Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2019-20 Part II

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Agree BUT (and it took me a while to get here) he should be given proper recognition for trades that do work out, specifically the EK trade.

We can't simply say he got lucky that (while yet unproven in the NHL) Balcers and Norris seem like top 6 F and that DeMelo and CT are both doing very well in their expected spots in the line-up. Even the SJ pick can't be argued as lucky if they stay in the bottom of half of the league as he may have thought their aging core along with shaky goaltending was due to slip.

Even Duke - perhaps the pro scouts were quite high on him and despite CBJ being more than willing to move him he thought there was a lot more there (not 40 goal pace mind you) than it seemed.

I don't think he has been that good as GM so far but he is proving me wrong on a few items.

I agree completely. I am a big believer in using hindsight to ultimately judge trades. It's their job to be trying to predict how players will pan out.

I will give him credit for the Karlsson trade at this point. It looks a lot better today than it did at the time, and I have a hard time believing none of the youth will pan out. I will wait until they do, but it looks promising between Norris, the 1st, two 2nds and Balcers. Demelo and Tierney looked like throw ins, but Demelo could end up being a keeper. While I don't like Tierney's game to want that amount of the budget allocated to him when the time comes, he is certainly a decent piece of currency at some point. I would prefer that 3-4 mil be spent elsewhere. The extra picks were good bets by Dorion as well.

Duclair is a f***ing home run. He's our best forward and arguably our best player other than maybe Chabot. I hope Dorion is able to lock him up with term. Good bet on that for sure.

It is always a mixed bag. We have been hard on the guy, but its not like it's 100% misses 100% of the time with any GM. Overall though, I have found myself in disagreement with so many choices he's made over these last couple years and I obviously like to voice that. If he ends up right and I'm wrong, awesome. If it's the other way around, I won't wave my hand and say it's solely Melnyk's fault.

 

[JD1]

True and my problem with "the hindsight" thing goes back to HSF's point above about the all in for Duchene and 3 months later deciding to move on from Karlsson and rebuild. Was it like if we only knew what we know today regarding the team's finances and readiness to compete 3 months ago?

A lot happened in those 3 months

Anderson's play fell off a cliff
Karlsson's play didn't rebound
Melnyk spouted off on parliament hill
Karlsson came out with his i am going to get what I'm worth comment

I have always believed the thinking was

Anderson will get it going
Karlsson will rebound into form
Get to the TDL and assess the holes

This is a team that was driven by a need for playoff revenue and when it became apparent that wasn't going to happen it went to hell in a hand cart

I think they were likely taken aback on the market's reaction to a potential Karlsson trade. Clearly it was a Melnyk decision to try to staple Ryan's ass to a Karlsson TDL trade.

I don't think that the comms around the Karlsson situation was handled well from the Melnyk parliament hill debacle thru to the trade. The market wanted him here. I think the team and the player wanted him gone and i don't think there was any real appetite to have said we are not going to re-sign Karlsson

Hindsight at this point says wanting to move on from him was the right hockey/budget decision

Hindsight also says not signing Turris to a 6 by 6 extension was the right call

To me, i think the interest was genuine to try to sign Duchene and Stone, both ways. Contractually we just could not get it done and I'm frankly quite good with not handing out 8 year NMC contracts

And with all that has transpired over the past 2 years, i am actually pretty excited about where we are right now. I like the coach. I like his approach. I like for the most part how the prospects are being handled / working out

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Of course his "Corsi" stats are bad. He plays against the opposing teams top lines game in and game out and doesn't throw a bunch of useless shots on the other goal.

You should watch the game and stop relying on Corsi so much.

My opinion on Zaitsev was formed by watching him with the Leafs for a few years. I'm not really a big stats guy, but I took notice of Zaitev's staggering stats awhile ago when the Leafs blogs where talking about how unmovable he was going to be then of course went a bit deeper once he was dealt to the Sens. His play and his numbers here are backing it up. We talk of tough minutes and imo the guys who play the toughest minutes are Chabot, Pageau, Brown and Demelo (once he took Zaitsev's role). If you compare those guy's numbers it tells the similar tale that everyone who plays with Zaitsev in his career performs worse with than without. Obviously, Demelo hasn't played with him much so I won't bother with the comparison. The 3 guys that play with him the most:

CF%	with Zaitsev	without Zaitsev
Chabot	44.77	57.58
Pageau	41.12	56.06
Brown	41.10	53.83

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

SF%	with Zaitsev	without Zaitsev
Chabot	44.30	57.09
Pageau	47.42	59.51
Brown	42.39	56.91

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

GF%	with Zaitsev	without Zaitsev
Chabot	42.31	55.17
Pageau	55.56	78.95
Brown	35.29	71.43

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

SCF%	with Zaitsev	without Zaitsev
Chabot	43.73	62.11
Pageau	38.54	56.56
Brown	37.77	58.13

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You can basically do that with just about every player on the roster but these three have played over 220 minutes with and without the guy. Nikita Zaitsev - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

This has been the case since he was in Toronto.

You can go further into it too and look at how top opposition performs against him on and off the ice. Nikita Zaitsev - Opposition - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

Pastranak: TOI with 28:22 TOI without 23:52. Team (Ottawa) SCF% with Zaitsev 21.43, without Zaitsev 68.75

Panarin: TOI with 14:19 TOI without 23:51. Team SCF% with 40.00, without 64.29

You can do this with most top forwards and Zaitsev.

The numbers simply don't lie when it comes to Zaitsev and its very obvious by watching him with his struggles to move the puck and his extremely low hockey IQ. This whole thing reminds me of people screaming for years about how bad Ceci was. The numbers didn't lie then. I didn't really take a side in that one and chose to think that he was young and would improve his decision making. Zaitsev isn't young and isn't going to improve. This is him in his prime and its brutal. Obviously, this goes against the grain here and will be met with hostility but I'm obviously right and in time others will join me just like they did on guys like Smith and Greening.

 

[DJB]

I'm not really a big stats guy,

This is him in his prime and its brutal. Obviously, this goes against the grain here and will be met with hostility but I'm obviously right and in time others will join me just like they did on guys like Smith and Greening.

[TBODY]

[/TBODY]

Bolded 1: Ugh you pretty much only use stats and corsi stuff to prove your points around here.

Bolded 2: Interesting that your opinion has become factual.

I'm done trying to discuss this with you. I'm sure others are as well

 

[ChurchOfAlfie]

Chris Wideman is second on his AHL team in scoring (behind Daniel Sprong), a team that's doing pretty poorly in the standings. Could think of worse emergency acquisitions, if the organization can forgive the whole Uber thing...

 

[Sensinitis]

Who gets traded first to make room for Balcers?

 

[TheNewEra]

Who gets traded first to make room for Balcers?

No one yet unfortunately

Closer to the deadline we will have spots open up when pageau ennis and maybe a couple more get traded

 

[bert]

No one yet unfortunately

Closer to the deadline we will have spots open up when pageau ennis and maybe a couple more get traded

It should be happening right now. Thats really the issue, Tierney, Pageau, Ennis, Namestinikov should all be traded.

 

[TheNewEra]

It should be happening right now. Thats really the issue, Tierney, Pageau, Ennis, Namestinikov should all be traded.

With pageau it should be done how hall was traded, where you work the market up now and trade him

The others it makes more sense to hold until the trade deadline for a desperate team to overpay. Unless some team crazy overpays now

 

[HSF]

It should be happening right now. Thats really the issue, Tierney, Pageau, Ennis, Namestinikov should all be traded.

Why? Maximize value at the deadline

Not really an 'issue'...seems like a weird thing to get upset about

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Could he be had for cheap??

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Could he be had for cheap??

I dont love the idea of trading Tierney for an asset that requires expansion protection but I could see them looking into a trade based around Tierney and Andersson.

 

[HSF]

Could he be had for cheap??

Down if the price isn't too high

Would def move Tierney for a young risky player though Andersson hasn't shown much in North America

 

[Ser Grogu]

Could he be had for cheap??

But does he do rebounds?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I dont love the idea of trading Tierney for an asset that requires expansion protection but I could see them looking into a trade based around Tierney and Andersson.

Would have to be a heck of a lot more coming back than andersson

 

[Peptic Balcers]

Interesting prospect, but he's been very underwhelming in north america

 

[Sen sational]

It should be happening right now. Thats really the issue, Tierney, Pageau, Ennis, Namestinikov should all be traded.

You will probably be disappointed with who, and how many, we trade this year. Dorion was on tsn1200 yesterday and was asked about when he starts talking to agents of UFAs. He said, in the past they had been too transparent and he would play it closer to his vest. He also went on, my interpretation, to say they want to compete to be a playoff team next year and would need vets and not just rookies to do that.

 

[aragorn]

It should be happening right now. Thats really the issue, Tierney, Pageau, Ennis, Namestinikov should all be traded.

I'm on the record for trading all of the UFAs asap but with the exception of Pageau is there a market for any of those other guys? Who would want them or who would need them? I don't see some of them going before the deadline except maybe Pageau & most likely we are probably stuck with a few of them who don't have much value & may not be traded like Boedker, Ennis, Namestikov, Goloubef & Hainsey.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The Duchene trade was in November, Karlsson was traded the following September, not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Anything happen in between? Any franchise altering decisions ? Thinking is required sometimes.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It should be happening right now. Thats really the issue, Tierney, Pageau, Ennis, Namestinikov should all be traded.

I think Dorion is trying to balance the team and its success here and the team and their success in Belleville.
He should slowly start working out some deals. I would like Belleville to have success as a team this year . It would be great for the prospects playing there.

 

[The Worst One]

I'm on the record for trading all of the UFAs asap but with the exception of Pageau is there a market for any of those other guys? Who would want them or who would need them? I don't see some of them going before the deadline except maybe Pageau & most likely we are probably stuck with a few of them who don't have much value & may not be traded like Boedker, Ennis, Namestikov, Goloubef & Hainsey.

Do you feel the same about my boy Balcers?

 

[HSF]

Someone will take hainsey and Ennis for sure for a playoff run

 

[Tuna99]

Ott: Lias Anderson
NYR: Logan Brown

 

[aragorn]

Do you feel the same about my boy Balcers?

How do you mean this? He is not a UFA & given how well he is doing in the AHL I doubt they would trade him unless he returned something they needed more or was part of a package to acquire something better. Otherwise, it's most likely they will have a long look at him at some point this season & likely after the trade deadline.

 

[The Worst One]

How do you mean this? He is not a UFA & given how well he is doing in the AHL I doubt they would trade him unless he returned something they needed more or was part of a package to acquire something better. Otherwise, it's most likely they will have a long look at him at some point this season & likely after the trade deadline.

A few month ago you said you don't see him as a long term solution. In addition, you said that he seems another version of Mikael Boedker. I was wondering if your opinions have changed given how well he's doing in Belleville?