Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 Season Edition

Does O’Rielly make the Leafs better?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 57.1%
  • No

    Votes: 24 38.1%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
23,672
28,147
I don't see how it gets any better even if you wait 3 months. They will still want a center, they've been saying it since training camp. And yeah injuries and other issues could arise by the deadline, but the issue will always be the need for a center upgrade.

Who are you trying to upgrade? Matthews? Tavares? Kampf?

Only spot I see that’s upgradable is 3C. Minten has been hot and cold, but between 0.4 and 0.5 PPG is pretty much what you’d expect out of a 3C. If he finds a way to be more consistent and continues at an acceptable scoring pace, then perhaps there isn’t that need. You need to wait to see if he can claim that spot, so we don’t waste assets on a rental to accomplish the same thing he might be able to.
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
55,022
39,490
Who are you trying to upgrade? Matthews? Tavares? Kampf?

Only spot I see that’s upgradable is 3C. Minten has been hot and cold, but between 0.4 and 0.5 PPG is pretty much what you’d expect out of a 3C. If he finds a way to be more consistent and continues at an acceptable scoring pace, then perhaps there isn’t that need. You need to wait to see if he can claim that spot, so we don’t waste assets on a rental to accomplish the same thing he might be able to.

Minten is fine but he's not 100% ready. It's much better to push him back to the Marlies and let him be the first call-up. We're an injury away from Minten being a top 6 center. It's not just about scoring, it's about the overall impact and creating better depth. We're gonna wait mainly because we have time but I can guarantee you that by trade deadline, the need is going to be a center regardless of Minten and health.

Kampf just sucks but we're stuck with him. But looks like he's gonna be back soon.
 
Last edited:

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
23,672
28,147
Minten is fine but he's not 100% ready. It's much better to push him back to the Marlies and let him be the first call-up. We're an injury away from Minten being a top 6 center. It's not just about scoring, it's about the overall impact and creating better depth.

We don't know if Minten is ready, unless we give him a run, particularly with healthy and steady linemates. It's premature to say he's not 100% ready, or to crown him the 3C. Domi has done reasonably well as a top 6C, in spots.... I mean in all seriousness, name a team with a top 6C, playing as a 3C, excepting developing players? What's the most points a Stanley Cup finalist, has got out of their 3C in a regular season that last couple of years? I think it's Lundell, with 35 points last year.

Florida had 80, 41, 35 and 15 points out of their C's. Nobody has a potential 50-60 point C, as their 3C, it's just not a norm, nor a reasonable expectation.

The most recent example of someone trying to get a 2C, and putting them with 3C minutes is Edmonton Oilers, with Henrique, who really looked like a good pickup for them, and a guy people around here talked about. With the reduced minutes as a 3C, he's on 9 points, after 28 games. His points per 60 is 1.05. Minten's points per 60 is 1.76. You reduce players TOI, and they typically become less effective.

We need to be patient on Minten, and see what he's capable of. I'm not saying he's the guy, but we have plenty of time to make changes, 16 games between now and Jan 14th.... so I'd give him that run, give teams time to fall out of the playoffs, and make a decision then... no rush. See if he's good enough, make the calls to see who is available, and what the cost to obtain them is. It also gives time to see if that's is indeed our biggest need... we don't know if a Goalie, a Winger, or a top D has a season ending injury... and if we make that trade now, and don't have the assets left... we won't be able to fix that hole.

Minten is fine but he's not 100% ready. It's much better to push him back to the Marlies and let him be the first call-up. We're an injury away from Minten being a top 6 center. It's not just about scoring, it's about the overall impact and creating better depth. We're gonna wait mainly because we have time but I can guarantee you that by trade deadline, the need is going to be a center regardless of Minten and health.

Kampf just sucks but we're stuck with him. But looks like he's gonna be back soon.
You've edited some...

Kampf is fine for a 4C... he's just overpaid... there really aren't too many better 4C's... just more appropriately paid.
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
55,022
39,490
We don't know if Minten is ready, unless we give him a run, particularly with healthy and steady linemates. It's premature to say he's not 100% ready, or to crown him the 3C. Domi has done reasonably well as a top 6C, in spots.... I mean in all seriousness, name a team with a top 6C, playing as a 3C, excepting developing players? What's the most points a Stanley Cup finalist, has got out of their 3C in a regular season that last couple of years? I think it's Lundell, with 35 points last year.

Florida had 80, 41, 35 and 15 points out of their C's. Nobody has a potential 50-60 point C, as their 3C, it's just not a norm, nor a reasonable expectation.

The most recent example of someone trying to get a 2C, and putting them with 3C minutes is Edmonton Oilers, with Henrique, who really looked like a good pickup for them, and a guy people around here talked about. With the reduced minutes as a 3C, he's on 9 points, after 28 games. His points per 60 is 1.05. Minten's points per 60 is 1.76. You reduce players TOI, and they typically become less effective.

We need to be patient on Minten, and see what he's capable of. I'm not saying he's the guy, but we have plenty of time to make changes, 16 games between now and Jan 14th.... so I'd give him that run, give teams time to fall out of the playoffs, and make a decision then... no rush. See if he's good enough, make the calls to see who is available, and what the cost to obtain them is. It also gives time to see if that's is indeed our biggest need... we don't know if a Goalie, a Winger, or a top D has a season ending injury... and if we make that trade now, and don't have the assets left... we won't be able to fix that hole.


You've edited some...

Kampf is fine for a 4C... he's just overpaid... there really aren't too many better 4C's... just more appropriately paid.

Nobody is saying to make a trade yesterday. It's just mainly discussing points of interest and where the additions should be added. The whole team could break their leg, which changes everything. There's going to be plenty of time before the Leafs are ready to shop seriously. The priority right now should be adding better quality down the middle, for depth and overall effectiveness. If a really good center hits the market, I don't hesitate to see what I can do though. Minten is holding the fort and gaining experience right now, which is good.

Kampf is fine if you remove the salary cap.
 

ULF_55

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Feb 27, 2002
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What exactly would you call impressive for a $3 mil forward then?

I stand correct. I am wrong about Domi. :blush:


I thought he was a top 6 forward. Not sure why people keep pushing him to play with Matthews.

He has a career 16 goals per 82 games.
Career average 51 points per 82 games.

So, yes as a 3rd. liner he's okay, but $3.75mm for 9 goals is kind of high.

Last 5 seasons, plus this year:
Games - 377
Goals - 66
Points - 216

47 point player
14 goal player

He doesn't PK, but does get PP time.

Money is part of it but if Tavares with 65 points and 29 goals isn't a 1st. liner then Domi with 47 points and 9 goals isn't a 2nd. liner regardless of money.
 
Last edited:

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
23,672
28,147
I stand correct. I am wrong about Domi. :blush:


I thought he was a top 6 forward. Not sure why people keep pushing him to play with Matthews.

He has a career 16 goals per 82 games.
Career average 51 points per 82 games.

So, yes as a 3rd. liner he's okay, but $3.75mm for 9 goals is kind of high.

Last 5 seasons, plus this year:
Games - 377
Goals - 66
Points - 216

47 point player
14 goal player

He doesn't PK, but does get PP time.

Money is part of it but if Tavares with 65 points and 29 goals isn't a 1st. liner then Domi with 47 points in 9 goals isn't a 2nd. liner regardless of money.

I'm not suggesting that Domi is a second line player.. but keep in mind, that the 5th highest scoring Panther last year had 41 points. The 5th highest scoring Oiler forward had 44 points. I'd agree that he needs to shoot more, and score more. But he also shouldn't be higher than our 7th highest scorer this year for forwards, so the expectation of what you get for that in production, should be kept in check. The reality is, his production last year was clearly in line with what most teams are getting out of their second liners.
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,589
19,458
Mountain Standard Ti
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I'm not suggesting that Domi is a second line player.. but keep in mind, that the 5th highest scoring Panther last year had 41 points. The 5th highest scoring Oiler forward had 44 points. I'd agree that he needs to shoot more, and score more. But he also shouldn't be higher than our 7th highest scorer this year for forwards, so the expectation of what you get for that in production, should be kept in check. The reality is, his production last year was clearly in line with what most teams are getting out of their second liners.

His goal scoring is more like a defenseman would get.

9 goals last year would be tied for 36th. amongst defenders, including Ekman-Larsson.

And, yes UFA are overpaid.
 

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