Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 Season Edition

[ULF_55]

Timmins waived and Rifai up and with Hakanpaa on LTIR, it would have been enough cap space to fit Patches and Lorentz. So unless I'm missing something or unless Pacioretty is signing a league min deal, they need to find ~800k in cap space.

Or someone else is going on LTIR.

Pending trade announcement?

Tavares for ... Jenner ... captain for captain.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Pierre Engvall and Justin Holl on waivers . Oh man i have PTSD. These were Dubas's guys

Cant believe we held on to both of them for as long as we did

At least it only cost us Jared McCann

 

[crump]

Little surprised Engvall is on waivers unless it's a play to hope he gets claimed. Just looking at his statline from last season and the few games I saw him play he was the same player he's been throughout his career.

Holl took a big step back in Detroit last year, that's much less surprising to me.

The waiver list is long, but not as long as Engvall’s neck. Too bad. Someone might pick him up. He’s a decent bottom sixer on a non playoff team. (Edit: ooof 6 years left on that 3AAV contract.) Someone need to reach the floor?

 

[al secord]

Have we claimed Engvall yet?

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

do you think people around the league will watch an guy from a average D ( even if upgrade leafs D still average) unable to crack the line up except because an injury at 3M and will have an interest coming TDL for this guy???

I dont want to trade him now to don't lost value, but to don't get stick with his 3M contract for an healthy scratch player who doesn't fit in Berube system. Liljegren can become pretty fast a pretty bad contract.

100% they will be interested in him if he becomes available as he has played over 100 games in the NHL. Last season played 19+ minutes a game and scores 0.40 points a game which over 80 games thats roughly 35 points. Makes about 2 million less than comparable defenceman (see Sandin and Durzi). So yes he will have value even if he starts this season as the 7th defenceman.

A 2 year 3million dollar contract with the Leafs having over 30 million in cap space next year cannot become a pretty bad contract. Absulote worse case scenario they waive him. He is claimed with in minutes

 

[LeafSteel]

Have we claimed Engvall yet?

 

[crump]

Holl, Engvall, Reimer, Zack Aston-Reece, Lagesson , we could start an alumni team.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Except we need Robertson and Timmins. They make nothing and can contribute and may have upside.

If Lilly is really seventh or lower on the doeth chart, we should move him. Timmins has no value, so he can't lose value. It's not about panicking it is about maximizing the return for redundant pieces.

What is the best realistic outcome for Liljegren? Tha the continues to develop, becomes a top four in the next year or so, as f then hits UFA and commands Sandin or greater money? No thanks.

If it is about maximizing returns on redundant pieces then Robertson is the first person that should be traded.

Up until a week ago Timmins was useless and would not be missed if he is waived. Now he can contribute and has upside. So I would say the samething about Liljegren. Right now he is where Timmins was a 2 weeks ago and two weeks from now people will be posting how we need to trade Jarnkok, Robertson, or Timmins now while the team can still get something.

Injuries will happen. When they do you have a player in Liljegren who can play 19 minutes a game and play on the 2nd PP instead of having to trade assets to find a similar player.

 

[BM14]

The mistake was to resign him at this salary

Agree to disagree.

 

[Menzinger]

If the Leafs do plan on trading Lily, it certainly begs the question of why they didn't do it a few months earlier.

Lily needs to get prime icetime with that caphit. Having him as a 7/6 is self defeating for the team.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

I know we don't have the space but with the 50 something players on waivers today, would anyone be interested in picking up any of these guys?

 

[Menzinger]

I know we don't have the space but with the 50 something players on waivers today, would anyone be interested in picking up any of these guys?

Not really from the Leafs pov..there's a few guys a rebuilding team could/should take a gamble on yho

 

[conFABulator]

If it is about maximizing returns on redundant pieces then Robertson is the first person that should be traded.

Up until a week ago Timmins was useless and would not be missed if he is waived. Now he can contribute and has upside. So I would say the samething about Liljegren. Right now he is where Timmins was a 2 weeks ago and two weeks from now people will be posting how we need to trade Jarnkok, Robertson, or Timmins now while the team can still get something.

Injuries will happen. When they do you have a player in Liljegren who can play 19 minutes a game and play on the 2nd PP instead of having to trade assets to find a similar player.

I am not sure what makes Robertson redundant. Do we have a bunch of young wingers capable of scoring 20 to 30 goals while making $875K per year?

Timmins has no value, but he makes a third of what Liljegren makes. If he made the same money I would want him out too. I am not advocating to dump Liljegren. I think he has value and upside. I am not sure that it lines up with our needs or timing.

I don't believe he cracks the top four this year based on his history, his current play, his body language, and Berube's words. I think we have seen a mental fragility from Lily before so this is not based on two and half weeks of camp.

He doesn't seem like a guy that is going to get 19 minutes a night or PP time. He seems like a guy that is fighting for the sixth spot with Hakanpaa, Timmins, Rifai and Myers and that we might have a Liljegren jr in Niemela. The can't win we are in is that even if Lilly improves slightly he becomes a $4M or $5M dman and then we are going to want to get our from that. If he doesn't improve his value decreases. I don't see him becoming an #1 or an AHLer, that middle area where he likely ends up is what I want us to avoid.

If we can't get value back for Liljegren we should keep him and try to raise his value either for us or in a trade. We got a first and a rental for Sandin.

 

[thusk]

100% they will be interested in him if he becomes available as he has played over 100 games in the NHL. Last season played 19+ minutes a game and scores 0.40 points a game which over 80 games thats roughly 35 points. Makes about 2 million less than comparable defenceman (see Sandin and Durzi). So yes he will have value even if he starts this season as the 7th defenceman.

A 2 year 3million dollar contract with the Leafs having over 30 million in cap space next year cannot become a pretty bad contract. Absulote worse case scenario they waive him. He is claimed with in minutes

100 game and playing 19 m in one of worst d group in the entire NHL is not whaylt's raising up his value..

hes start 7th when Hakanpaa will be back, Liljegren would be probably fall as 8th in leafs depht behind timmins and hakanpaa. If Liljegren don't play, his value will only drop, nothing else.

 

[thusk]

So 16th. ranked?

14th. - 20th.

So d-corps not one of their strong points.

And that is very dependent on older vets.

yep probably somewhere between 12 to 20th i dont know exactly where but still better than bottom 10 like they wqs last year.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I am not sure what makes Robertson redundant. Do we have a bunch of young wingers capable of scoring 20 to 30 goals while making $875K per year?

Timmins has no value, but he makes a third of what Liljegren makes. If he made the same money I would want him out too. I am not advocating to dump Liljegren. I think he has value and upside. I am not sure that it lines up with our needs or timing.

I don't believe he cracks the top four this year based on his history, his current play, his body language, and Berube's words. I think we have seen a mental fragility from Lily before so this is not based on two and half weeks of camp.

He doesn't seem like a guy that is going to get 19 minutes a night or PP time. He seems like a guy that is fighting for the sixth spot with Hakanpaa, Timmins, Rifai and Myers and that we might have a Liljegren jr in Niemela. The can't win we are in is that even if Lilly improves slightly he becomes a $4M or $5M dman and then we are going to want to get our from that. If he doesn't improve his value decreases. I don't see him becoming an #1 or an AHLer, that middle area where he likely ends up is what I want us to avoid.

If we can't get value back for Liljegren we should keep him and try to raise his value either for us or in a trade. We got a first and a rental for Sandin.

Robertson was was waiver wire fooder just two weeks ago. If he really looks like he is capable of scoring 20 to 30 goals then you are trading him at his peak now. He is not going to see PP1 playing time nor is he going to see top 2 line minutes. He is a redundant bottom 6 winger. The team is full of them.

But if you trade him at the end of camp then you are dumping him.

All it is going to take is one injury to either OEL or Rielly. There is no other defenceman in the top 8 that brings his offensive ability. Berube never said he wasn't playing him. He said he needs to do certain aspects of defence better. I think Berube is going to be quite shockign to you as he does this on a regular basis with players. Wait until he does this to Nylander or Marner.

He did both last year and the year before. Now I will agree they brought in OEL to be the second PP pointman but all it takes is one injury. He is signed for two years at 3 million so regardless of his play he is a 3million dollar defenceman.

If you want to get Sandin type value then you need to move him at the TDL and in the mean time play him to keep/build his value.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

100 game and playing 19 m in one of worst d group in the entire NHL is not whaylt's raising up his value..

hes start 7th when Hakanpaa will be back, Liljegren would be probably fall as 8th in leafs depht behind timmins and hakanpaa. If Liljegren don't play, his value will only drop, nothing else.

That is over the last 3 years he has played in the top 4 at times. So are you telling me it was one of the worst d groups 3 years ago or even 2 years ago? They were top 10 when he made it onto the team full time. He played 61 games and finished 11 in calder voting.
Season hasn't even started and Hakanpaa is months away from playing. In Timmins entire career he hasn't played more than 31 games in an entire season. Expecting him to play an entire season is foolish. Liljegren will play and most likely a lot more than you expect.

 

[Kiwi]

Rifai on waivers?

He's looked pretty good, you would have to think he's a chance of getting plucked
He's been solid when ever I've watched him

 

[hamzarocks]

He let Holl walk and traded Engvall. They were serviceable players at the cap hits they were on when they were here.

They sucked then and they suck now

He did trade engvall as he couldn't afford to extend him LT at a 3M caphit but wasn't holl gone after Dubas was fired/quit? Treliving let him walk.

Dubas messed up similarly for the pens signing Graves a similar d-man to Holl (hit better) at 6 years 4.5M and giving Accari 3 years 2ishM

Keeping Engvall, Kerfoot, holl for as long as we did was bad moves by Dubas

Treliving seems to be doing similar potentially depending on how Tanev, OEL fare

 

[aingefan]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1842987308020294132

Disaster move by Lou

I haven’t followed him since the trade, but I like Pierre. Guy can fly, and can make a pk dangerous.
Not at those terms obvi.
Ps, which Foudy is that?

 

[thusk]

[/QUOTE]

That is over the last 3 years he has played in the top 4 at times. So are you telling me it was one of the worst d groups 3 years ago or even 2 years ago? They were top 10 when he made it onto the team full time. He played 61 games and finished 11 in calder voting.
Season hasn't even started and Hakanpaa is months away from playing. In Timmins entire career he hasn't played more than 31 games in an entire season. Expecting him to play an entire season is foolish. Liljegren will play and most likely a lot more than you expect.

he played top 4 at time in a team who desesperally need help at especially RHD...Even Travis Dermott played top 4 at time, did that made him a better D?!?!?!

Liljegren had been able to look good 1st half of regular season but when the game start to be faster with less space on 2nd half, years after year he failed every time.

 

[aingefan]

If it is about maximizing returns on redundant pieces then Robertson is the first person that should be traded.

Up until a week ago Timmins was useless and would not be missed if he is waived. Now he can contribute and has upside. So I would say the samething about Liljegren. Right now he is where Timmins was a 2 weeks ago and two weeks from now people will be posting how we need to trade Jarnkok, Robertson, or Timmins now while the team can still get something.

Injuries will happen. When they do you have a player in Liljegren who can play 19 minutes a game and play on the 2nd PP instead of having to trade assets to find a similar player.

Everyone on the right side is an injury risk, so depth matters.
If Lili didn’t have bad injury luck to date, this is a moot discussion.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

he played top 4 at time in a team who desesperally need help at especially RHD...Even Travis Dermott played top 4 at time, did that made him a better D?!?!?!

Liljegren had been able to look good 1st half of regular season but when the game start to be faster with less space on 2nd half, years after year he failed every time.
[/QUOTE]

Why are you trying to use a player who was not on the last 3 teams as a comparision? You stated that Liljegren only played top 4 minutes on horrible defences and I pointed out that clearly he did not. Dermott has nothing to do with the argument.

If Liljegren looks good every year in the 1st half of the season (that is before the TDL) then how will his value tank? Would it not make sense to keep him and play him in the 1st half of the season, raise his value then trade him?

 

[tmlfan98]

There is an argument to be made now that he's already in Berube's doghouse, that Liljegren is the guy to move over anyone else who's been discussed like Kampf/Jarnkrok/Robertson/Reaves. Those other guys have defined roles in the forward group as of now.

And once the season starts his value is just going to keep decreasing as a $3M 7D who doesn't fit Berube's system. Both the coach and player have admitted it's been a struggle already.

 

[thusk]

Why are you trying to use a player who was not on the last 3 teams as a comparision? You stated that Liljegren only played top 4 minutes on horrible defences and I pointed out that clearly he did not. Dermott has nothing to do with the argument.

If Liljegren looks good every year in the 1st half of the season (that is before the TDL) then how will his value tank? Would it not make sense to keep him and play him in the 1st half of the season, raise his value then trade him?

1-the fact leafs foward had been able to help d enough to overcome leafs group weakness doesn't mean than the D group was good.

2-A guy like liljegren who struggling on 1v1 battle In a Berube system where 1v1 battle are extremely important. He will NEVER play as much in Berube system than he did on keefe system