Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Part IX: Dubinsky, Rozsival and a 2nd

[mrhockey193195]

Just for fun, look back through the old Zucc threads. It's the same posters that want MDZ gone largely. It's also one that compares Hagelin to Rico Fata and *****ed about his flowing locks and wanted to "sell high" on him. It's all the same people that want Girardi moved like yesterday. That wanted Lundqvist moved and Talbot starting from now on. That hate Bran Boyle with passion. Would rather hope for a loss to put more pressure on AV or Slats than a hard fought victory. That every faulter of every Torts season called him a clown, and begged for the losing to continue so he'd be fired. Endlessly talk about Richards not being worth his contract.

In short, yes, there were a lot of people that wanted him waived. The same corps that's idea of fandom is to just replace everyone with perfection, trade everyone you get bored of for prospects that take forever to make the big show, tank half a decade to rebuild through top 5 picks, etc.

The obnoxious shiny new-toy crew for the most part. They're always proud that they disliked a player long before everyone else, and "called it". Well when you consider everyone who isn't the BP at his exact line and position a waste of space, of course you're going to get opportunities to gloat. Unfortunately the local bar I like to watch games at has a few of these jack *****. The smugness every time MDZ makes a tiny error is so cringe worthy that i can't help but laugh. These people aren't NYR fans, they're fans of their own delusional hockey IQ, and the NYR are just unfortunate to be their local market and therefore target. They wear their scorn like a badge, and never really get that everyone around them thinks their obnoxious blow-hards. Oh boy, you guys are always right, if NYC was only lucky enough to have Dolan look to hfboards for the next GM, we'd be a dynasty in no time!

if you think the opposite of being an obnoxious team hater is to just keep everyone and continue as normal, it's pretty obvious what camp you're in. Sorry you root for a team you hate

I just would rather see players elevate their games, become unified, and accomplish something together, Miracle on ice style; than constantly search for the next savior. Players fighting through adversity and/or reclaiming star status is far more interesting to me than bringing in the next hired gun, so we can all turn to the next player we dump on and want removed.

Jagr's no superstar at this point, but his storyline is probably only second to AO completely destroying the NHL. Staal returning from eye injury and regaining a level close to all the promise he held is far more compelling than bringing in a new guy to play the position for him. Richards reclaiming some level of star status before our eyes is more enjoyable than bringing in a star #1. MDZ going from a kid to a man, and maybe one day fighting like hell through a playoff run would be give me way more connectiont han watching (insert latest rumo rhere) coming in and having a strong 3 or 4 seasons). Watching a team fight it's way into the 8th seed, will always be more compelling than being a perennial loser powerhouse like Pittsburgh. Being so insanely bad as to require the NHL to give you the next BPA every damn year just so you ca get a Cup and fill some seats.

Perfect posts! And I completely agree with you on the bolded, and that's probably why the 11-12 season was so special to me (and why the 1991-92 season was so special to fans who watched then). We saw our young guys grow, mature, develop together and blossom on a big stage. It was a very proud time to be a Rangers fan.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I would put myself in the negative poster category. This is largely due to the fact that I want to see this franchise win another Stanley cup in my lifetime. I am frustrated with the fact that most years this team is the definition of mediocre. Never good enough to be a legitimate cup contender and never bad enough to acquire young franchise players. If we continue like this another 54 year cup drought will be here in no time.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

if you think the opposite of being an obnoxious team hater is to just keep everyone and continue as normal, it's pretty obvious what camp you're in. Sorry you root for a team you hate

I just would rather see players elevate their games, become unified, and accomplish something together, Miracle on ice style; than constantly search for the next savior. Players fighting through adversity and/or reclaiming star status is far more interesting to me than bringing in the next hired gun, so we can all turn to the next player we dump on and want removed.

Jagr's no superstar at this point, but his storyline is probably only second to AO completely destroying the NHL. Staal returning from eye injury and regaining a level close to all the promise he held is far more compelling than bringing in a new guy to play the position for him. Richards reclaiming some level of star status before our eyes is more enjoyable than bringing in a star #1. MDZ going from a kid to a man, and maybe one day fighting like hell through a playoff run would be give me way more connectiont han watching (insert latest rumo rhere) coming in and having a strong 3 or 4 seasons). Watching a team fight it's way into the 8th seed, will always be more compelling than being a perennial loser powerhouse like Pittsburgh. Being so insanely bad as to require the NHL to give you the next BPA every damn year just so you ca get a Cup and fill some seats.

And I'm also sorry that I'm not like you who drinks the kool aid and wears rose colored glasses. Since when is criticizing the team hating on them? We're all supposed to carry on and say everything's fine people move along nothing to see here? There's a reason this team's won once in 74 years: management, or lack thereof. So excuse me while I don't blow my top off when we're fighting for that 8th seed tooth and nail yet again just to witness an early exit. Then come the off season when Teflon builds through free agency rather than the draft. 13 years and still ruling with an iron fist! Bitter? Yes. Hater? No. It's time to see things outside the box for a change, and unfortunately this organization is too incompetent to realize this. Oh, and Merry Christmas

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

I would put myself in the negative poster category. This is largely due to the fact that I want to see this franchise win another Stanley cup in my lifetime. I am frustrated with the fact that most years this team is the definition of mediocre. Never good enough to be a legitimate cup contender and never bad enough to acquire young franchise players. If we continue like this another 54 year cup drought will be here in no time.

they had their chance twice at the draft in 2003, and 2004.. picking 12th overall and 6th overall messed up twice with not so great draft picks.. what makes you think that if they were in that situation again, that they would not mess it up for the 3rd time? Glen Sather is still the GM.

 

[RangersHank*]

they had their chance twice at the draft in 2003, and 2004.. picking 12th overall and 6th overall messed up twice with not so great draft picks.. what makes you think that if they were in that situation again, that they would not mess it up for the 3rd time? Glen Sather is still the GM.

What great players did we miss in 2004? Mike Green? Zajac? Those guys arent even that good. After pick 5 there were really no great players

 

[SlingshotVv]

That doesn't happen that often and relying on them to get hot one playoffs and magically win it all isn't a good plan.

They don't have to get rid of everyone, but trade some players? Why not? This is not a good hockey team. Continually being mediocre isn't that fun to watch IMO.

You're comprenhension is failing this Christmas morning if you think I'm against players being moved or not resigned. My original post was that it's the same fans that want the ENTIRE TEAM SOLD. Go back to the Zucc thread. Now go to the MDZ threads. Now look at Lundqvist's pre signing thread and Richards. It's the same posters. They're the same ones in the Pyatt threads, and Boyle threads.

as far as relying on a team to get hot being a bad plan I point to a team having two generational talents, among a handful more top picks, bringing in one of the best trades in recent history (goligoski for Neal), and some really savvy UFA grabs, has accomplished 1 Cup, and a team that hasn't won more playoff series' over the last two years than the NYR. TBL has some of the best players in the world on their roster. As does, arguably, Edmonton. Anaheim does too, and they've experienced one Cup and not drastically more playoff wins than us over that period. Chicago and Boston are as elite as it gets right now. There's always teams like that. Sometimes it's teams that stay together forever, sometimes it's coaching staffs that do. Sometimes it's drafting Toews and Kane after tanking like mad. Each of those teams would look masively mediocre if they lost one or two players. Well that's where we are now.

Relying on anything is a crapshoot. The fact that fans don't see it as such boggles my mind. You're not just a trade, or a top pick, away from a Cup. This team isn't very good because there's been a ton of turnover in this org over the last few years. The entire core has been reshuffled. The staff has been replaced. The defining players are either gone or injured. And the goaltending has been suspect, maybe due to all of that, maybe due to some of it. But it's manned with NHL talent. And there's no reason they can't win just like any other roster. It may take one or two lightbulbs to go on, it may take AV to make adjustments, it may take a Miracle on Ice level of bonding. But they can do it, and I'd rather see them do it as currently constructed than otherwise. Now if Slats makes moves, I don't cry about it, ok, new players to root for.

 

[Ola]

tbh, the last few games, the way DZ played, no way I trade that guy for something short of severe overpayment. Def not for Cody ****ing Franson. Very effective bringing the puck out of our end, making good passes, pinching in when possible. Just need to trust that guy. I've a feeling he's due for a few standout games soon.

I agree for sure. MDZ has played like a solid top 4 D the last weeks, no doubt.

Brassard also faced a lot if heat for a while but he has also been one of the better players.

 

[SlingshotVv]

And I'm also sorry that I'm not like you who drinks the kool aid and wears rose colored glasses. Since when is criticizing the team hating on them? We're all supposed to carry on and say everything's fine people move along nothing to see here? There's a reason this team's won once in 74 years: management, or lack thereof. So excuse me while I don't blow my top off when we're fighting for that 8th seed tooth and nail yet again just to witness an early exit. Then come the off season when Teflon builds through free agency rather than the draft. 13 years and still ruling with an iron fist! Bitter? Yes. Hater? No. It's time to see things outside the box for a change, and unfortunately this organization is too incompetent to realize this. Oh, and Merry Christmas

what kool-aid? at the beginning of this season I put us between 8th and 10th BECAUSE of the constant tinkering! Sather shares the same mindset as the haters. Constant overhauls, constant shiny new toys. The one period he kept a core together and built around the perimeter (and not just considering his big money acquisitions his core), they went to the ECF. Then he blows it up for Nash, for AV's higher-scoring style. The same moves tons of people were clamoring for.

Edit: Merry Christmas to you as well!

 

[Raspewtin]

I agree with some of you in that lately I don't want DZ traded......he's been really effective and doing a lot of little things to keep this team afloat. He was killing the Wild with his stretch passes and he looks really confident. I hold onto him till the deadline at this point.

 

[D713B]

What great players did we miss in 2004? Mike Green? Zajac? Those guys arent even that good. After pick 5 there were really no great players

Radulov and Stafford were picked right after Montoya. Meszaros was also drafted in the first round that year. The draft was thin but choosing a goaltender in the top ten hardly ever pays off.

 

[Raspewtin]

Radulov and Stafford were picked right after Montoya. Meszaros was also drafted in the first round that year. The draft was thin but choosing a goaltender in the top ten hardly ever pays off.

The goaltender comment I 100% agree with. I never take goalies in the 1st round. Ever.

 

[OrbitalDynamics]

nothing wrong with that, he is a great player. I just dont wanna kill the cap

Cap is already DOA.

Callahan and Girardi probably both get "Offers they can't refuse"from cigar face in July and we'll have zip left and probably end up offering Pouliot another one year contract.

Add in the Sather head scratch signing and the reclamation project or two and next years roster is looking as asstacularly bad as this years.

 

[Vidic15*]

The goaltender comment I 100% agree with. I never take goalies in the 1st round. Ever.

I wouldn't take a goalie higher than the 25th pick. Defenseman no higher than the 5th. Depending upon how deep the forward crop is, maybe even the 10th.

 

[NikC]

Its good to see Zuccarello play well and contribute. We always knew he had talent. He's working hard and it's paying off. He has a special skillset that established teams need... however the NYR aren't an established team at the moment. There is no identity. Not enough for a skill team/ and not enough size and grit to be a physical team. Maybe they can be a hybrid who knows?

I don't want the NYR to have to rely on a 5-7/180lb player to be a go to guy. A team like Boston can utilize a smaller, talented player like a Marchand because they have an established identity around him.

I don't think the NYR should throw alot of money at a player like MZA. If we can move him in a deal that can help establish our identity which imo should be a combination of size, skill and physicality, you do it.

I agree with RangerBoy. This could be a Prucha situation when we don't move a player with value that doesn't fit a long term need. I think many fans are so starved to see talent on a NYR team the lose their mind when they see some semblance of it.

Smallish forwards shouldn't be focal point, go to guys on a successful team.
MZA is an auxiliary player. He stands out because the NYR are a mess. We're a Frankenstein team currently.

Bold moves need to be made. I'm not sure we have the right people in this organization to carry them out. We'll see...

 

[RGY]

I love MDZ, have defended him in the past, but we may have to trade him at some point this year to get forward depth.

However, I must say MDZ has played great the last few games in all facets of the game. He has played tough and battled. That is the player we saw last year when he tool on big minutes while Staal was out. I hope he continues this and I also hope he stays. I'd rather trade Girardi (and that's not because I think he has been bad for us before kenjets quotes my post to make another childish remark) than trade the younger Del Zotto.

Brassard has surprised me the most this past week. I was ready to pack his bags a few weeks ago.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

if you think the opposite of being an obnoxious team hater is to just keep everyone and continue as normal, it's pretty obvious what camp you're in. Sorry you root for a team you hate

I just would rather see players elevate their games, become unified, and accomplish something together, Miracle on ice style; than constantly search for the next savior. Players fighting through adversity and/or reclaiming star status is far more interesting to me than bringing in the next hired gun, so we can all turn to the next player we dump on and want removed.

Jagr's no superstar at this point, but his storyline is probably only second to AO completely destroying the NHL. Staal returning from eye injury and regaining a level close to all the promise he held is far more compelling than bringing in a new guy to play the position for him. Richards reclaiming some level of star status before our eyes is more enjoyable than bringing in a star #1. MDZ going from a kid to a man, and maybe one day fighting like hell through a playoff run would be give me way more connectiont han watching (insert latest rumo rhere) coming in and having a strong 3 or 4 seasons). Watching a team fight it's way into the 8th seed, will always be more compelling than being a perennial loser powerhouse like Pittsburgh. Being so insanely bad as to require the NHL to give you the next BPA every damn year just so you ca get a Cup and fill some seats.

I really liked the first post but you totally lost me IF you are saying we should keep every single player and never give up on or trade any of them. Likewise of course you can't just be a shiny new toy person and trade everyone without giving them a chance. I have no problem jettisoning Richards but think we were fools not to have already signed MZA longer

 

[Ola]

Its good to see Zuccarello play well and contribute. We always knew he had talent. He's working hard and it's paying off. He has a special skillset that established teams need... however the NYR aren't an established team at the moment. There is no identity. Not enough for a skill team/ and not enough size and grit to be a physical team. Maybe they can be a hybrid who knows?

I don't want the NYR to have to rely on a 5-7/180lb player to be a go to guy. A team like Boston can utilize a smaller, talented player like a Marchand because they have an established identity around him.

I don't think the NYR should throw alot of money at a player like MZA. If we can move him in a deal that can help establish our identity which imo should be a combination of size, skill and physicality, you do it.

I agree with RangerBoy. This could be a Prucha situation when we don't move a player with value that doesn't fit a long term need. I think many fans are so starved to see talent on a NYR team the lose their mind when they see some semblance of it.

Smallish forwards shouldn't be focal point, go to guys on a successful team.
MZA is an auxiliary player. He stands out because the NYR are a mess. We're a Frankenstein team currently.

Bold moves need to be made. I'm not sure we have the right people in this organization to carry them out. We'll see...

Yeah, but what is a lot of money for Zucc and what would we get in return for him?

I mean sure, if he is getting 6m per next summer and we can deal him for Dougie Hamilton make the deal.

If he is getting 3.5m per for 3 years, what would we need to get in return for him? What do you guys think we could get for him?

 

[SlingshotVv]

I really liked the first post but you totally lost me IF you are saying we should keep every single player and never give up on or trade any of them. Likewise of course you can't just be a shiny new toy person and trade everyone without giving them a chance. I have no problem jettisoning Richards but think we were fools not to have already signed MZA longer

come on you're being extreme. why would i say keep every player? Some fit into some styles and systems, and with some line-mates and some don't. The point wasn't about individual players, it was the posters that are in every thread killing everyone. All they want are new toys, all the time. Or their personal favorites.
The point wasn't about keep ALL of the players, it was about wanting a team to win, instead of wanting a roster to be formed in your mind's image.

 

[Bullseyes]

You're comprenhension is failing this Christmas morning if you think I'm against players being moved or not resigned. My original post was that it's the same fans that want the ENTIRE TEAM SOLD. Go back to the Zucc thread. Now go to the MDZ threads. Now look at Lundqvist's pre signing thread and Richards. It's the same posters. They're the same ones in the Pyatt threads, and Boyle threads.

I agree. Every time a player underperforms, people want them gone. Players like Pyatt though, they can go. Richards? He still should be bough out.

as far as relying on a team to get hot being a bad plan I point to a team having two generational talents, among a handful more top picks, bringing in one of the best trades in recent history (goligoski for Neal), and some really savvy UFA grabs, has accomplished 1 Cup, and a team that hasn't won more playoff series' over the last two years than the NYR.

They've made it to 2 Stanley Cup Finals, won 1 cup, made it to the ECFs last season, not to mention that Crosby and Malkin have missed a bunch of time including playoff time. And they have a terrible coach, sub-par winger depth a long with other issues. But they still have greater odds to win the Stanley Cup this season than the Rangers.

TBL has some of the best players in the world on their roster.

They have MSL and Stamkos but last season they had problems with their defense + goaltending.

As does, arguably, Edmonton.

They have Hall and some good players with potential like RNH, Yakupov, Eberle, etc. But their defense is terrible. Their goaltending is terrible. Their management is terrible. It's not a shock that they are this bad.

Anaheim does too, and they've experienced one Cup and not drastically more playoff wins than us over that period. Chicago and Boston are as elite as it gets right now. There's always teams like that. Sometimes it's teams that stay together forever, sometimes it's coaching staffs that do. Sometimes it's drafting Toews and Kane after tanking like mad. Each of those teams would look masively mediocre if they lost one or two players. Well that's where we are now.

Those are big players to get and players that you need to win. Players like Chara, Toews, Kane, Kopitar, Crosby, Malkin, etc. The Rangers don't have a player that matches up to them.

Relying on anything is a crapshoot. The fact that fans don't see it as such boggles my mind. You're not just a trade, or a top pick, away from a Cup. This team isn't very good because there's been a ton of turnover in this org over the last few years. The entire core has been reshuffled. The staff has been replaced. The defining players are either gone or injured. And the goaltending has been suspect, maybe due to all of that, maybe due to some of it. But it's manned with NHL talent. And there's no reason they can't win just like any other roster. It may take one or two lightbulbs to go on, it may take AV to make adjustments, it may take a Miracle on Ice level of bonding. But they can do it, and I'd rather see them do it as currently constructed than otherwise. Now if Slats makes moves, I don't cry about it, ok, new players to root for.

The better the team, the higher likelihood they have to win it all. Most 8th seeds aren't going to win it all a la the 2012 LA Kings.

Teams like the Penguins, Bruins, Kings, Blackhawks have a better chance to win it all because they're better teams than the Rangers are.

 

[hagsfan924]

If the Rangers want to shake things up a bit...
Trade Girardi, Boyle and prospect for Eberle and a 4/5 D-man (could expand trade if necessary).
Trade Del Zotto to Toronto in a deal built around Gardiner or Franson.

Nash/Stepan/Eberle
Kreider/Brassard/Zuc
Richards/Miller/Hagelin
Pouliot/Moore/Dorsett

When Callahan comes back, I would take out Richards, Pouliot, Moore or Miller whoever is struggling most.

Buyout Richards at season's end. Decide if we want to bring back Callahan and/or Brassard. Callahan can slot in as a winger on the third line, but we cannot pay him 5+ million for that.
Players that can replace Callahan and Brassard-Grabovski, Bolland, M. Raymond, Cogliano, Kristo, Lindberg and Fast.

On D:
McDonagh/Staal/Gardiner or Franson/Stralman/Moore/McIlrath/D via Girardi trade or via FA

Obviously the Rangers would be losing their 'leaders' in Callahan, Richards and Girardi in these trades. But we still have guys who can take their place in McDonagh and Stepan. Nash and Staal too. The Rangers can become more skilled with these moves which would fit Vigneault's system better.

 

[RangersHank*]

Radulov and Stafford were picked right after Montoya. Meszaros was also drafted in the first round that year. The draft was thin but choosing a goaltender in the top ten hardly ever pays off.

Radulov didnt live up to the hype, Buffalo hates Stafford and Meszaros is ok, i agree tho. Goaltending top 10 is a waste

 

[bernmeister]

Who is this "good big man" who is ready to step in and replace him? How much is that player going to cost in terms of cap dollars or assets to acquire?

It's an axiom, I did not say that Zuc was a mistake the way Pyatt is a mistake holding back minutes for a guy like Miller.

And the main point is in today's NHL, a guy like Zuc MIGHT have a place as a guy doing what he does, who contributes specialty skills like shootout specialist for post OT games; however that specialty is useless in the playoffs.

Above and beyond that is how much D is surrendered when a 5'7" guy is giving up upwards of half a foot/+, which is a lot for NHL counterparts.

In a vacuum, Zuc contributes. Pulls his way, borderline, but say yes.
However, in competitive reality vs. teams like Chicago, a luxury like Zuc we can't afford.

We need to develop or otherwise acquire that 'good big man'.
If MZA becomes freakishly strong like St. Louis, and MIGHT be able to offset lack of reach with exceptional checking otherwise due to this strength, I would keep an open mind. But on the table at present, he is worth more to us long term as a draft pick.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

In the draft, I'd prefer to pick the best available player; if that player plays a position where you already have a strength, then I'd move down and pick up a couple of extra picks. More often than not, you get the same player at say 16 than you do at say 12 to use an example. Build up your depth so you have more flexibility down the road.

or

You could still take that best available player at position of strength and move that depth down the road.

 

[Gardner McKay]

If the Rangers want to shake things up a bit...
Trade Girardi, Boyle and prospect for Eberle and a 4/5 D-man (could expand trade if necessary).
Trade Del Zotto to Toronto in a deal built around Gardiner or Franson.

Nash/Stepan/Eberle
Kreider/Brassard/Zuc
Richards/Miller/Hagelin
Pouliot/Moore/Dorsett

When Callahan comes back, I would take out Richards, Pouliot, Moore or Miller whoever is struggling most.

Buyout Richards at season's end. Decide if we want to bring back Callahan and/or Brassard. Callahan can slot in as a winger on the third line, but we cannot pay him 5+ million for that.
Players that can replace Callahan and Brassard-Grabovski, Bolland, M. Raymond, Cogliano, Kristo, Lindberg and Fast.

On D:
McDonagh/Staal/Gardiner or Franson/Stralman/Moore/McIlrath/D via Girardi trade or via FA

Obviously the Rangers would be losing their 'leaders' in Callahan, Richards and Girardi in these trades. But we still have guys who can take their place in McDonagh and Stepan. Nash and Staal too. The Rangers can become more skilled with these moves which would fit Vigneault's system better.

The problem is... the other team will have to want to make those trades. I see no reason for either of those teams to make a trade. Toronto on a needs basis. EDM on a value basis.

 

[TheTakedown]

I love MDZ, have defended him in the past, but we may have to trade him at some point this year to get forward depth.

However, I must say MDZ has played great the last few games in all facets of the game. He has played tough and battled. That is the player we saw last year when he tool on big minutes while Staal was out. I hope he continues this and I also hope he stays. I'd rather trade Girardi (and that's not because I think he has been bad for us before kenjets quotes my post to make another childish remark) than trade the younger Del Zotto.

Brassard has surprised me the most this past week. I was ready to pack his bags a few weeks ago.

Right now we face worst case scenario play from a majority of players...

The ones that do not get better are the ones that will be traded... It seems MDZ has picked up his game, and that's good...

It's looking more and more right now that Girardi will be the Defensemen to go, and not MDZ... But really going to depend on who AV finds more valuable to keep at the deadline in my opinion. Bottom line is Forward depth will be bought by the Rangers, and I see a defenseman going at the deadline

I can tell this for sure: Staal is not going Anywhere, and it seems AV is sold on him:
http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2...oncussion/note-marc-staal-is-making-progress/