,1M than Lilly at 3M

Same. Including the worry about injury. Without that worry, I would be quite comfortable saying I prefer Timmins at 1.1 vs Liljegren at $3M.

 

[thusk]

Same. Including the worry about injury. Without that worry, I would be quite comfortable saying I prefer Timmins at 1.1 vs Liljegren at $3M.

They're Timmins, Hakanpaa depending of his injury nd in the worst case scenario, its not pretty hard to find a 6th dman come TDL at good price. A 4th round pick and you able to find a pretty good 6th

I just don't understand why people are affraid bybidea of moving lilly bu fine by waiving timmins. If it was Timmins being draft in 1st round and liljegren traded for absolutly nothing, i dont think they would see both the same way.

 

[Legion34]

So basically.


Knies. Matthews. Marner.
Domi. Tavares Nylander
Max. Holmberg. Robbi
Jarn. Kampf. Mcmann
Lorentz. Dewar?

 

[Magic Man]

Tyler Tucker is on waivers, he played 52 NHL games over the past two seasons, Conor Timmins has played the same. Berube had Tucker in St. Louis and he plays his brand of hockey. Tucker is 24, Timmins is 26.

You could make the argument that with guys like Benoit, Hakanpaa, Tanev, Myers and Rifai that the Leafs would benefit more from Timmins offense than from a bruiser like Tucker. But, it's a solid sideways tinker if they are going to do anything on waivers.

 

[MarMarSab3]

So basically.


Knies. Matthews. Marner.
Domi. Tavares Nylander
Max. Holmberg. Robbi
Jarn. Kampf. Mcmann
Lorentz. Dewar?

Knies Matthews Marner
Pacioretty Tavares Nylander
Domi Holmberg Robertson
McMann Lorentz Dewar

Jarnkrok and Kampf to the moon

 

[seanlinden]

They're Timmins, Hakanpaa depending of his injury nd in the worst case scenario, its not pretty hard to find a 6th dman come TDL at good price. A 4th round pick and you able to find a pretty good 6th

I just don't understand why people are affraid bybidea of moving lilly bu fine by waiving timmins. If it was Timmins being draft in 1st round and liljegren traded for absolutly nothing, i dont think they would see both the same way.

I think part of it comes down to not just Liljegren's draft position, but the amount of time the Leafs have spent developing him, and what he has shown in spurts here and there from an ability to control the game perspective.

Timmins on the other hand, has been in 3 systesms already in his career... and it seems that nobody has really put a meaningful effort into making him an everyday defenceman.

In an ideal world, the Leafs wouldn't have 6 defencemen that would fall in as #3-6 guys. (McCabe, OEL, Liljegren, Benoit, Hakanpaa and Timmins), and instead focus a little heavier on the top. Remove Liljegren and OEL, and get a $5.5m defenceman kind of thing.

Or, better yet, take the $3m you're spending on Liljegren, and $2.4m you're spending on Kampf, and convert it to a $4.5m centre for your 2nd/3rd line and Stephen Lorentz for the 4th line when Dewar is hurt.

 

[ULF_55]

I think part of it comes down to not just Liljegren's draft position, but the amount of time the Leafs have spent developing him, and what he has shown in spurts here and there from an ability to control the game perspective.

Timmins on the other hand, has been in 3 systesms already in his career... and it seems that nobody has really put a meaningful effort into making him an everyday defenceman.

In an ideal world, the Leafs wouldn't have 6 defencemen that would fall in as #3-6 guys. (McCabe, OEL, Liljegren, Benoit, Hakanpaa and Timmins), and instead focus a little heavier on the top. Remove Liljegren and OEL, and get a $5.5m defenceman kind of thing.

Or, better yet, take the $3m you're spending on Liljegren, and $2.4m you're spending on Kampf, and convert it to a $4.5m centre for your 2nd/3rd line and Stephen Lorentz for the 4th line when Dewar is hurt.

Treliving could have used Ekman-Larsson and Liljegren money on a $6.5mm defender in free agency.

Could have / should have?

We'll see if his conservative approach works out.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

We could use a gritty, two-way, 3C type.

Trade options (pending UFAs):

Nic Dowd
Radek Faksa
Yanni Gourde

Trade options (with term):

Boone Jenner
Scott Laughton
Jason Dickinson
Casey Cizikas
Ross Colton
Nick Bjugstad

 

[conFABulator]

Treliving could have used Ekman-Larsson and Liljegren money on a $6.5mm defender in free agency.

Could have / should have?

We'll see if his conservative approach works out.

You would have to knock around $1M off of that number because you have to replace two outgoing guys and one would cost around $1M.

Who is the FA dman we missed out on for $5.5M. Roy is the only one that comes to mind around that number and we tried on him and didn't get him....for around that number.

I would like to see Kampf, Jarnkrok and Lilly turned into a $6M dman. Parayko? Not a direct trade, but trade those guys for assets we turn into a top four D (with adds from our side too).

 

[thusk]

I think part of it comes down to not just Liljegren's draft position, but the amount of time the Leafs have spent developing him, and what he has shown in spurts here and there from an ability to control the game perspective.

Timmins on the other hand, has been in 3 systesms already in his career... and it seems that nobody has really put a meaningful effort into making him an everyday defenceman.

In an ideal world, the Leafs wouldn't have 6 defencemen that would fall in as #3-6 guys. (McCabe, OEL, Liljegren, Benoit, Hakanpaa and Timmins), and instead focus a little heavier on the top. Remove Liljegren and OEL, and get a $5.5m defenceman kind of thing.

Or, better yet, take the $3m you're spending on Liljegren, and $2.4m you're spending on Kampf, and convert it to a $4.5m centre for your 2nd/3rd line and Stephen Lorentz for the 4th line when Dewar is hurt.

I'm agree spending time on development and didn't get result you want, that's suck... But did that make him better ? yes he show some good flash but also some pretty bad too...Its like 1 good game for 3 bad...

Timmins with all the time he missed with injury, he's closer to a 22/23 Y/O D ( Like Niemela) in term of development than a 26...

Its easy to say they should be use that money for an other D than OEL but if he dont want or his price was too high... You take the best thing you can to upgrade your team

 

[OVO16]

We could use a gritty, two-way, 3C type.

Trade options (pending UFAs):

Nic Dowd
Radek Faksa
Yanni Gourde

Trade options (with term):

Boone Jenner
Scott Laughton
Jason Dickinson
Casey Cizikas
Ross Colton
Nick Bjugstad

Yeah I think its pretty obvious that this is most likely going to be a our trade deadline acquisition target. A forward will be our focus and I have to assume a center.

A gritty two way center. I know Scott Laughton has been linked to us in the past. I can see him a trade target. I dont see the flyers going anywhere this season

 

[WTFMAN99]

Under the radar addition and not as gritty but Christian Dvorak at centre?

 

[Fogelhund]

The Toronto Maple Leafs announced today that the hockey club has signed forwards Max Pacioretty and Steven Lorentz while defenceman Cade Webber has signed a contract extension.
Pacioretty, 35, signed a one-year contract with an annual average value of $873,770. He skated in 47 games for the Washington Capitals last season, recording 23 points (4 goals, 19 assists) and skated in four playoff games. In 902 career NHL regular season games, the New Canaan, CT native has registered 668 points (330 goals, 338 assists) while adding 50 points (25 goals, 25 assists) in 78 playoff games.
Pacioretty was originally drafted by Montreal in the first round (22nd overall) of the 2007 NHL Draft.
Lorentz, 28, signed a one-year contract with an annual average value of $775,000. He recorded three points (one goal, two assists) in 38 games with the Florida Panthers during the 2023-24 regular season while adding three points (two goals, one assist) in 16 playoff games, winning the 2024 Stanley Cup with the Panthers.
The 6'4, 216-pound forward has posted 43 points (21 goals, 22 assists) in 230 career regular season NHL games split between Florida, San Jose and Carolina Thile also congrung six poc asstwo goals, 175 assists

Max Pacioretty signs a one-year deal as expected:
Cap hit is $873,770.
Total compensation is $1.5 million.
Base salary: $873,770.
Performance bonuses:
10 games played: $313,115
35 games played: $313,115

 

[ULF_55]

You would have to knock around $1M off of that number because you have to replace two outgoing guys and one would cost around $1M.

Who is the FA dman we missed out on for $5.5M. Roy is the only one that comes to mind around that number and we tried on him and didn't get him....for around that number.

I would like to see Kampf, Jarnkrok and Lilly turned into a $6M dman. Parayko? Not a direct trade, but trade those guys for assets we turn into a top four D (with adds from our side too).

Yeah, they would have had to make other changes. Keep in mind, team isn't even set today, Pacioretty and Lorentz aren't on the team yet.

The point is they have gambled on 2 very suspect defenders in Ekman-Larssen and Hakanpaa (like both, hope they stay/get healthy).

32% of the fans think Rifai should be on the team over Liljegren, and that would have been $775k.

But it does keep interest up wrt, How is Treliving going to fit another $2mm in players into $30k of space?

Might be done before I finish typing ...

 

[OVO16]

So where are we Cap-wise