Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[Voodoo Child]

8 years 9.15M for Barzal

Nylander comparable in 2 years.

Hopefully in two years we’ll have an extra ten on the cap to play with.

But if Nylander wants a cent more than 9.5 I’d tell him to go out there and get it, since he’ll need new money at the same time Matthews does. Willy is great but not top-20 forward great.

Good deal for the Islanders, with Trotz out hopefully Barzal can concentrate more on scoring - which is what he was drafted for - and less on ‘Trotz hockey’, which he wasn’t great at anyways.

EDIT: I’d like Holl a lot more, and he’d be a lot better, if he cut a lot of the risk out of his game, I’ve in the past referred to it as Bobby Orritis.

You don’t need to be a hero playing on the 3rd pair, you need to be responsible.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Vancouver keeps getting brought up

Potentially something around holl and burroughs

Burroughs has held steady, fit for a 7 role with physicality to his game as well, and a bit quicker than holl

We need better than Burroughs for a #7 role. Burroughs is fine as a top 4 Marlie who maybe gets the call if we need to dig that deep on our depth chart, but not as the first guy if we have injuries.

There should be better guys hitting waivers than him.

 

[zeke]

EDIT: I’d like Holl a lot more, and he’d be a lot better, if he cut a lot of the risk out of his game, I’ve in the past referred to it as Bobby Orritis.

You don’t need to be a hero playing on the 3rd pair, you need to be responsible.

that's just not his game, though. his strength is puck moving. getting the puck moving forward quickly and effectively.

I wanted ZAR the entire summer for that reason. The kind of 4th liner that fits perfectly in what the Keefe/Leafs need and look for in their depth/role players. Engvall is really much better in almost every category though.

We'll see how they juggle the cap if/when ZAR is signed. With Tavares out for a little bit, we can push that problem for a bit.

Mix of new guys, current guys, recent ex guys for role comparisons.


Last 2yrs

Borderline Top-6 roles:

Jarnkrok: 115gms, 13:06ev, 1:29pk, 1:47pp, -1.60dzs%, -0.6relxga/60
Kerfoot: 138gms, 12:57ev, 1:39pk, 0:19pp, -2.96dzs%, +0.5relxga/60

3rd line strong defensive matchup type roles:

Mikheyev: 107gms, 12:37ev, 1:30pk, 0:37pp, +6.99dzs%, -1.1relxga/60
Kampf: 138gms, 12:33ev, 2:25pk, 0:03pp, +9.64dzs%, -0.8relxga/60
AstonReese: 114gms, 11:58ev, 1:39pk, 0:02pp, +6.43dzs%, -2.5relxga/60
Engvall: 120gms, 11:36ev, 0:49pk, 0:24pp, +5.47dzs%, -0.7relxga/60

Strong 4th Line roles:

Blackwell: 105gms, 11:20ev, 0:51pk, 0:41pp, -0.95dzs%, +1.0relxga/60
AubeKubel: 124gms, 10:15ev, 0:02pk, 0:05pp, +0.61dzs%, +0.1relxga/60

Sheltered 4th line roles:

Simmonds: 110gms, 9:29ev, 0:00pk,, 0:46pp, -4.28dzs% -0.5relxga/60
Clifford: 74gms, 9:10ev, 0:22pk, 0:02pp, -1.48dzs%, -1.6relxga/60
Spezza: 125gms, 9:03ev, 0:26pk, 1:23pp, -6.67dzs%, +1.5relxga/60




So while a guy like NAK looks like a decent gritty 4th liner, ZAR is more of a Kampf kind of player. This is a big reason why they've been able to "demote" Kampf down a line, because with him and ZAR both down there it's really a 3rd-line caliber defensive checking line.

Heck they could even decide to drop NAK, stick Engvall with Kampf and ZAR on a super-checking line, and stick Malgin with kerf and Jarnkrok on a scoring 3rd line and Robertson on the 2nd line.

 

[zeke]

8 years 9.15M for Barzal

Nylander comparable in 2 years.

To NYI: Kerfoot, Engvall, Holl
To TOR: Pageau

NYI gets cap relief going forward and depth for this year.

TOR gets a quality 3rd line C that's starting to age and has a bit of a worrisome contract but gets under the cap with room for another kid to play F

 

[andora]

We need better than Burroughs for a #7 role. Burroughs is fine as a top 4 Marlie who maybe gets the call if we need to dig that deep on our depth chart, but not as the first guy if we have injuries.

There should be better guys hitting waivers than him.

I guess.. i think he could be a 7 fine.. or depending on money a call up if we even carry a 7th

 

[rocketman588]

The team trading for Chychrun should get the yotes to eat 50% of the caphit, but take B.Little's LTIR money off their hands.

It's insured they're basically getting a free contract towards the cap floor

 

[hamzarocks]

To NYI: Kerfoot, Engvall, Holl
To TOR: Pageau

NYI gets cap relief going forward and depth for this year.

TOR gets a quality 3rd line C that's starting to age and has a bit of a worrisome contract but gets under the cap with room for another kid to play F

A lot of depth sent out for 1 player

Good player but also injury prone.

Tough trade to decide on

 

[The Management]

An interesting idea might be:

OUT: Kerfoot, Engvall, Holl
IN: Center in the $4.5m range

This would be to give us a strong two-way 3C, get us comfortably under the cap, and free up two wing spots for all of Robertson, Malgin, Holmberg, Steeves, Abruzzese, Knies, McMann, Gaudette, Anderson, Douglas to battle over all year.

To make this work, we probably need to target a player on a team looking to free up longer term capspace by taking on these three expiring deals. So a center making around $4.5m but signed for a few years. Probably looking at it being a veteran from a team looking to rebuild. Not sure how many candidates there are out there but it could work.

I like the theory behind this, because we've got a lot of healthy competition in camp and it would allow us to comfortably run Kampf on the fourth line (where he'd be a huge asset).

Turning quantity into quality would be nice, if we could find the right dance partner.

 

[Sebastien]

To NYI: Kerfoot, Engvall, Holl
To TOR: Pageau

NYI gets cap relief going forward and depth for this year.

TOR gets a quality 3rd line C that's starting to age and has a bit of a worrisome contract but gets under the cap with room for another kid to play F

They had alot of cap before this. No one is giving up anything especially 3c for Kerfoot, holl, and e.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Rather liquidate those guys in separate deals and move those futures for a Horvat rental. If they retain that leaves us enough space for a good deadline add on top of that.

 

[Fogelhund]

It seems a little premature to be coming to conclusions as to what our deadline needs are, before we've played a single regular season game. We don't know if there will be injury situations, or how this team will perform this year. We've had a third of the team turnover from last year.

Maybe just sit back, enjoy the season, and judge what we really need for the post season, as the season goes along. Objectively speaking, our biggest problem last playoffs wasn't scoring goals, it was preventing them. 3.43 GF/G was 4th best in the playoffs. 3.23 GA/G isn't good enough, and was in the bottom half. Our goaltending just wasn't very good. 0.897 SV %, was 17th of 19 goalies who played more than Four games.

So while people talk about Kane, Chyrchrun etc... these are players who help us score goals, not prevent them.

 

[Sypher04]

It seems a little premature to be coming to conclusions as to what our deadline needs are, before we've played a single regular season game. We don't know if there will be injury situations, or how this team will perform this year. We've had a third of the team turnover from last year.

Maybe just sit back, enjoy the season, and judge what we really need for the post season, as the season goes along. Objectively speaking, our biggest problem last playoffs wasn't scoring goals, it was preventing them. 3.43 GF/G was 4th best in the playoffs. 3.23 GA/G isn't good enough, and was in the bottom half. Our goaltending just wasn't very good. 0.897 SV %, was 17th of 19 goalies who played more than Four games.

So while people talk about Kane, Chyrchrun etc... these are players who help us score goals, not prevent them.

Our biggest problem was our depth players. As a whole, not each individually necessarily. But Offensively/defensively, both proved problematic. Tampa’s third line had its way with them.

 

[Shooter2x]

After seeing 5v5 ice time distributions last playoffs I might have to jump on the trade kerfoot team in addition to Holl and Engvall.

We need to be strong on all fronts. If Matthew's Marner Nylander JT can't be the 5v5 captains (the team runs through these 4) we will need our one token "expensive " depth guy to body guard those precious 5v5 minutes instead of our current choices. I don't know right now who qualifies I just know I don't want it to be Engvall or someone equivalently tiered.

If not, I love Boosh but he played too high 5v5, exposing some of Keefes desires. Start collecting the assets and cap space for the type of no.2 Keefe wants beside Rielly in the playoffs.

*I don't want to be dramatic, but safe guarding 5v5 with a token high quality expensive player may be the final piece of the puzzle to go all the way, and we have the potential cap space to make it happen.

 

[Fogelhund]

Our biggest problem was our depth players. As a whole, not each individually necessarily. But Offensively/defensively, both proved problematic. Tampa’s third line had its way with them.

Our third line.. goal differential even strength Kampf +2, Mikheyev + 1, Engvall +0

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[TMLAM34]

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Kerfoot - Nylander
Engvall - Jarnkrok - Malgin
Aston Reese - Kampf - Aube Kubel

When Tavares returns, if the Robertson, Kerfoot and Nylander is clicking, I’d slot JT in between Engvall and Jarnkrok.

 

[Havoc]

After seeing 5v5 ice time distributions last playoffs I might have to jump on the trade kerfoot team in addition to Holl and Engvall.

We need to be strong on all fronts. If Matthew's Marner Nylander JT can't be the 5v5 captains (the team runs through these 4) we will need our one token "expensive " depth guy to body guard those precious 5v5 minutes instead of our current choices. I don't know right now who qualifies I just know I don't want it to be Engvall or someone equivalently tiered.

If not, I love Boosh but he played too high 5v5, exposing some of Keefes desires. Start collecting the assets and cap space for the type of no.2 Keefe wants beside Rielly in the playoffs.

*I don't want to be dramatic, but safe guarding 5v5 with a token high quality expensive player may be the final piece of the puzzle to go all the way, and we have the potential cap space to make it happen.

Engvall with more 5v5 playoff minutes than Nylander and JT is the biggest joke of the 21/22 playoffs. They don't even PK.

Please fix this 5v5 bottleneck Dubas. This can't be the go-to guy when the studs are resting.

We may as well as overpaid Hyman if our plans were to deploy Engvall like this

 

[Shooter2x]

This can't be the go-to guy when the studs are resting.

This.

Holds true whether you're an Engvall fan or not an Engvall fan.

 

[Fogelhund]

Engvall with more 5v5 playoff minutes than Nylander and JT is the biggest joke of the 21/22 playoffs. They don't even PK.

Please fix this 5v5 bottleneck Dubas. This can't be the go-to guy when the studs are resting.

We may as well as overpaid Hyman if our plans were to deploy Engvall like this

Context is probably important in this. Our top four forwards all had over 30 minutes of PP time. When the power play ends, and these guys have been on the ice for nearly two minutes... which line do you throw over the board, when it isn't going to be the 1st or 2nd line?

It's probably going to be Engvall, Kampf and Mikheyev.

5v5, they held Tampa to at worst a draw... Kampf was a +2, Mikheyev +1 and Engvall was a +0. Isn't that what you want, these guys to work for a draw or slightly ahead, while the studs are resting?

 

[Havoc]

Context is probably important in this. Our top four forwards all had over 30 minutes of PP time. When the power play ends, and these guys have been on the ice for nearly two minutes... which line do you throw over the board, when it isn't going to be the 1st or 2nd line?

It's probably going to be Engvall, Kampf and Mikheyev.

5v5, they held Tampa to at worst a draw... Kampf was a +2, Mikheyev +1 and Engvall was a +0. Isn't that what you want, these guys to work for a draw or slightly ahead, while the studs are resting?

Not really. The whole point was to fix those guys (not plural per say, but like shooter said we need a true 5v5 captain) being our options, hence the use of the word bottleneck. Literally a +1 from Engvall could have flipped the series. The name with more 5v5 minutes than one of the best technical players in the league who is also our captain should not be Engvall.

Being the only options that can break even (you can even phrase it as break even if you get lucky) is not a valid excuse. Being the options is the problem itself. If that was their master plan like I said, we were better off over paying Hyman. Based on his last playoffs, we'd have swept Tampa with him.

Change that name from Engvall to literally anyone worthy of those 5v5 minutes when our core is resting and I guarantee you Tampa would have been sent golfing.

Edit: Even 1 minute extra from JT-Nylander 5v5 with 1 minute less to Engvall could have flipped the series the way they played in the second half

 

[notdoneyet]

So how do you get Muzzin to agree to waive to go to Arizona?
What incentive can you give him?
Bench him and play with 5 defensemen due to Cap?

If he'd agree:
Muzzin, 1st., Engvall, Niemela
for
Chychrun, and some Cap space.

Realistically, from the Coyotes perspective that is 1st. and Niemela for Chychrun so I think Leafs have to add.

Take out Niemela and add Knies?

Coyotes really looking about 3 years down the road until they're back in the NHL.

Just do what Tampa did.
Hey muzz you have two choices

Accept a trade to wherever we want

We waive you and you have no idea where your playing next year

 

[Dekes For Days]

Good lord. What a nothing issue that has been blown up. The reason only 5v5 was exclusively looked at was because it put Engvall 2nd (by 1 second, and within 13 seconds of multiple others), instead of 5th by ES TOI/GP or 8th by overall TOI/GP.

It should also be noted that the only reason he has that ranking 5v5 is because of the game situations we found ourselves in. There were significant portions of time through games 1-4 where the game was pretty much decided one way or the other (3-0 Leafs less than halfway through game one, 5-1 Tampa early 3rd period in game two, 3-0 Leafs early 2nd period of game three, 5-0 Tampa early 2nd period of game 4), and our top guys were playing a ton of PP time (not to mention the 26 minutes of non-5v5 even strength time), so the 3rd line got the most 5v5 time those games, which is pretty normal. In the games that were actually close like games 5-7 and with the PP time drying up a bit, Engvall was 8th in 5v5 time.

Similarly, in their series with us, Kucherov, Point, and Stamkos were 2nd, 5th, and 7th among Tampa forwards in 5v5 TOI/GP. Their most played 5v5 forward had 0 5v5 points FYI.

 

[Fogelhund]

Not really. The whole point was to fix those guys being our options, hence the use of the word bottleneck. Literally a +1 from Engvall could have flipped the series. The name with more 5v5 minutes than one of the best technical players in the league who is also our captain should not be Engvall.

Being the only options that can break even (you can even phrase it as break even if you get lucky) is not a valid excuse. Being the options is the problem itself. If that was their master plan like I said, we were better off over paying Hyman. Based on his last playoffs, we'd have swept Tampa with him.

Change that name from Engvall to literally anyone worthy of those 5v5 minutes when our core is resting and I guarantee you Tampa would have been sent golfing.

This is a weird focus on Engvall. Kampf had approx two minutes less, Mikheyev four... they were a unit. So you would rather have had Blackwell Spezza out there then? I mean if you can't play your top two lines, it's line three and four??

Engvall broke even 5v5... and when your PP ends, it's means it's your third line going against the other teams top line btw.... But he is solely responsible for us losing, because he was +0, instead of +1... that's some mental gymnastics.

Game 6 was lost because of a bad pass by Kerfoot, a bad pass by Mikheyev, and frankly giving up a couple of goals that should have been saves as a result. Same with Game 7... at least one of those goals should have been saved. Campbell posting a 17th best SV% of .89x was really more of the reason we lost, plus some bad passes. You can literally go back and see the goals scored against us, and see where we went wrong with each. Go ahead... find me the ones where Engvall is at fault. Weird.

 

[Havoc]

It should also be noted that the only reason he has that ranking 5v5 is because of the game situations we found ourselves in.

What part are you missing about bottleneck. Look at his minutes and how badly he was outplayed in those minutes with the exception of a very few shifts and explain to me how he wasn't a bottleneck towards moving to the first round.

If we're serious about the cup we can't have Engvall as one of the go-to options for these game script conditions. It's a loophole for other teams who get absolutely decimated by our core.

Oh wait, who got decimated by our core? Tampas core did. Who didn't make it to round 2 ? Leafs.

Tackle the bottlenecks.

 

[Havoc]

This is a weird focus on Engvall. Kampf had approx two minutes less, Mikheyev four... they were a unit. So you would rather have had Blackwell Spezza out there then? I mean if you can't play your top two lines, it's line three and four??

Engvall broke even 5v5... and when your PP ends, it's means it's your third line going against the other teams top line btw.... But he is solely responsible for us losing, because he was +0, instead of +1... that's some mental gymnastics.

Game 6 was lost because of a bad pass by Kerfoot, a bad pass by Mikheyev, and frankly giving up a couple of goals that should have been saves as a result. Same with Game 7... at least one of those goals should have been saved. Campbell posting a 17th best SV% of .89x was really more of the reason we lost, plus some bad passes. You can literally go back and see the goals scored against us, and see where we went wrong with each. Go ahead... find me the ones where Engvall is at fault. Weird.

You're actually the one taking this to a weird focus putting those absurd alternatives into my mouth. We haven't started indulging into real fixes yet. The fix did not exist last season.

I can't even fathom how people are against adding QUALITY to 5v5. If you don't agree at least you can still rest easy the team got much better if this player can be found via trade and all the routes it would take to get it done.

Edit: Fix did not exist in terms of extra personnel. It existed with some ice time altering, re-distribution of the core

 

[Fogelhund]

What part are you missing about bottleneck. Look at his minutes and how badly he was outplayed in those minutes with the exception of a very few shifts and explain to me how he wasn't a bottleneck towards moving to the first round.

If we're serious about the cup we can't have Engvall as one of the go-to options for these game script conditions. It's a loophole for other teams who get absolutely decimated by our core.

Oh wait, who got decimated by our core? Tampas core did. Who didn't make it to round 2 ? Leafs.

Tackle the bottlenecks.

Our goalie was 0.897, gave away some weak goals... and your focus continues to be a guy who was even on plus minus during his play. (But despite drawing even, you've concluded he was so badly outplayed.) Also interesting... his Corsi and Fenwick were above 50... despite starting in the Dzone 83.3% of the time... ya.. badly outplayed....

Of course his line got all the minutes after our PP got off the ice... like, that's how hockey works.

It's almost like... hey spin the wheel, and let's find something random to complain about today, even though nothing really supports the claim.

You're actually the one taking this to a weird focus putting those absurd alternatives into my mouth. We haven't started indulging into real fixes yet. The fix did not exist last season.

I can't even fathom how people are against adding QUALITY to 5v5. If you don't agree at least you can still rest easy the team got much better if this player can be found via trade and all the routes it would take to get it done.

Edit: Fix did not exist in terms of extra personnel. It existed with some ice time altering, re-distribution of the core

Of course we want to improve our play in all areas. But, you need to accurately identify the problem, and that's something that seems to avoid you.