Rumor: Trade Rumour Thread II: TraDe for Every111!!

[tlallstar6]

Boyle for Malkin?

Deal

 

[bernmeister]

If I face palmed any harder I think I'd knock myself out. Possibly suffer a severe concussion. As it is, I think I broke my nose.

A small price to pay, my friend, for that pearl of wisdom...

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Tawnos (for some reason it won't quote you): he's not raw like a rookie raw. He's still relatively raw for his age and experience. At 24, a former first round pick, you really don't think gambling a 5th is worth it? He has great size and was not handled well in Florida. He's only ever played for Florida who is not a good team and with better coaching on a much deeper defensive team he could easily become a good, physical force on our bottom pairing with much better skating and higher overall skillset than Bickel. 24 still has time to develop for a d-man. Ellerby is already arguably better than Bickel and I believe with a change of scenery, to the right team, he could easily be a sold bottom pairing guy who gets PK time.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

on the first, it will cost more than Boyle for Jokinen and NYR would want someone who is a bit more grit in the top 6. Rangers have enough finesse type players.

and on the 2ed... rather go for a dman who can play a little defense.. you might as well sign Andy Delmore if you want to score on the PP and not do much else..

Excellent point! Please, no more finesse players or I'll scream.

 

[BBKers]

I would instantly scratch Asham off of that list. You keep him at 1M providing nothing but drop Boyle at 1.7M providing lots? ZUCCARELLO, Lindberg, Ferreiro, etc. do not bump Boyle off of this team. If Lindberg comes over, proves he's NHL ready and ready to win draws and play PK for 82+ games we can talk about moving Boyle then. As for "a team gave up a 1st for Gaustad", Yes! A playoff competitor gave up a 1st to pick him up from a non-playoff team. We're the former, not the latter (hopefully) and thus we're not selling. Do I move Boyle for a 1st if we get our ducks in a row and look like we can compete this year? No. The 1st isn't going to kill penalties in the playoffs for us. We won't even see it in the lineup for 2-4 years. I'm not selling. Boyle and a pick for an upgrade on D and an okay depth forward: Maybe. Boyle for a pick: Absolutely not.

Agreed. We should keep Boyle unless a very severe overpayment opportunity presents itself. We are in the win now mode, our absolute window is the next 2 years (and Sather has made a bunch of moves that very clearly illustrate this), pics are nice but not going to be of interest for the brass at this moment.
We have the money to keep this team intact the next 2 years resigning our RFAs. After 2013/2014 the team will likely be somewhat disassembled, but I think we have both Gaborik & Boyle until then.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

I agree and disagree. I agree that Boyle and Miller/Kreider are different types of players right now.

However, I disagree about trading Boyle. IMO, there is only 1 player on this team that you don't trade, Lundqvist. All others for the right price, I would move.

And along these lines, the one player that could replace Boyle is Halpern and he seems to have fallen within the good graces of Torts.

Well stated point! There is only one(1) player on our team that should be deemed untouchable and that is Hank. This philosophy of our so called "untouchable players" is what cost us a shot at Nash at last year's trade deadline when obtaining him would have made more sense at that time.

 

[Richter Scale]

That's the negative side of it.

The positive side of it returns Letang, better than Girardi IMO, and arguably on par on balance with Staal, so we are down 1 top D, but in return we got Neal a bonafide sniper who we can see as a 30+ maybe 40G guy.

Yeah, I threw in Stepan + Boyle + a 2nd but I got two 1sts, including one for next year.

So please feel free to comment on the whole picture, not one side of the trade. One side only projects an out of context picture as to real value.

Thanks.

All I can say is thank god you are not in Rangers management. Look at the trade you're proposing...

You go from a team that really only has a deep need for a 6th d man and turning it into a team with a 3rd defense pairing with TWO AHL'ers and give up two incredibly versatile forwards for a top-6 guy who provides little of the extras either Step or Boyle do. You're not even considering that a big part of Neal's success has come from playing with Crosby and Malkin (as much as I hate both of them, they're two guys who make players around them better). Don't get me wrong, I think Neal is a good player, just not convinced that he puts up the same numbers on a different line/team. Not to mention, what does that leave for our bottom 6? Awful. Just awful.

You're giving up depth on BOTH your d-men and your forwards. Our biggest issues right now in both areas are DEPTH. We don't need the friggin star players. Holy ****, this is the stuff that drove me crazy about the Rangers for years.

In what universe is that a good idea? Unless you're giving up on this season (and likely the next 3-4) and just going for big #1 picks and a mini-rebuild. And wtf if so?


Last thing I'll say is that with all this other "trade Boyle" BS, everyone who is saying this is assuming JT Miller sticks in the NHL this season. And you're basing that on two games of watching him play (and let's be honest - you're mostly looking at last night's two goal game and salivating). At least I hope that's the assumption, otherwise wtf are you thinking giving up a depth guy who plays top PK minutes? I hope Miller sticks, but its quite the jump to assume he does based on two games. Look at the huge hole you have in the bottom 6 if Miller doesn't stick AND you get rid of Boyle. Not a situation I'd want to be in...

 

[Trxjw]

Keaton Ellerby, Ben Lovejoy... these are not names that are upgrades on Steve Eminger or Stu Bickel or Matt Gilroy.

Ellerby would certainly have been an upgrade on all 3.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers have the Panthers 5th rounder in 2014. Casey Wellman trade. Maybe the Rangers are looking at another option. They could have sent the pick back to Florida.

 

[NYR Viper]

Hopefully the Rangers have their eyes on someone else, although Gilroy has been adequate lately.

 

[Zil]

The Rangers have the Panthers 5th rounder in 2014. Casey Wellman trade. Maybe the Rangers are looking at another option. They could have sent the pick back to Florida.

I'm pretty sure it's actually the Panthers' third rounder.

 

[Trxjw]

I'm pretty sure it's actually the Panthers' third rounder.

We have their 2013 3rd from the Wolski trade.

 

[Vitto79]

We have their 2013 3rd from the Wolski trade.

what picks to the Rangers have?

no first
1 - 2nd
3-3rds
?-4th?
2 ? -5ths?
?6-ths

I forget if they made any moves for another. I remember Scott for a 5th but that was likely this last draft and they deal their 7ths all the time

 

[RangerBoy]

Slats made two trades with Dale Tallon involving draft picks in 2012.

Wolski for 3rd round pick in 2013 and Mike Vernace

Wellman for 5th round pick in 2014

They also made another draft pick trade in 2011. 3rd round pick in 2011 and Tim Kennedy for Bryan McCabe.

Wolski went for a 3rd. FLA didn't qualify him. He was a rental for them.

Sather swapped Christensen for Wellman. If the Wild didn't re-sign Crusher,the Rangers owed the Wild a 7th in 2013. A 7th for Wellman which became a 5th.

 

[Rangers ftw]

I know this is same division, but beyond that, please review/discuss

Pens continue to want scoring options for top stars, more depth, more balance, esp, since Volkuhn (sp.) has looked so good in net for them, and he is a real Ranger killer.

What about
Marc Staal + Girardi + Stepan + Boyle + NYR 2nd 2014
for
Letang + Neal + Pens 1st 2013, Pens 1st 2014

Sounds reasonable

 

[RangerBoy]

1-Traded to Columbus
2-NYR
3-NYR
3-NSH pick. Acquired for a 3rd in 2012.
3-FLA pick. Acquired for Wolski
3-CLB(NYR receive pick if they fail to reach Cup finals in June.
4-NYR
5-Traded to NSH for a 5th in 2012. Thomas Spelling selection.
6-NYR
7-Traded to MIN for Wellman

The 6th is burning a hole in Sather's pocket. That will be moved soon.

 

[bernmeister]

All I can say is thank god you are not in Rangers management. Look at the trade you're proposing...

You go from a team that really only has a deep need for a 6th d man and turning it into a team with a 3rd defense pairing with TWO AHL'ers and give up two incredibly versatile forwards for a top-6 guy who provides little of the extras either Step or Boyle do. You're not even considering that a big part of Neal's success has come from playing with Crosby and Malkin (as much as I hate both of them, they're two guys who make players around them better). Don't get me wrong, I think Neal is a good player, just not convinced that he puts up the same numbers on a different line/team. Not to mention, what does that leave for our bottom 6? Awful. Just awful.

You're giving up depth on BOTH your d-men and your forwards. Our biggest issues right now in both areas are DEPTH. We don't need the friggin star players. Holy ****, this is the stuff that drove me crazy about the Rangers for years.

In what universe is that a good idea? Unless you're giving up on this season (and likely the next 3-4) and just going for big #1 picks and a mini-rebuild. And wtf if so?


Last thing I'll say is that with all this other "trade Boyle" BS, everyone who is saying this is assuming JT Miller sticks in the NHL this season. And you're basing that on two games of watching him play (and let's be honest - you're mostly looking at last night's two goal game and salivating). At least I hope that's the assumption, otherwise wtf are you thinking giving up a depth guy who plays top PK minutes? I hope Miller sticks, but its quite the jump to assume he does based on two games. Look at the huge hole you have in the bottom 6 if Miller doesn't stick AND you get rid of Boyle. Not a situation I'd want to be in...

Thank you for the critique. It is fair and reasonable, but I still disagree as to overall conclusion.

Letang is offensively excellent as Staal is masterfully shutdown.

Girardi added making a complementary D pair enhances value of Staal, to extent they surrender Letang+. But that is too much.
They should do 2 for 2, Neal + Letang for Staal + Girardi, but I don't see they commit for sure.

Stepan (was a 2nd) + Boyle (was a 1st) + add a 2nd and we get 2 firsts.

So I think overall value is ballpark close.

Issue is does the return justify for each team to make the deal?
Your D is thinner by 1.
Yes, we need to add from somewhere at some point. But as I said:
McD - Letang
MDZ - Stralman
is a solid 4 and we can work by committee until we improve the bottom pair.

What Letang would bring in terms of more puck time in the offensive zone would be something to not overlook.

As to Neal you're right. Anybody working w/Sid + esp. Malkin will have added numbers, but this guy has some scoring sniping ability, so he will finish, make his linemates that much more effective. Will he put up the same numbers as in Pitt? Almost certainly no. Will his scoring/sniper ability improve over Stepan + Boyle? Without a doubt. Are the intangibles of Stepan and the d of Boyle worth that? That is a fair ?, and IMO the answer is yes.

We are taking a huge gamble on Miller, and we need to pick up a guy --- possibly Matt Cullen? but we have for the moment
Richards
Miller
Halpern
= three out of 4 with options on the other spot (what we have now + for a 4th line guy, minimum minutes (maybe 6-8 per night) I'd check out Yogan on a cup of coffee. He's not ready to JT Miller a higher line, but he's big, would be motivated to stay, has demonstrated some scoring ability, and with d oriented checking linemates, defense might not be a disaster.

Don't forget we improve w/2picks + increased salary cap... all good for down the road.

Fortune favors the bold.
Must take chance here and there.

 

[Vitto79]

1-Traded to Columbus
2-NYR
3-NYR
3-NSH pick. Acquired for a 3rd in 2012.
3-FLA pick. Acquired for Wolski
3-CLB(NYR receive pick if they fail to reach Cup finals in June.
4-NYR
5-Traded to NSH for a 5th in 2012. Thomas Spelling selection.
6-NYR
7-Traded to MIN for Wellman

The 6th is burning a hole in Sather's pocket. That will be moved soon.

potentially 4 freaking 3rds? NYR is positioned to rent a bunch of players at the deadline then.

People are commenting on not getting Ellerby but I think they will aim higher for a rental D. Ideally a top 4. Gilroy or Eminger would be in a deal likely

McD/Girardi
Staal/Rental
DZ/Stralman

is Leopold still a top 4 in Buffalo? I don't really like Hainsey from WPG but rental Dmen like that.

 

[BBKers]

potentially 4 freaking 3rds? NYR is positioned to rent a bunch of players at the deadline then.

People are commenting on not getting Ellerby but I think they will aim higher for a rental D. Ideally a top 4. Gilroy or Eminger would be in a deal likely

McD/Girardi
Staal/Rental
DZ/Stralman

is Leopold still a top 4 in Buffalo? I don't really like Hainsey from WPG but rental Dmen like that.

Vitto did this for you

Gives a picture of all the Defensemen that are UFA
All will of course not be available
Stats through the end of last season (this year is not included)

UFA DEFENSEMEN 2013

[table="head;width=5800]Player| Team| Age| Caphit| Height| Weight |Drafted |Career GP| G| A | P| PPG| PIM
Ľubomír Višňovský|NYI| 36| $5,600,000 | 5*ft*10*in| 188*lb| R4 #118 (200) LA Kings |789 |117 |337 |454 |0,58 |337
Sergei Gonchar| OTT |38| $5,500,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 215 lb |R1 #14 (1992) Washington|1.256 |236 |596 |832 |0,66 |1.001
Ron Hainsey |WIN | 31| $4,500,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 210 lb| R1 #13 (2000) Montreal |544 |34 |145 |179 |0,33 |261
Mark Streit |NYI | 35| $4,100,000 | 6*ft*0*in| 205*lb |R9 #262 (2004) Montreal|455 |60 |205 |265 |0,58 |234
Robyn Regehr |BUF | 32| $4,020,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 225 lb |R1 #19 (1998) Colorado |944 |33 |150 |183 |0,19 |886
Ryan Whitney |EDM | 29| $4,000,000 | 6*ft*4*in| 209 lb| R1 #5 (2002) Pittsburgh |475 |60 |222 |282 |0,59 |394
Marek Zidlicky |NJD | 36| $4,000,000 | 5*ft*11*in| 190 lb |R6 #176 (2001) New York Rangers|608|63 |258 |321 |0,53 |542
Roman Hamrlík |WAS | 38| $3,500,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 222 lb |R1 #1 (1992) Tampa Bay |1.490 |158 |519 |677 |0,45 |1.485
Rob Scuderi |LAK | 34| $3,400,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 219 lb |R5 #134 (1998) Pittsburgh|618 |7 |78 |85 |0,14 |185
Jordan Leopold |BUF | 32| $3,000,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 220 lb |R2 #44 (1999) Anaheim |645 |63 |147 |210 |0,33 |278
Toni Lydman |ANA | 35| $3,000,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 205 lb |R4 #89 (1996) Calgary |864 |39 |208 |247 |0,29 |581
Tom Poti |WAS | 35| $2,875,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 210 lb |R3 #59 (1996) Edmonton |859 |71 |273 |344 |0,40 |605
Ian White |DET | 28| $2,875,000 | 5*ft*10*in| 191*lb |R6 #191 (2002) Toronto |500 |45 |140 |195 |0,39 |258
Anton Babchuk |CGY | 28| $2,500,000 | 6*ft*5*in| 212*lb |R1 #21 (2002) Chicago |295 |36 |71 |107 |0,36 |118
Douglas Murray |SJS | 32| $2,500,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 240*lb |R8 #241 (1999) San Jose|479 |8 |58 |66 |0,14 |381
Ladislav Šmíd |EDM | 27| $2,250,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 207*lb |R1 #9 (2004) Anaheim |409 |9 |50 |59 |0,14 |320
Adrian Aucoin |CLB | 39| $2,250,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 208*lb |R5 #117 (1993) Vancouver|1.134 |127 |289 |417 |0,37 |821
Andrew Ference |BOS | 33| $2,250,000 | 5*ft*11*in| 189*lb |R8 #208 (1997) Pittsburgh|818 |41 |175 |216 |0,26 |728
Joe Corvo |CAR | 35| $2,000,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 205 lb |R4 #83 (1997) Florida| 693| |88 |213 |301 |0,43 |231
Adam Pardy |BUF | 28| $2,000,000 | 6*ft*4*in| 220*lb |R6 #173 (2004) Calgary|189| 4 |27 |31 |0,16 |162
Michal Rozsíval |CHI | 34| $2,000,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 210 lb |R4 #105 (1996) Pittsburgh|808 |68 |206 |274 |0,34 |629
Ryan O'Byrne |COL | 28| $1,800,000 | 6*ft*5*in| 234 lb |R3 #79 (2003) Montreal |285 |3 |30 |33 |0,12 |321
Andy Sutton |EDM | 37| $1,750,000 | 6*ft*6*in| 245 lb |Undrafted |687 |38 |112 |150 |0,22 |1.205
Matt Walker |PHI | 32| $1,700,000 | 6*ft*4*in| 215 lb |R3 #83 (1998) St Louis |335 |4 |28 |32 |0,10 |478
John Erskine |WAS | 32| $1,500,000 | 6*ft*4*in| 216 lb |R2 #39 (1998) Dallas |456 |12 |38 |50 |0,11 |803
Francis Bouillon|MTL| 37| $1,500,000 | 5*ft*8*in| 198 lb |Undrafted |717 |31 |112 |143 |0,20 |510
Mark Fistric |EDM | 26| $1,475,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 233*lb |R1 #28 (2004) Dallas |266 |3 |20 |23 |0,09 |226
Grant Clitsome |WIN | 27| $1,250,000 | 5*ft*11*in| 215 lb |R9 #271 (2004) Columbus|105 |9 |30 |39 |0,37 |54
Alberts, Andrew | VAN| 31| $1,225,000 | 6*ft*5*in| 218 lb |R6 #179 (2001) Boston |452 |8 |48 |57 |0,13 |503
Mike Lundin |OTT | 28| $1,150,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 180 lb |R4 #102 (2002) Tampa Bay|259 |4 |33 |37 |0,14 |56
Scott Hannan |NAS | 34| $1,000,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 225*lb |R1 #23 (1997) San Jose |990 |34 |178 |212 |0,21 |611
Wade Redden |STL | 35| $1,000,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 209 lb |R1 #2 (1995) New York Isles|1.088|118 |377 |495 |0,45 |682
Marc-André Bergeron|TBL| 32| $1,000,000 | 5*ft*9*in| 197 lb |Undrafted |522 |88 |153 |280 |0,54 |205
Kurtis Foster |PHI | 31| $950,000 | 6*ft*5*in| 226 lb |R2 #40 (2000) Calgary |382 |41 |116 |157 |0,41 |283
Mike Mottau |TOR | 34| $850,000 | 6*ft*0*in| 193 lb |R7 #182 (2007) New York Rangers|332| 9 |53 |62| 0,19| 160
Radek Martínek |NYI | 36| $750,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 203 lb |R8 #228 (1999) New York Isles |469| 22 |83 |105| 0,22| 276
Kent Huskins |DET | 33| $750,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 217*lb |R6 #156 (1998) Chicago |347 |13 |51 |74 |0,21| 192
Andreas Lilja |PHI | 37| $737,500 | 6*ft*3*in| 220*lb |R2 #54 (2000) LA Kings |642 |17 |73 |90 |0,14 |621
Alexander Sulzer|BUF| 28| $725,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 198 lb |R4 #92 (2003) Nashville|89 |4 |12 |16 |0,18 |26
Derek Meech |WIN | 28| $700,000 | 5*ft*11*in| 197 lb |R7 #229 (2002) Detroit |130 |4 |12 |16 |0,12 |43
Cam Barker |VAN | 26| $700,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 215 lb |R1 #3 (2004) Chicago |313 |27 |76 |103 |0,33 |288
Aaron Johnson |BOS | 29| $650,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 211 lb |R3 #85 (2003) Columbus |281 |17 |45 |62 |0,22 |217
Jack Hillen |WAS | 27| $650,000 | 5*ft*10*in| 190*lb |Undrafted |232 |10 |46 |56 |0,24 |131
Matt Smaby |ANA | 28| $650,000 | 6*ft*5*in| 240*lb |R2 #41 (2003) Tampa Bay|122 |0 |6 |6 |0,05 |106[/table]

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Leopold would be ideal. A few others on that list would be good as well.

 

[Thirty One]

UFA DEFENSEMEN 2013

Suddenly I want Mark Streit something bad.

 

[Richter Scale]

Vitto did this for you

Gives a picture of all the Defensemen that are UFA
All will of course not be available
Stats through the end of last season (this year is not included)

We should get Redden back.

But somewhat seriously... if Glen was able to get him for a more down to earth price, I wouldn't be opposed. His biggest problem here in my mind was that he didn't live up to his astronomical cap hit. Of course... I see a less than zero percent chance of any of that happening.

 

[bernmeister]

We should get Redden back.

But somewhat seriously... if Glen was able to get him for a more down to earth price, I wouldn't be opposed. His biggest problem here in my mind was that he didn't live up to his astronomical cap hit. Of course... I see a less than zero percent chance of any of that happening.

Sorry, biggest problem was he was to slow, could not play any more.

 

[Vitto79]

Vitto did this for you

Gives a picture of all the Defensemen that are UFA
All will of course not be available
Stats through the end of last season (this year is not included)

UFA DEFENSEMEN 2013


You are the man sir

i'm good with any of the below but I highly doubt the Isles do us a favor

also Streit should of been a Ranger instead of Redden. Not sure why they didnt go that route, argh

Some are better options than others. Hainsey is blah as well but for some reason I could see that happening

[table="head;width=5800]Player| Team| Age| Caphit| Height| Weight |Drafted |Career GP| G| A | P| PPG| PIM
Ľubomír ViÅ¡ňovský|NYI| 36| $5,600,000 | 5*ft*10*in| 188*lb| R4 #118 (200) LA Kings |789 |117 |337 |454 |0,58 |337
Sergei Gonchar| OTT |38| $5,500,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 215 lb |R1 #14 (1992) Washington|1.256 |236 |596 |832 |0,66 |1.001
Ron Hainsey |WIN | 31| $4,500,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 210 lb| R1 #13 (2000) Montreal |544 |34 |145 |179 |0,33 |261
Mark Streit |NYI | 35| $4,100,000 | 6*ft*0*in| 205*lb |R9 #262 (2004) Montreal|455 |60 |205 |265 |0,58 |234
Robyn Regehr |BUF | 32| $4,020,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 225 lb |R1 #19 (1998) Colorado |944 |33 |150 |183 |0,19 |886
Ryan Whitney |EDM | 29| $4,000,000 | 6*ft*4*in| 209 lb| R1 #5 (2002) Pittsburgh |475 |60 |222 |282 |0,59 |394
Roman Hamrlík |WAS | 38| $3,500,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 222 lb |R1 #1 (1992) Tampa Bay |1.490 |158 |519 |677 |0,45 |1.485
Rob Scuderi |LAK | 34| $3,400,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 219 lb |R5 #134 (1998) Pittsburgh|618 |7 |78 |85 |0,14 |185
Jordan Leopold |BUF | 32| $3,000,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 220 lb |R2 #44 (1999) Anaheim |645 |63 |147 |210 |0,33 |278
Toni Lydman |ANA | 35| $3,000,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 205 lb |R4 #89 (1996) Calgary |864 |39 |208 |247 |0,29 |581
Douglas Murray |SJS | 32| $2,500,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 240*lb |R8 #241 (1999) San Jose|479 |8 |58 |66 |0,14 |381
Ladislav Šmíd |EDM | 27| $2,250,000 | 6*ft*3*in| 207*lb |R1 #9 (2004) Anaheim |409 |9 |50 |59 |0,14 |320
Joe Corvo |CAR | 35| $2,000,000 | 6*ft*1*in| 205 lb |R4 #83 (1997) Florida| 693| |88 |213 |301 |0,43 |231
Ryan O'Byrne |COL | 28| $1,800,000 | 6*ft*5*in| 234 lb |R3 #79 (2003) Montreal |285 |3 |30 |33 |0,12 |321
John Erskine |WAS | 32| $1,500,000 | 6*ft*4*in| 216 lb |R2 #39 (1998) Dallas |456 |12 |38 |50 |0,11 |803
Mark Fistric |EDM | 26| $1,475,000 | 6*ft*2*in| 233*lb |R1 #28 (2004) Dallas |266 |3 |20 |23 |0,09 |226
Grant Clitsome |WIN | 27| $1,250,000 | 5*ft*11*in| 215 lb |R9 #271 (2004) Columbus|105 |9 |30 |39 |0,37 |54

 

[Richter Scale]

Thank you for the critique. It is fair and reasonable, but I still disagree as to overall conclusion.

Letang is offensively excellent as Staal is masterfully shutdown.

Girardi added making a complementary D pair enhances value of Staal, to extent they surrender Letang+. But that is too much.
They should do 2 for 2, Neal + Letang for Staal + Girardi, but I don't see they commit for sure.

Stepan (was a 2nd) + Boyle (was a 1st) + add a 2nd and we get 2 firsts.

So I think overall value is ballpark close.

Issue is does the return justify for each team to make the deal?
Your D is thinner by 1.
Yes, we need to add from somewhere at some point. But as I said:
McD - Letang
MDZ - Stralman
is a solid 4 and we can work by committee until we improve the bottom pair.

What Letang would bring in terms of more puck time in the offensive zone would be something to not overlook.

As to Neal you're right. Anybody working w/Sid + esp. Malkin will have added numbers, but this guy has some scoring sniping ability, so he will finish, make his linemates that much more effective. Will he put up the same numbers as in Pitt? Almost certainly no. Will his scoring/sniper ability improve over Stepan + Boyle? Without a doubt. Are the intangibles of Stepan and the d of Boyle worth that? That is a fair ?, and IMO the answer is yes.

We are taking a huge gamble on Miller, and we need to pick up a guy --- possibly Matt Cullen? but we have for the moment
Richards
Miller
Halpern
= three out of 4 with options on the other spot (what we have now + for a 4th line guy, minimum minutes (maybe 6-8 per night) I'd check out Yogan on a cup of coffee. He's not ready to JT Miller a higher line, but he's big, would be motivated to stay, has demonstrated some scoring ability, and with d oriented checking linemates, defense might not be a disaster.

Don't forget we improve w/2picks + increased salary cap... all good for down the road.

Fortune favors the bold.
Must take chance here and there.

Am I right in interpreting your rationale as you giving up on this season (and possibly the next few) and going for a mini-rebuild? Personally, I'm not ready to do that and don't think it makes sense, but that is the only case/frame of reference in which I could possibly understand the basis for a trade like the one you're proposing here (regardless of whether it is actually feasible in the real world).

If you're actually trying to keep this team in contention for the cup this year and in the next couple, I don't see how this trade does that. It completely changes the composition and identity of the team. You're going from a team whose strength was its defense and two-way play and turning it into a team that barely has any of that and is primarily offensive minded. I wouldn't even be confident they'd make the playoffs with that lineup. But even if they did, come playoffs, depth matters. Neal has the potential to add a lot to the top 6, but with the terms of your trade he does so by leaving a huge hole in the bottom six. And though I like JT, I'm not ready to say he can fill that hole and make a trade based on 2 games. Look at the teams that have won the Stanley Cup in the past decade and a half -- almost all of them got significant production from their bottom 6.

While you acknowledge that it weakens our d-corps, by saying that its "just 1 more," I'm not sure you grasp how big of an impact that would have when we already have a mediocre (at best) 6th d man... Instead of having two and a half solid pairings, you now either have to run one complete garbage pair or split up the awful and have 2 pairings with d-men that drag down the effectiveness of their partner. For a team that finally has started to get its act together on defense in the past few seasons, neither of those is a prospect I can look forward to.

I don't think its as important as the chemistry on forward lines, but in general, I think people underestimate how much a defense man's partner can impact their play... Look at any of the Rangers' top 4 d-men when they're paired with either Bickel or Gilroy; they look incredibly uncomfortable and end up running around like chickens with their heads cut off way more than they would otherwise to make up for the fails made by their partner. I mean, its early this season, but just look at Suter and Weber -- they're both still great d-men, that won't change, but their individual play is certainly not the same so far.


If you're looking to stay in the hunt for the cup this year and over the next few, the only way I would come anywhere near touching a proposal like the one you've offered is if you replaced one of the 1st rounders with a serviceable d-man or depth two-way forward. And I'm not seeing much on Pitts' roster that fits either of those bills and is also someone whom they'd be willing to give up. Simply can't make a trade that leaves two monster holes.