Rumor: Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread | Current Rumor: Cam Talbot
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Bryanbryoil
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How Many Trades Does Chia Make @ The Draft? Rumors and Proposals Thread
Continue here. Do we get a new top 4D and starting goaltender on the 26th/27th?
Continue here. Do we get a new top 4D and starting goaltender on the 26th/27th?
Just some Dubnyk stats
I'm not gonna include his 19 game rookie year but he gad a .889 PCT
2010-2011 GAA 2.71 PCT .916
2011-12 GAA 2.67 PCT .914
Those are not bad #'s and very competive around the league those years. Both years he was also a .500 goalie, then things went south with the whole team.
Yes, his stats were better for sure in Minny, but that is better team with a guy named Suter on it
Here are his stats in Arz 47 GAA2.72 W9 L5 T2 PCT 0.916
Dubnyk nor goaltending was never the TRUE problem
Paralyzer008
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I'm starting to think Talbot would be breaking the bank. If the Rangers hold firm on the 1st rounder asking price, then I probably walk away.
I'd start low with the Canucks, offer our EDM 3rd to them for Lack, see if maybe pick 57 gets it done.
We're definitely going to have to trade one of our 2nd's I think for a goalie and our best bets are the guys that are 27 with a few solid years ahead like Lack and Talbot.
Jonathan Bernier would be neat, but I don't think Toronto deals him and if they do, it's going to be a heavy asking price.
I think you're trying to hover low on the available goalies though until you hit the draft floor, and then you make a tough decision depending on who's still on the board.
I'd start low with the Canucks, offer our EDM 3rd to them for Lack, see if maybe pick 57 gets it done.
We're definitely going to have to trade one of our 2nd's I think for a goalie and our best bets are the guys that are 27 with a few solid years ahead like Lack and Talbot.
Jonathan Bernier would be neat, but I don't think Toronto deals him and if they do, it's going to be a heavy asking price.
I think you're trying to hover low on the available goalies though until you hit the draft floor, and then you make a tough decision depending on who's still on the board.
am NOT saying that i am a Dubnykfan. What i am saying is that Dubnyk was NOT the problem. I do NOT think we had good coaching, defence, or management under Tambo. Players need to be pushed.
Doug Weight, one of my favorite Oilers of all time, said that after he left Edmonton he missed being pushed by Slats. He said Slats made him a better and better player because he expected it. every season he demanded the bar raisedon Doug.
Doug could never be happy with where he was. Slats would say...you have more and i demand you do it.
Doug said the only time he felt that pressure later was in Stl when Demitra got injured before the playoffs and he knew he would have to carry the load. he got 13 points in a five game elimination and was a plus 7 if i recall. he was on the ice for only two goals against. i remember how dominant he was and how surprisingly top heavy that team was to lose when thirty minutes of every game they dominated only to lose it in the other thirty.
coaching and management dont get enough credit when things go well.
i think you need to push everyone. its not goals, its expectation. this isnt optional...you need to get it done. this isnt a target...its a must.
i know for a fact that Dubnyk had that pressure when MacT arrived. Dubnyk and the other kids were handed, even against their coaches will, handed minutes and opportunities. when they failed management excused it with the growth rhetoric. so when MacT came on board and said. you need to prove yourself...he crumbled. our coaching and preparation (lack of) and our on ice chaos didnt help.
not a huge Dubnyk fan but man was that ever bad management and bad coaching. bad management from Tambo... and we see it more now with Renney finally bringing things to light...(the lack of expectation, the forcing of coaches to play the kids more etc thus taking the coaches own instincts away).
Doug Weight, one of my favorite Oilers of all time, said that after he left Edmonton he missed being pushed by Slats. He said Slats made him a better and better player because he expected it. every season he demanded the bar raisedon Doug.
Doug could never be happy with where he was. Slats would say...you have more and i demand you do it.
Doug said the only time he felt that pressure later was in Stl when Demitra got injured before the playoffs and he knew he would have to carry the load. he got 13 points in a five game elimination and was a plus 7 if i recall. he was on the ice for only two goals against. i remember how dominant he was and how surprisingly top heavy that team was to lose when thirty minutes of every game they dominated only to lose it in the other thirty.
coaching and management dont get enough credit when things go well.
i think you need to push everyone. its not goals, its expectation. this isnt optional...you need to get it done. this isnt a target...its a must.
i know for a fact that Dubnyk had that pressure when MacT arrived. Dubnyk and the other kids were handed, even against their coaches will, handed minutes and opportunities. when they failed management excused it with the growth rhetoric. so when MacT came on board and said. you need to prove yourself...he crumbled. our coaching and preparation (lack of) and our on ice chaos didnt help.
not a huge Dubnyk fan but man was that ever bad management and bad coaching. bad management from Tambo... and we see it more now with Renney finally bringing things to light...(the lack of expectation, the forcing of coaches to play the kids more etc thus taking the coaches own instincts away).
Suxnet
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The reason behind Dubnyk's good numbers in the past was because of the Smid-Petry pairing, which no one seems to mention. They were a pretty good shutdown pairing that faced top comp, reduced high quality shots and cleared the slot and d-zone quite well, which is far better than anything we have now. It's no coincidence that Petry looked worse than ever before after Smid was traded. They complimented each other real well and they had good numbers on the ice even when the Oilers were complete junk everywhere else.
duul
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The only defenceman on our entire roster who would have been playing on a playoff team this year is Fayne, and he would be a third pairing guy.
Think about that for a second. We have one defenceman currently who would be able to play in actual good teams defence corps.
Let's go by salary:
Nikitin is a healthy scratch on nearly every team in the league,
Fayne is a top 4 guy on most teams, bottom pairing on the top teams.
Ference is a healthy.
Klefbom is not playing on a playoff team unless they have injuries. Could see him as a #6.
Schultz is either not playing or a PP specialist ala M.A. Bergeron.
Marincin no.
Aulie no.
Davidson no.
So tell me, how on earth is any goalie who comes here supposed to look anything other than atrocious?
Think about that for a second. We have one defenceman currently who would be able to play in actual good teams defence corps.
Let's go by salary:
Nikitin is a healthy scratch on nearly every team in the league,
Fayne is a top 4 guy on most teams, bottom pairing on the top teams.
Ference is a healthy.
Klefbom is not playing on a playoff team unless they have injuries. Could see him as a #6.
Schultz is either not playing or a PP specialist ala M.A. Bergeron.
Marincin no.
Aulie no.
Davidson no.
So tell me, how on earth is any goalie who comes here supposed to look anything other than atrocious?
4 including some draft shuffling
2 trades including 5 nhl players total <->
2 trades moving picks around
Dubnyk last year was so bad he got traded with retention to Nashville, then traded with Retention to Montreal to play on their farm team as a backup. Let that sink in.
This year he completely turned it around and played well but no one could of predicted that. Arizona was aiming to tank and grabbed him. They weren't planning on having to trade him cause he was too good.
This year he completely turned it around and played well but no one could of predicted that. Arizona was aiming to tank and grabbed him. They weren't planning on having to trade him cause he was too good.
i think we have a new vet Centre too. a top six. at no cost to our centre depth...and his name is not McDavid.
i think Joe Thorton.
i think at the Draft we walk away with McDavid and Joe.
goaltender on day two...and maybe a new top four rhd on day two as well.
Nikitin was worse here then he had ever been in his career. Injuries really messed with him
Fayne is one of those guys you couple with a very good defender and will never look out of place, but isn't quite good enough to carry the pairing. Perfect complimentary second pairing defender.
Ference is a bottom pairing defender on most teams.
Klefbom would play on the bottom pairing on a top team or in the top 4 if they have a strong vet with him
Schultz also bottom pairing.
Paralyzer008
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Smid-Petry was a great pairing. It's interesting to see Petry get better while Smid got worse as their careers go on (although Smid's injuries haven't helped).
Dubnyk was still 6th in shots against though, so to say that's the sole reason why he looked good isn't completely true.
We can't afford to move big assets for a guy like Thornton...which will take to get him. If we do then we don't improve our defense even close to enough.
Suxnet
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the big asset youd move is the 16. they dont want the headache and he controls everything. he has told them to f off a couple times already. the only way he is open to being traded is in the off season and only to his team of choice.
san jose can enjoy the freak show if they want to stay with him but all signs say they want out. they will take what they can get. 16 in a deepdraft...and with them at 9 already and having Pavs and Marleau and Couts? its time to move him now. he wont be signing again with them, he wont be allowing a trade during the year.
he has allllll the power.
I hate the phrase "stay the course" when it's mentioned along side the Oilers. I've made this argument before, but staying the course is what has seen the Oilers become the worst, most embarrassing franchise in NHL history. What we've been doing doesn't work. It's not going to all of a sudden work just because we have a new person in charge.
We haven't even gone through this draft, or this free agency period and you're already suggesting the team prep for the 16/17 season? The goal should be playoffs this upcoming season and anything less than at the very least being in the playoff discussion for the bulk of the season should be viewed as an outright failure and waste of a season. There are no more "developmental" years. We can't keep wasting these young guys prime producing years.
molsonmuscle360
Registered User
I'm sorry, I love Laddy, one of my favorite Oilers of the last decade, but his body is broken down in a serious way. Sure should have got a better deal, but his play was falling drastically.
i thought Nikitin looked really solid until his leg twisted in four directions at once. i actually threw up in my mouth a bit when i saw the slow mo replay of it the first time.
I donno about that. Nikitin had basically become the #7 d-man in Columbus. I mean christ they picked up Nick Schultz from us for a 5th and played him ahead of Nikitin.
Nikitin has been a 6/7 guy for 2 seasons now.
duul
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It's all relative. Nikitin hardly played in Columbus for a reason. They have a good defence group there, but they're not even in the top echelon. I would say their group of D is in the top 10, and Nikitin while he was there hardly played. Was even a healthy scratch at times.
Paralyzer008
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I remember the day we signed Nikitin, this burned into my head on repeat. Apologies but you have to go to the link because CBC Sports is the owner.
Suxnet
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I don't disagree with that, but what I'm saying is, he was good for us back in the day and that's a big reason why Dubnyk had acceptable numbers.
Is anyone suggesting just improve goaltending? The Oilers have the assets and money to do both. Anything less than both should be considered a failure.
The Oilers had both the worst defense, and the worst goaltending in the league last season. It's easy to say that no goalie could play good playing behind that defense, but lets not pretend Fasth and Scrivens were something they aren't. These guys were literally 3rd string goalies on the two teams we picked them up from. They not only had better starters, they had better back ups. It's no surprise that they were both utter failures here.
Thats like saying "I know my table top is ugly and broken but no table top would look good on these ugly legs"
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