Americanadian
Registered User
I don’t disagree with any of this but if you want to actually compete in this league you should be able to compare contracts with players that play in the same league under the same rules.
GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition
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TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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I don't think Marner would go to Columbus, but if he would, would you take on Gaudreau's awful contract?
Marner (10.5) + Kampf (2.4M) to Columbus for Gaudreau (9.7M) + Jenner (3M) + Jiricek + Brindley.
Columbus dumps Gaudreau and finds a young running mate for Fantilli, plus a temp replacement for Jenner.
Leafs get a 2-way center, a top 6 left winger, a young potential top pairing RD, and a young middle six right winger with skill and grit.
Marner (10.5) + Kampf (2.4M) to Columbus for Gaudreau (9.7M) + Jenner (3M) + Jiricek + Brindley.
Columbus dumps Gaudreau and finds a young running mate for Fantilli, plus a temp replacement for Jenner.
Leafs get a 2-way center, a top 6 left winger, a young potential top pairing RD, and a young middle six right winger with skill and grit.
WillNy29
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- Jun 20, 2018
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depends on if he bring his 0.5 ppg in the playoffs with him or stops moping and starts playing properly
Americanadian
Registered User
hamzarocks
Registered User
It has an effect to an extent. 83 vs 87 million cap.
Regardless. Pastrnak has a better contract than Nylander. Is a better player and I would trade them in an instant.
Not every leafs player has the best contract.
But comparing face value contract between 37% and 54% taxes is dumb
Why is pasta getting. 11.25 when tkachuk gets 9.5???
hamzarocks
Registered User
Pastranak is the better player vs tkachuk
The only year Tkachuk was better than Pastranak was 2021-2022
Besides that Pastranak is quite significantly ahead on yearly basis
Tkachuk should be at 10-10.5M sure with taxes + him not chasing every $ being the reason for 9.5M
Nylander should be at 8.5M-9M and Marner 9.5M - 10M
Americanadian
Registered User
Pastrnak the 60 goal scorer? The guy who scored 64% more points than his closest teammate this season and 68% more points than his closest teammate in his contract year? Probably because he's 20% better than Tkachuk.
Not comparing contracts in a league with the same cap for every team is dumb. If you make up excuses for the Leafs then why would you ever expect them to compete? There are plenty of good value contracts in states with income tax.
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None of this is realistic.
1.) the tkachuks are notorious hard liners for money. He openly talked about going hard for Brady and they negotiate as a pack.
He forced his way out and went to a no tax
Market
2.) Boston has a 44% tax rate and was negotiated in a 83 world. We have a 53 and a 87 world.
Even with that. Pasta is better.
The idea that a top 7 scorer 2X all star making 9 million in a high tax market is just silly.
Skinner makes 9. Nurse makes 9. This isn’t realistic
.
Mitch for Brady.
Helps Ottawa make the playoffs. See if Brady can play a playoff style.
How many pitchforks out of 10 is that worth?
Marner + Liljegren for Brady + Chychrun as a base?
Americanadian
Registered User
Does comparing the Leafs salary structure to the likes of Skinner and Nurse make you feel better? I don't understand why you look at other teams getting their players for cheaper than the Leafs, thus having a competitive advantage and you still want to defend the Leafs.
hamzarocks
Registered User
If you build your team aroumd bad contracts you have a bad team lol
Skinner & Nurse are two terrible deals who hurt their team by being 3-4M overpaid each
Its bizarre how people here cote tax advantage but ignore the huge advantage of advertisements + signing bonuses that come with toronto
I have seen all of the big 4 on countless adds, they have excess add on income by playing in toronto market but this is never an advantage discussed in contract discussions but a tax difference which isnt as as straight forward as peoole want to pretend (i.e., comparing 2 state tax rates in ontario vs flordia/dallas/tennesse etc) is the be all end all point
It is not just you, a lot of posters here bring up points like this to defend the core/dubas. It makes no sense as a fan of the team to try and argue from a perspective of a player who hasnt performed on his current deal and there are several comparables who make less than him and are better players
9.5-10M x 8 is 76M - 80M that is what Marner should have been at off his ELC.
We overpaid at ~11M X 6. He got almost 66M and has failed to live to that level in most years of his deal.
There is no reason to negotiate with him like he is still 21/22 and one of the most promising players in the league. He is a fringe top 20 player in the league. His contract should be based on expectations he wont be top 10 winger for most of his deal
Oh good lord. This has been proven plenty of times. There will be exceptions to every rule. No correlation is exact
But tax free markets routinely get 11-12%.
Stars get about 14%
Look across markets. Take the leafs out of it. Panarin. Price. Kopitar. Lunqvist. Toews.
Vs. Tampa. Florida. Nashville players.
Players will be grouped.
There are 700 players in the league.
You aren’t going to rank order every player.
And pay them to the dollar
there are realistic cap percentages. Yoi cant rank 700 people in 6-15% of the cap. You may prefer some players. But they will be paid similarly.
Superstars 15 plus
Stars 13-14
Within the 1-2% range you will see better players in it. Pasta is it.
Americanadian
Registered User
1-2% of the cap is a big difference. Also - just because you think Nylander is a star that doesn't make his value equal to Kopitar when he signed or Toews or Price. Kopitar and Toews had cups, Price had a Hart. They were better players when they signed than Willy is.
Again - why as a Leafs fan are you accepting them getting bent over? I am a Leafs fan and it pisses me off. At the end of the day teams like Colorado and Carolina and NYR seem to have figured out how to build a winner while also paying state income tax. The Leafs have not figured it out.
1.) Marner was overpaid. That is true. He should be paid like rant at time (minus any Colorado tax advantage and the SB).
Normalize the tax differences for those contracts and that’s what Marner should have been paid.
2.) advertisements are not ignored. They are irrelavant to AAV. They aren’t free you work. You do events you get paid.
They are also not gauaranteed money.
Your contract can go away in an instant with any social issue or picture or whim.
That’s like asking someone to take less gauranteed pay for a 40 hr week because you may have more opportunities to make overtime.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Ads are a direct advantage of playing in the toronto market
They are guaranteed money.
Rielly, Marner, JT, Nylander, Matthews, Kadri and Hyman when he was here all got advertisements through their association with the leafs
Most of those guys dont get these opportunities in other markets (tampa, flordia, dallas etc)
Overtime pay would be if these players were asked to take cuts based off of
1) Either winning individual awards/top 5 ppg/apg/gpg finishes - say if your a finalist for major awards and/or top 5 in per game stats with min 60 game played qualifer you get a 2M bonus that year. This is OT example, where you need to do work to be able to obtain your additional payout
2) Certain point total thresholds in the playoffs - Again if say a minimum of 8 pts in R1, 7 in R2, 7 in R3 and 6 in R4, and 500K payout for hitting each - This is again a effort based OT scenerio
Advertisement deals are guaranteed money which every star would love to have but only major markets can offer
This + the guys earnings USD living in Canada for most of the year (much higher purchasing power) alone are make up for the tax advantage + warm weather advantage in flordia, dallas, vegas
Flordia and Tampa still had to pay top $ when they were not a good team to get players to come despite these advantages and they still had to shell put top money to guys like Bobrovsky, Vasilevsky, Sergachev, Cirelli, Cernak etc which were above comparable players
Marner + Holmberg
For
Saros + Fabbro + 1 of Evangelista/Tomasino
For
Saros + Fabbro + 1 of Evangelista/Tomasino
hamzarocks
Registered User
In an insant would do that deal
Nsh is a cursed market so marner wouldnt be likely to win anything thete either helping us avoid a kessel like scenerio (marner winning a cup would suck as hes unlikable vs kessel who kost fans didnt mind just knew we couldnt win with him as our best player)
ok. Again.
There are 700 players in the league.
You cant just look at a graph and make a ranking and decide what people make within 1-2%
McDavid gets 16%.
Macklin on makes 15%
Matthews makes 14%
Now what? 13 more players and everyone else is free?
You have to group players in tiers. There will be players you personally prefer in tiers. That’s fine. That doesn’t mean they are overpaid or underpaid. It’s a rough grouping.
Willy this year was a 13-14% cap ufa. Sure. You may not like this years crop vs last years. But it’s the same relative value.
I didn’t want to sign him for this. I thought he was a peak. Doesn’t mean it’s not his value.
Those are different things. Market value and preference are not the same.
I may personally not like Honda accords. But if 20 are sold for 30k. That’s probably a fair price. I might not want to pay that. But it’s still market value.
As would I. Saros is exactly what we need. Fabbro could probably come in and be a solid #4 here, should fit well with Rielly.
Evangelista is definitely a tier above Tomasino and would push for him, but Tomasino still has potential. I’d take Novak too but I figure they’d value him highly. Tomasino looks to be on the way out and could find his potential here as a hometown kid who can score.
x.com
x.com
hamzarocks
Registered User
Tomasino has been handled so poorly by predsAs would I. Saros is exactly what we need. Fabbro could probably come in and be a solid #4 here, should fit well with Rielly.
Evangelista is definitely a tier above Tomasino and would push for him, but Tomasino still has potential. I’d take Novak too but I figure they’d value him highly. Tomasino looks to be on the way out and could find his potential here as a hometown kid who can score.
x.com
Had a good rookie ywar then they have dicked him around past 2ish years
Ads are not gauranteed money. At all????
people lose sponsorships all the time. Go on twitter.
After the 2nd lockout. Teams weren’t allowed to have back diving deals. That’s how high market teams competed with the tax advantage.
signing bonus (paid out in home market) NMC is how they do it.
The cost of living thing is pretty silly. You think they are spending 10 million a year?
They bank/invest the money. Thats why front loading is a thing.
hamzarocks
Registered User
People lose deals when they say something idiotic or contreversial
Players contracts are also voided/terminated if they were involved in a scandal (mike richards example) both are basically non heard of
Advertisements in sports are generally how players become super rich and grow their brand to allow them to continue to earn after retirement.
If Matthews can earn 2-3M a year off of advertisements (think he makes 5ishM and is amongst the top getters in the league) just from playing in toronto that is a huge advantage for him
same goes for JT, rielly, marner, Nylander etc
The only way you dont make advertising money in toronto is if you decide to cut the advertising deal or you murder/sexually assault/kidnap/some high key illegal activity
Um fyi 6.5 for parayko is on par he was our best dman compare his stats to any of your dmen and he is on top.
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