GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Rare Jewel]

Why Montour over Roy?

Because Tanev will be the other one they sign.

But he's also very good. But I'm skeptical when it comes to Americans choosing Canadian market in free agency.

 

[Scion]

I saw on the Panthers board some saying his ask was 8-9m. Yikes.
Forsling is their best all around defensemen. 6m in Florida should be Montour's cutoff.

Yup...

 

[Fogelhund]

Because Tanev will be the other one they sign.

But he's also very good. But I'm skeptical when it comes to Americans choosing Canadian market in free agency.

That's doesn't answer my question though.

How is Montour + Tanev ok, but Roy + Tanev not?

 

[SprDaVE]

Barrie is not his worst comparable, in fact Barrie had done more offensively at the same age. They are both smaller defenceman that create offense by transporting the puck and shooting a high volume. Neither are good defensively, and both take shots away from better players.

I think people overvalue Montour because he had 70 points last year and plays in a system that compliments his game. On the Toronto Maple Leafs he is a bottom pairing guy, IMO. I've also heard he is a guy that fights for every penny so no thanks.

Barrie has never been a 23+ minute defenseman for any team he played for like Montour has for one of the best teams in the league. And he's been really good at both ends of the end, so I'm not sure that's accurate either. This team desperately needs a defenseman that can transport a puck, be able to make plays and create high volume shots... I fail to see how that's a bad thing?

I don't think Montour is a 70 point defenseman. I think he's a capable 22+ minute defenseman that can finally give the Leafs a shot, skating and skill combo from the backend they've lacked outside of Rielly doing it. You can still add the big meatheads or defensive defenseman around him and the rest of the core.

There is a reason Florida isn't giving him the money he wants.

You can say that about Pesce, Zadorov and Tanev as well. Any free agent hits the market for one reason or another. Florida is completely capped out and it would be the main reason Montour would walk -- not because he sucks. Reinhart might very well become a UFA as well.

 

[Scion]

That's doesn't answer my question though.

How is Montour + Tanev ok, but Roy + Tanev not?

I love Matt Roy, but if the price is similar I think I would give Zadorov the edge because of his size. They are both a 4/5 on a championship team for me.

 

[Scion]

Barrie has never been a 23+ minute defenseman for any team he played for like Montour has for one of the best teams in the league. And he's been really good at both ends of the end, so I'm not sure that's accurate either. This team desperately needs a defenseman that can transport a puck, be able to make plays and create high volume shots... I fail to see how that's a bad thing?

I don't think Montour is a 70 point defenseman. I think he's a capable 22+ minute defenseman that can finally give the Leafs a shot, skating and skill combo from the backend they've lacked outside of Rielly doing it. You can still add the big meatheads or defensive defenseman around him and the rest of the core.



You can say that about Pesce, Zadorov and Tanev as well. Any free agent hits the market for one reason or another. Florida is completely capped out and it would be the main reason Montour would walk -- not because he sucks. Reinhart might very well become a UFA as well.

I will give you more minutes, Montour has unbelievable cardio much like Forsling. He's not good defensively though, and never has been. The system makes everyone look better on that end because they spend so much more time in the OZ, he will not have the same luxury in Toronto.

 

[Scion]

You can say that about Pesce, Zadorov and Tanev as well. Any free agent hits the market for one reason or another. Florida is completely capped out and it would be the main reason Montour would walk -- not because he sucks. Reinhart might very well become a UFA as well.

Forsling got paid, and Reinhart will get 9.5M at the conclusion of the season. The one guy that will test the market is Montour, and there is a reason for that.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Also Florida did not choose Forsling over Montour because he is 2 years younger, they chose Forsling because he is their best defenceman and one of the best defensive defencemen in the league. It's criminal how underrated he is, and overrated Montour is. All because of points!

Well, they did, maybe because they share your opinion of him, but they have 19m cap space with 10-12 players signed.

Maybe they would like to keep him @ 5 or 5.5, but for cap reasons, they can't. perhaps he also wants to see what's out there.

Also, it's not all points, the points are nice, but it's the puck movement as well for what is turning out to be a rather stogy D group.

 

[SprDaVE]

I will give you more minutes, Montour has unbelievable cardio much like Forsling. He's not good defensively though, and never has been. The system makes everyone look better on that end because they spend so much more time in the OZ, he will not have the same luxury in Toronto.

I don't understand why we're comparing both to each other -- You can have more than 1 good defenseman on a team regardless. I don't think Montour is a world class defenseman here. He's just a very good RHD that would give the Leafs skating and offensive skill from the back end, and he's shown to be incredibly trusted to play tons of minutes for the best team in the East. And this team needs a defenseman that can make plays from the defensive zone to the offensive zone.

Forsling got paid, and Reinhart will get 9.5M at the conclusion of the season. The one guy that will test the market is Montour, and there is a reason for that.

I'll believe it when it happens. They have zero cap space to do that and if they do give Reinhart 9.5M -- Verhaeghe probably walks. What then? Does he suck too because they chose X Y Z over him?

If Montour is let go because the Panthers think he sucks -- what does that mean for Pesce and Zadorov? Seems like we're pushing goal posts around for narratives that keep changing.

 

[Evilhomer]

But I'm skeptical when it comes to Americans choosing Canadian market in free agency.

Me too, especially guys that have played their entire amateur and professional careers in the US.

 

[Scion]

I don't understand why we're comparing both to each other -- You can have more than 1 good defenseman on a team regardless. I don't think Montour is a world class defenseman here. He's just a very good RHD that would give the Leafs skating and offensive skill from the back end, and he's shown to be incredibly trusted to play tons of minutes for the best team in the East. And this team needs a defenseman that can make plays from the defensive zone to the offensive zone.

It makes too much sense to me.



I'll believe it when it happens.

You don't pay decent puck moving defenceman 7M+

 

[613Leafer]

I love Matt Roy, but if the price is similar I think I would give Zadorov the edge because of his size. They are both a 4/5 on a championship team for me.

Roy has averaged almost 1.5 minutes more per game than Zadorov over his career. Roy I think is more of a #3, plus is more versatile.

 

[Scion]

Well, they did, maybe because they share your opinion of him, but they have 19m cap space with 10-12 players signed.

Maybe they would like to keep him @ 5 or 5.5, but for cap reasons, they can't. perhaps he also wants to see what's out there.

Also, it's not all points, the points are nice, but it's the puck movement as well for what is turning out to be a rather stogy D group.

Montour is not signing for 5.5M... Best case scenario the market for him isn't what he thinks it is and he takes a one year prove it deal like Bertuzzi.

 

[SprDaVE]

You don't pay decent puck moving defenceman 7M+

He plays 23+ minutes a game. How is that just "decent" lol... I just don't understand the problem. But sure, he's decent I guess. Let's give 5M+ to 34 year old Tanev, he will surely not regress and he'll be awesome defensively.

 

[Rare Jewel]

That's doesn't answer my question though.

How is Montour + Tanev ok, but Roy + Tanev not?

Well, I think Tanev is a near-lock to be signed, and if he is, then stylistically, I'd rather have a more offensive puck mover to play with McCabe.

If by chance they don't sign Tanev and they sign Pesce or Roy, then somebody else who's more offensive still, but then, likely not Montour because of the terms and money you would need for Roy or Pesce.

 

[Scion]

Roy has averaged almost 1.5 minutes more per game than Zadorov over his career. Roy I think is more of a #3, plus is more versatile.

Hence, "on a championship team." Roy is probably a better overall player, but the size and physicality combo of Zadorov make him invaluable in the playoffs. For my money they are both 4/5's in the perfect situation, but you could definitely slot them up a spot given the fact that no teams are perfect with the cap.

 

[Rare Jewel]

You don't pay decent puck moving defenceman 7M+

*looks at Rielly*



Sure you do!

 

[Scion]

He plays 23+ minutes a game. How is that just "decent" lol... I just don't understand the problem. But sure, he's decent I guess. Let's give 5M+ to 34 year old Tanev, he will surely not regress and he'll be awesome defensively.

Morgan Rielly and Brandon Montour are not both playing 23 minutes in Toronto...

*looks at Rielly*



Sure you do!

Morgan Rielly is an elite puck moving defenceman and well below average defensive defenceman. He is also a much better player than Brandon Montour, and that should scare you.

 

[SprDaVE]

Morgan Rielly and Brandon Montour are not both playing 23 minutes in Toronto...

They don't have to? What I'm saying is that Montour isn't playing low event minutes or getting Ozone starts only. He plays a lot, and not just from the PP, it's all even strength. You don't get to play that many minutes by struggling defensively on the best team in the East. But what do I know, maybe Maurice knows a bit more than us though.

If Toronto signs him, they will likely be able to balance their pairings, it gives them depth and more mobility to a blue-line that sorely lacked it. The idea that you can't have more than 1 capable mobile puck moving defenseman is archaic and just wrong.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Forsling got paid, and Reinhart will get 9.5M at the conclusion of the season. The one guy that will test the market is Montour, and there is a reason for that.

Well, Reinhart hasn't signed yet, and perhaps that's keeping them from committing to Montour.

In that case, it's not quite the indictment that you claim it is.

 

[SprDaVE]

I saw on the Panthers board some saying his ask was 8-9m. Yikes.
Forsling is their best all around defensemen. 6m in Florida should be Montour's cutoff.

There's always a limit how much you pay a player in free agency. I'd be shocked if he got that but maybe a desperate team like SJS or Utah gives it to him. I think around what Orlov got seems more appropriate -- 7M but with term.

 

[rumman]

Paul goes in the trunk.

you'd still be able to here him whining though...........

 

[ToneDog]

I'd drive the entire Marner clan to the airport and even let Paul ride shotgun.

A shame Hawks are not dumb enough to make that trade. Let's see, they get to pay Marner 11.5m for 8 years, pay Jones 1.5m for 6 more years and add a first and a second. Good Luck.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Morgan Rielly is an elite puck moving defenceman and well below average defensive defenceman. He is also a much better player than Brandon Montour, and that should scare you.

If you say so...

From what I've seen in at least three playoff rounds from Montour up close, he brings no less than what Rielly brings defensively. In fact, I'd argue more, but I won't belabor that.

But If you're saying that Florida system or style guard Montour, well, that's the case for a lot of D men, particularly the offensive ones. Look at Karlsson or Subban down the years. Do you think Evan Bouchard would look as good as he does if he were in San Jose or Anaheim? No, he's got Mattias Ekholm next to him on a team., that can defend.

Is the system here going to be bad? Is he going to be getting 65% DZS now that he's in Toronto? No chance. Put him with the right guy (McCabe) and use him like he is in Florida.

 

[rumman]

A shame Hawks are not dumb enough to make that trade. Let's see, they get to pay Marner 11.5m for 8 years, pay Jones 1.5m for 6 more years and add a first and a second. Good Luck.

I don't get the feeling Jones is the right D man for this team..........