Rumor: Trade Thread XVII: Callahan's Reckoning.

[BPD]

I agree with what you are saying, but why wouldn't they retire rather than go to some small market most likely non contender team at that point?

The only out would be something along the lines of a team trades for that Richards contract then uses a regular buyout on it as soon as they are allowed to.

Richards would get 2/3rd remaining amount instead of retiring. The trading for team would still get a cap hit without paying out that much real money, and the Rangers would get rid of the contract entirely.

That would all be dependent on 3 parties though and there is no guarantee they'd all go through with it.

Richards doesn't retire because they're training him for his next career and getting paid a million for it.

The Rangers do it because they benefit from not having the contract.

The second team does it because they benefit from having the contract.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

There is something to say about continuity and loyalty.

The thing about loyalty, is it goes both ways.

Sure, NYR can match Callahan's demands. Callahan can also accept an offer that was on the table, paying him 6M over the next 5 seasons.

When you're not willing to budge off your demands, it's no longer negotiating. His agent has said Callahan won't settle for less than 7 years.

Girardi on the other hand, from the reports we've read, is at least willing to negotiate. And his demands are more in-line with his value as a player. Callahan wants 1st liner contract. He's never been a first liner though.

You shouldn't be torn by this. It's a no-brainer.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Why do people want to keep a guy who is currently playing like a mediocre 2C, is only going to decline from here on, has had multiple concussions (remember that, everyone?), and is not not really that vital to the current team's performance - and is a risk of a MASSIVE cap penalty should ANYTHING cause him to retire early...

...on the hope that "they'll figure out something" in 3-6 years?

What the heck kind of upside is there in such a move? It's not like they're taking a calculated gamble on Sidney Crosby here; we're talking about disengaged, horrible last year and only on pace for 57 points in his "rebound" year, poorly suited for AV's system, riding MZA & Brassard's coattails Brad friggin Richards. You want to risk 5-8% (and that's assuming the massive increases everyone throws around like they're guaranteed) of your allotted cap space dead each year for years for him?

 

[Ail]

Recalling Jaskin would not indicate being part of a trade but a replacement to someone who was.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Oh, his legs are definitely going. No doubt.

I'm thinking that we can realistically get 50 points per season out of him for the next 2-3 seasons. He'll be a third line center by 2016, maybe even a wing. He'll still run our powerplay and make himself valuable if only because he's a smart player.

Given the price of points (I mean, if Callahan thinks 50 points is worth 7m, what's 50 points worth in 2 years?) I'm starting to find the argument to buy out Richards difficult.

Plus, we could just pay half those guys now. I mean...Stepan, Hagelin and Staal can work out extensions as early as July 1, Zucc and Kreider can sign 3-4 year deals if we're lucky too.

I think Richards can certainly help the team over the next few years. Not in disagreement there. I just think that money can be used in a better way, even by not using it next year.

I wouldn't mind to see us go into next season with a roster that wasn't dependent on maximizing the cap. Buy out Richards, replace him with Miller on the third line. Move Callahan, and have Fast replace him on the third line RW. And don't blow that money on someone like Vanek, Moulson, Stastny, Cammy, etc.

We have 1 last opportunity of ridding ourselves of Richards contract. It's a bad contract. Break away from it while you could. Having cap space can make the difference of a big trade during the season. Or, setting yourself up nicely the following free-agency.

 

[Raspewtin]

Recalling Jaskin would not indicate being part of a trade but a replacement to someone who was.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Miller Time NYR]

Since the Callahan and Girardi situations have been discussed at naseum, what kind of money do people think Kreider, Zuccarello, Brassard, Moore will be getting as RFA's?

 

[AHB*]

The thing about loyalty, is it goes both ways.

Sure, NYR can match Callahan's demands. Callahan can also accept an offer that was on the table, paying him 6M over the next 5 seasons.

When you're not willing to budge off your demands, it's no longer negotiating. His agent has said Callahan won't settle for less than 7 years.

Girardi on the other hand, from the reports we've read, is at least willing to negotiate. And his demands are more in-line with his value as a player. Callahan wants 1st liner contract. He's never been a first liner though.

You shouldn't be torn by this. It's a no-brainer.

You're right. and just to add onto this, I already think what the Rangers offered him is to much for what he is CURRENTLY bringing. You can't pay a guy for what he's done compared to what he is doing now (although he will get that on the open market).

We've seen multiple signs of a deteriorating Callahan this year, in terms of his on ice play and value to this team under AV. A couple major facts from this year.

1) Cally has missed time with 3 separate injuries this year
2) He is no longer featured on the power play.
3) He is not AS featured on the penalty kill
4) Their penalty kill remained top 5 without him out of the lineup
5) He is (regardless of line structure) our third best RW, behind Nash & Zucc

It's going to be a VERY tough pill to swallow, both for Rangers management and fans, but at this point in time, especially with the cap world we live in, you can't afford to overpay for guys like Callahan, Clarkson, Drury, etc, specificalyl with the tell-tale signs this season has already provided regarding his future.

I love Callahan, and the 6 Per over 5 is way more than fair in my opinion (again, regardless of what he'll get on the market).

This team needs to move in a direction away from overpaying guys who are consistent mediocre producers, this goes for UFA's, homegrown, or not.

Again, watching Cally leave will be tough for everyone involved and there will always be a part of me that roots for him, but I'm a Rangers fan first and foremost. What is best for building a cup team, may hurt, but at the end of the day, it's 100% about winning a cup.

In my opinion, giving Cally a huge, long-term contract, like he is seeking and in my opinion, we already offered, is detrimental to this goal.

If you had asked me at the beginning of the year if i would have felt this way, i would have laughed in your face, but i've come to accept and even hope that Cally leaves and we get a fair return for him, so that we can move on as a team and use that cap space for someone younger, more durable and with the potential to help lead a future winner.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Richards doesn't retire because they're training him for his next career and getting paid a million for it.

The Rangers do it because they benefit from not having the contract.

The second team does it because they benefit from having the contract.

What happens if Richards decides to retire? He definitely has the personality to walk into an analyst job. What if he decides that he's done busting his back training every day for a measly $1M? We get hit with cap recapture, no matter if he's traded to another team or not. The organization would be extremely stupid to subject their future cap situation to the whims of Brad Richards...

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Obviously something is going on. Maybe Newport wants a 7th year. The original report was Girardi wanted 7 years at $5.4M-$5.5M. Then the report was Girardi was amendable to 6 with the Rangers preferring 5. Maybe Girardi wants more money than $5.5M for 6.

I thought he was going to seek Phaneuf's money 7x7. If he is willing to do 6 x 5.5 that's as fair as fair can be the guy is and will continue to be a #1 RD for at least another few seasons. You can trade him in 2 or 3 years before he falls off. Even if he does fall off in 3 years it's a very manageable cap hit and he deserves the money. Sure if they can make it 5 years it's even less risk but if they say no in the end to 6 x 5.5 and let him walk for nothing it would be a lynchable offense. Not fireable, lynchable. His game is not predicated on speed and physical ability, nor is it based on offensive production so I honestly do not believe he will fall off as quickly as most are worried (admittedly I am still worried even if I think he'll be ok). But callahan can go get screwed by a rusty saw if he wants 7x7

 

[Raspewtin]

Since the Callahan and Girardi situations have been discussed at naseum, what kind of money do people think Kreider, Zuccarello, Brassard, Moore will be getting as RFA's?

Zuccarello probably take 3.5-4 million for 4 years.

Brassard 4.5 for 2 years.

Moore, eh, 2 years at 1.5 mill each? I don't remember if he's arb. eligible.

Kreider's a good question. 5 years at 4 million? I'd take that and run.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

What happens if Richards decides to retire? He definitely has the personality to walk into an analyst job. What if he decides that he's done busting his back training every day for a measly $1M? We get hit with cap recapture, no matter if he's traded to another team or not. The organization would be extremely stupid to subject their future cap situation to the whims of Brad Richards...

Until he learns to keep his upper lip shut and stop chewing on wood to make dams he can't be on tv

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Why do people want to keep a guy who is currently playing like a mediocre 2C, is only going to decline from here on, has had multiple concussions (remember that, everyone?), and is not not really that vital to the current team's performance - and is a risk of a MASSIVE cap penalty should ANYTHING cause him to retire early...

...on the hope that "they'll figure out something" in 3-6 years?

What the heck kind of upside is there in such a move? It's not like they're taking a calculated gamble on Sidney Crosby here; we're talking about disengaged, horrible last year and only on pace for 57 points in his "rebound" year, poorly suited for AV's system, riding MZA & Brassard's coattails Brad friggin Richards. You want to risk 5-8% (and that's assuming the massive increases everyone throws around like they're guaranteed) of your allotted cap space dead each year for years for him?

No I dont and I don't suppose anyone who is being realistic about it would either. Jettison the Beave. I applaud him for not being a flaming pile of hot garbage again this year but that's a backhanded compliment. one that is very earned. Based on what he is doing this year it's very clear he lazied himself into last seasons nightmare. Does he deserve death? No. But now I'm a bitter ***hole b/c of it. When you throw in the reality of the future with his cap and contract PLUS his level of play it would be sheer insanity to keep him

 

[eco's bones]

It may incentivize him to retire, but do you really think that a team won't be incentivized to find a way to keep him on when the cap floor is today's ceiling and he's literally giving you a 6.66 to 1 return on cap hit versus dollars?

Wanna know why Ryan Callahan gets 7M? The writing is on the wall - the cap is going to SKYROCKET under this new CBA. We realize that it's a bad investment for a team spending to the max no matter what like we do, and we're going to run from it.

Look, the NHL grew, on average - even through the recession - at or around 7% a year in cap. They're seeing record attendance, record revenues, just signed a monstrous TV deal and next year's cap is up nearly 12.5%. What reason is there to believe that the gravy train slows down?

Assuming average annual cap growth of 7% - maybe slightly more or less here or there - the cap is going to be close to 85M in a mere three years. Put that in perspective - the highest spending pre-lockout teams have never been matched. Now, it's going to be every team over 77M - and very soon.

The kicker, though - and what's going to be the crux of the 2021 lockout - is the cap floor. You see, the cap floor also flexes up - but it's not fixed at say 50% of the cap, or even 65% of the cap. It's a flat 16M below the ceiling.

Translation? In the 2017-2018 season, we can almost assure that the cap floor will be higher than next year's cap ceiling.

Now, a 71M cap floor is a very scary prospect to a team like, say, Florida, Winnipeg, Nashville - but if they're smart about their contracts, they can finagle a situation where they're paying someone half of their cap hit.

Which, of course, brings us back to Broadway Brad Richards.

Come 2017-2018, Brad Richards is the most valuable commodity in the NHL to a small-market or rebuilding team. He's a wizened veteran who plays a very smart game, probably won't cost you a game, is a strong role model and leader for your team - and fiscally speaking is worth nearly 7 times as much as you spend on him vis a vis the cap.

These backdiving contracts are going to be valuable assets so long as the player doesn't pull the retirement trigger.

The question with Brad Richards is no longer "Is he worth the investment?" - it's now "Can he be a legit 2nd line center for three more years?" - because he's going to be the cheapest option out there.

That's if you believe you're going to have the same player 6 years from now that you do today. So do you believe that a 40 year old Richards who has been showing signs of decline since he's come to the Rangers is not going to continue some kind of decline for the next 6 years? If you do I don't know what to tell you--a de-incentivized Richards in the final three years of his contract--what would you expect from such a player?

 

[Miller Time NYR]

Zuccarello probably take 3.5-4 million for 4 years.

Brassard 4.5 for 2 years.

Moore, eh, 2 years at 1.5 mill each? I don't remember if he's arb. eligible.

Kreider's a good question. 5 years at 4 million? I'd take that and run.

Agree for the most part, I don't think Moore is arb eligible and frankly he doesn't deserve ****, to me he's proven nothing but the fact that he can skate.... 1.5 sounds about right if not less for 2 years. Kreider I think we should sign long term 5x4$ would be great if even go 6 years.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Zuccarello probably take 3.5-4 million for 4 years.

Brassard 4.5 for 2 years.

Moore, eh, 2 years at 1.5 mill each? I don't remember if he's arb. eligible.

Kreider's a good question. 5 years at 4 million? I'd take that and run.

I think you're overpaying a few guys here.

They are restricted. Sather and company will let that be known throughout the process.

 

[BPD]

That's if you believe you're going to have the same player 6 years from now that you do today. So do you believe that a 40 year old Richards who has been showing signs of decline since he's come to the Rangers is not going to continue some kind of decline for the next 6 years? If you do I don't know what to tell you--a de-incentivized Richards in the final three years of his contract--what would you expect from such a player?

Don't know, don't care, because he shouldn't be a Ranger at that point anyway.

 

[RangerBoy]

Oh, his legs are definitely going. No doubt.

I'm thinking that we can realistically get 50 points per season out of him for the next 2-3 seasons. He'll be a third line center by 2016, maybe even a wing. He'll still run our powerplay and make himself valuable if only because he's a smart player.

Given the price of points (I mean, if Callahan thinks 50 points is worth 7m, what's 50 points worth in 2 years?) I'm starting to find the argument to buy out Richards difficult.

Plus, we could just pay half those guys now. I mean...Stepan, Hagelin and Staal can work out extensions as early as July 1, Zucc and Kreider can sign 3-4 year deals if we're lucky too.

The Rangers aren't the team paying Callahan $7M per.

 

[RangerBoy]

Don't know, don't care, because he shouldn't be a Ranger at that point anyway.

Richards is under contract until 2020.

 

[OverTheCap]

It's remarkable how low the bar has been set for Richards. Before the season started, many fans were saying that nothing short of a Conn Smythe or 80+ points would prevent him from being bought out. Now some fans want to keep him even though he hasn't come close to showing that sort of improvement or capability in his play. A team should not subject themselves to recapture for a 55-60 point center who can't skate and is turning 34 at the end of the season.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I think you're overpaying a few guys here.

They are restricted. Sather and company will let that be known throughout the process.

Agreed. Between MZA, Brass and Stral they'll prob total 10 or 11 mil which means each of them will be between 3-4 per year. Brass especially I can't see getting 4.5, not on a 2 year RFA deal with his production. MZA I could see getting 4 or maybe a little bit over 4 but he seems to take slightly reduced contracts so I wouldn't be surprised if we get a 3M steal with him either for 4 or 5 years. He may deserve quite a bit more.

Stralman isn't producing offense. Hard to see him getting much more than 3M per.

Hell look at what Stepan got after last season and what hags and McD recently got. The team isn't going to give Stralman 4.5 mil (nearly what McD makes and more than what Staal makes). Hard to imagine any of Brass, MZA or Stralman getting much more than that (If the contract is 4 or 5 years I could see MZA getting 4.5, brass at 4 and Stralman at 3.5)

I think Stralman will get a 2 or 3 year deal. Long enough so him and Klein are coming off together so the team could make a decision on either. It also gives Allen, McI, some other prospect or some random FA time to show up.

If we jettison the Big Brich then we kinda have to keep brass for at least 2 or 3 years. The team is in VERY good cap shape right now provided they dump Rich, avoid a full Pejorative Slur FA signing and don't give in to Callahans bonkers demands

 

[Abooch68]

Unfortunately in this day and age, players like Callahan will be getting $5-7 million. And that number will keep on increasing for players with expiring contracts. Just the way the business works. Precedents are and will be set and someone will always pay.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

It's remarkable how low the bar has been set for Richards. Before the season started, many fans were saying that nothing short of a Conn Smythe or 80+ points would prevent him from being bought out. Now some fans want to keep him even though he hasn't come close to showing that sort of improvement or capability in his play. A team should not subject themselves to recapture for a 55-60 point center who can't skate and is turning 34 at the end of the season.

For what Richards makes ($6.66M AAV), are we really going to get more production from a UFA? I think that's the crux of the argument from pro-Richards posters. While I agree that we're likely to get the same or worse production from whoever we end up using that UFA money on, the risk of a cap penalty, either by conventional buyout or cap recapture, is simply too great. To introduce that kind of unknown into the future of your salary cap is something you do only if you think you're going to win a cup before the bomb goes off. For Richards' contract, that's the next 3 seasons after this one, before his salary drops to $1M. That decision has to be made this offseason, and I see no way that the front office can say, with any degree of confidence, that we're going to be serious contenders in the next 3 years.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

For what Richards makes ($6.66M AAV), are we really going to get more production from a UFA? I think that's the crux of the argument from pro-Richards posters. While I agree that we're likely to get the same or worse production from whoever we end up using that UFA money on, the risk of a cap penalty, either by conventional buyout or cap recapture, is simply too great. To introduce that kind of unknown into the future of your salary cap is something you do only if you think you're going to win a cup before the bomb goes off. For Richards' contract, that's the next 3 seasons after this one, before his salary drops to $1M. That decision has to be made this offseason, and I see no way that the front office can say, with any degree of confidence, that we're going to be serious contenders in the next 3 years.

YES! We are! It's not just about the points though (I'm not yelling at you there it was an excited yes). You can use that money to fill in two different spots on the 2nd or 3rd line or use some of it to give a guy like Kreider a super long but cheap extension (What a steal a 6 x 4.5 deal would be for Kreider just like with mcD). Richards isn't doing enough all around and what other players could potentially do with their overall game supercedes what Rich is bringing in pts alone

 

[Miller Time NYR]

Richards is gone it's as simple as that the recapture penalty in itself is enough to warrant the buyout, and I hope sather doesn't throw the money at Stastny, if anything use part of kt for an upgrade on the second line lw over Poo, it would be nice for once to go into the season with cap space to allow us some wiggle room for a mid season trade or deadline acquisition. Thus team should be able to rely in skill not spending to the cap for success.