zuckera1
#35
What's our problem in the playoffs? Goals. Spezza can help with that. Staal is likely off to Carolina after next year too.
Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread XIII
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What's our problem in the playoffs? Goals. Spezza can help with that. Staal is likely off to Carolina after next year too.
zuckera1
#35
Maybe not, but if we can sign Spezza after his deal expires we'll be better off in the future years if Staal leaves and if JT underachieves.
We'd also have some additional capspace next year to resign both Cally/G or sign a LD or a winger.
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
Spezza will cost even more to sign and is turning 31. Giving him his next contract will undoubtedly mean overpaying for someone whose going to decline. Giving up a young potential 2C when a lesser, slightly younger and somewhat comparable C can be had for free in UFA is poor asset management.
The Gloaming
23
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
zuckera1
#35
Not for nothing, but I don't believe JT will ever be a 2C. I think his ceiling is a solid 3C, but I hope I'm wrong.
How is it poor asset management to trade a player who we may lose for nothing after next year in Staal?
We're never going to be in a position to draft or even sign a legit first-line center. I'd take Spezza years 31-37 than Stastny for years 28-35. Keep in mind we'd have more cap flexibility because Staal's 4 million would be off the books.
zuckera1
#35
Spezza at 31 is a much better player than Stastny at 28. AND, he can run the powerplay.
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
I said its poor asset management to move Miller. I just don't want Spezza for what he'll cost. Rather keep our guys and sign a younger player who can help. Even if he just replaces Richards as a younger guy with more in his tank. Rather keep the guys and do that than go for Spezza.
I seriously doubt it, especially if Girardi is moved in the next couple of weeks. Staal will most likely get locked up over the summer.
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
cd211
Registered User
tons and tons of it.. g and cally are getting 6m+ and we'll trade them for a bunch of a prospects and picks so don't worry will be good. their old and washed up.. 28 and 29 are the new 40
All speculation all based on the "brothers" angle which I don't think means a whole lot at this point. If Staal had a stanley cup under his belt, I would at least think it had legs.
But the Rangers are in a much better position to contend than Carolina. If Staal does leave, he will go to a contending team. Its not the Canes.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
Stastny is actually having a better season statistically then Spezza right now. On pace for 61 pts vs Spezza's 57, is a +7 vs Spezza's -21 and is 3 or 4 years younger. Not to mention he's a much better two way player then Spezza.
If the Rangers would like to try to add another center via trade or free agency after buying Richards out its Stastny 10 out of 10 times. The pieces you trade to get Spezza could be used to fill another organizational hole.
If the Rangers would like to try to add another center via trade or free agency after buying Richards out its Stastny 10 out of 10 times. The pieces you trade to get Spezza could be used to fill another organizational hole.
Yeah, I mean I think its a no brainer who to pick if it came down to Spezza and Statsny. One guy only costs money.
zuckera1
#35
True but 57 points is a down season for Spezza, 61 is pretty much what you expect from Stastny. He'll likely never go higher than that, whereas Spezza could easily be PPG with the right pieces around him (Nash).
Here's the difference between them: Stastny is a 1C/2C who's comparable with Stepan. To me having both on the team is redundant. Spezza is a legit first-line center who can run the powerplay better than Richards can.
If Stastny hits UFA he'll likely get 7 million, Spezza probably won't get much more than that when his current deal expires. So for similar cap-hits, I'd take Spezza.
eco's bones
Registered User
Miller with 18 points in 15 games in Hartford. He's 20 years old and not playing for a very good team. He had 23 points in 42 games last year for a better team. Pro-rated this year is better than twice last year's production. Pro-rated for a 76 game AHL season--he'd be a 90 point player. He's improving--our best AHL prospect IMO. Probably not a 1st liner but a decent chance he'll be a 2nd liner and if not he should be a very, very good 3rd liner. He has size, strength, skating. He will defend himself. I'm not in a hurry to move him.
The correct argument about why trading Girardi and Callahan may not be the wrong move:
Girardi -
1) He doesn't fit the coach's system. Plain and simple. Square peg in a round hole.
2) Will be on the wrong side of 30 by the time his next contract starts.
3) Will likely want a max length contract and more money than he's worth.
4) By the time that contract is over he will be 37/38 and at a cap hit of likely over 6 mill/yr.
5) Major potential wear and tear.
Callahan -
1) Is only a year younger than Girardi, which means that points 3 and 4 are relevant for Cally too.
2) Is injury prone with the style of play he has. What use is he if he's off the ice due to an injury or not playing at 100% if he's playing through an injury
3) He'll likely want north of 6 million too for putting up the production of a 3rd liner.
Now you look at those lists and you wonder how its not a no-brainer to trade them. But the hard part is the intangibles they offer. The work ethic they bring. The leadership they bring. What they do for our particular locker room. Too much turnover in a locker room and it causes turbulence. We didn't get our winning identity back for a year and a half after the Nash trade/slew of UFA let goes from 2 offseasons ago.
You also look at where they came from - within the depth of our organization, and you wonder how not rewarding them for being good soldiers will resonate with our other players. For Dubinsky, he took major offense, and he's playing harder than he did for us just trying to make us look bad for trading him. Cally and Girardi, if traded, strike me as players that will use that as major motivation to make us look bad for trading/letting them go.
In my opinion, you can NOT trade them both. Absolutely not. You're already losing Richards this offseason. You face the potential possibility of having Staal walk away after next season too. Those are 4 guys that are all captain material walking out of the locker room doors. I know some of you like to live in the fantasy world where every move in a vacuum should work out... that's not how the real world works. Players have emotional connections to their team mates. They succeed when they grow together. They succeed when a certain dynamic is present. You try and keep that for as long as you can.
So when i'm looking at who the team should trade.. and my options are Cally and Girardi, naturally I wouldn't choose to trade either of them until the middle of their next contracts. The only case I can make for why Girardi should realistically be traded is that he doesn't fit the coach's system. And for that reason, if I had to choose between the 2, he would be the guy I would try and trade. But if you trade him, you have to absolutely make sure you retain Staal.
As for Callahan, the fear that he sit more games in the press box due to injury than he will play for us is legitimate. But that risk is apparent for any player. You can't lose him if you lose Girardi. Just should not happen.
As for where else you could retool. Brassard should be on the block. Pouloit too. Dorsett's need is gone now that Carcillo is here.
I would not trade Moore or Boyle. Moore came out of retirement to play in a place where he's comfortable. We want a good connotation about how our F.O handles players, and signing Moore because he felt comfortable here after his personal situation and keeping him when we could trade him for a good return is what earns the respect of agents and players. You guys want discounts from heart guys... things like that will earn some. As for Boyle, I think he's more useful to us than a 2nd round pick, even moving forward. He's another heart guy. A guy you want on your team come the playoffs. A guy that Vigneault trusts. A guy that bails our guys out when they make a stupid mistake. He's not looking at a gross new contract.
So realistically... should the F.O retool... Brassard, Pouloit, and Girardi are the candidates, in my book. Cally, Boyle, Moore, Zucc shouldn't be touched.
Furthermore, F.O should have determined by now if Staal is willing to resign. If he's not, swap him with Girardi in terms of players used for retooling. One of them needs to stay. Period. Can't lose both.
Girardi -
1) He doesn't fit the coach's system. Plain and simple. Square peg in a round hole.
2) Will be on the wrong side of 30 by the time his next contract starts.
3) Will likely want a max length contract and more money than he's worth.
4) By the time that contract is over he will be 37/38 and at a cap hit of likely over 6 mill/yr.
5) Major potential wear and tear.
Callahan -
1) Is only a year younger than Girardi, which means that points 3 and 4 are relevant for Cally too.
2) Is injury prone with the style of play he has. What use is he if he's off the ice due to an injury or not playing at 100% if he's playing through an injury
3) He'll likely want north of 6 million too for putting up the production of a 3rd liner.
Now you look at those lists and you wonder how its not a no-brainer to trade them. But the hard part is the intangibles they offer. The work ethic they bring. The leadership they bring. What they do for our particular locker room. Too much turnover in a locker room and it causes turbulence. We didn't get our winning identity back for a year and a half after the Nash trade/slew of UFA let goes from 2 offseasons ago.
You also look at where they came from - within the depth of our organization, and you wonder how not rewarding them for being good soldiers will resonate with our other players. For Dubinsky, he took major offense, and he's playing harder than he did for us just trying to make us look bad for trading him. Cally and Girardi, if traded, strike me as players that will use that as major motivation to make us look bad for trading/letting them go.
In my opinion, you can NOT trade them both. Absolutely not. You're already losing Richards this offseason. You face the potential possibility of having Staal walk away after next season too. Those are 4 guys that are all captain material walking out of the locker room doors. I know some of you like to live in the fantasy world where every move in a vacuum should work out... that's not how the real world works. Players have emotional connections to their team mates. They succeed when they grow together. They succeed when a certain dynamic is present. You try and keep that for as long as you can.
So when i'm looking at who the team should trade.. and my options are Cally and Girardi, naturally I wouldn't choose to trade either of them until the middle of their next contracts. The only case I can make for why Girardi should realistically be traded is that he doesn't fit the coach's system. And for that reason, if I had to choose between the 2, he would be the guy I would try and trade. But if you trade him, you have to absolutely make sure you retain Staal.
As for Callahan, the fear that he sit more games in the press box due to injury than he will play for us is legitimate. But that risk is apparent for any player. You can't lose him if you lose Girardi. Just should not happen.
As for where else you could retool. Brassard should be on the block. Pouloit too. Dorsett's need is gone now that Carcillo is here.
I would not trade Moore or Boyle. Moore came out of retirement to play in a place where he's comfortable. We want a good connotation about how our F.O handles players, and signing Moore because he felt comfortable here after his personal situation and keeping him when we could trade him for a good return is what earns the respect of agents and players. You guys want discounts from heart guys... things like that will earn some. As for Boyle, I think he's more useful to us than a 2nd round pick, even moving forward. He's another heart guy. A guy you want on your team come the playoffs. A guy that Vigneault trusts. A guy that bails our guys out when they make a stupid mistake. He's not looking at a gross new contract.
So realistically... should the F.O retool... Brassard, Pouloit, and Girardi are the candidates, in my book. Cally, Boyle, Moore, Zucc shouldn't be touched.
Furthermore, F.O should have determined by now if Staal is willing to resign. If he's not, swap him with Girardi in terms of players used for retooling. One of them needs to stay. Period. Can't lose both.
You may think so. Not in reality. Lose Callahan, lose Girardi, lose Staal, lose Richards... it will take years to recover.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
I completely disagree. You've got Hank as the backbone of the team, McD as the "lead by example" guy and Stepan as the natural leader.
Girardi, Callahan and Staal all represent the old guard and are replaceable.
I've never seen a successful team radically move parts the way that some of you guys suggest we do and still be successful. Took Chicago 4 years after they moved off some of their depth guys... depth guys, not core guys... to get back to the level they wanted to be at.
Boston moved off Seguin in the off season to retool.
Pittsburgh moved Staal in the off season to retool.
Anaheim moved Ryan in the off season to retool.
Those are the successful teams you all love to allude to and drool over. They have management that is competent, according to everyone on here. None have radically changed the landscape of their locker room. Chicago was the most radical and they shipped off, again, depth guys - They kept Hossa, Sharp, Toews, Kane. They even gave increases to keep these guys together. Boston went to the SC finals last year... they wanted to retool. They traded 1 guy who had immense talent but didn't hold a leadership position in that locker room. In the process, they not only added 2 significant young pieces of talent back, they ensured that they would get Iginla (mind you on an over inflated contract for his abilities at this age) to help with the transition. Anaheim did the same thing in a similar position, but they made sure they resigned Teemu, Sakku, gave massive extensions to Perry and Getzlaf. Pittsburgh sold off their 3rd line center. That's it. Don't think they're not worried about Malkin, giving him a raise, and his longterm position for the club when he hasn't remained healthy in 5 years? Callahan isn't half the points producer Malkin can be, but the comparison is made to show you that the risk of extending an often injured player is apparent no matter who it is.
None of these teams sold off multiple key components to their success, and arguably none of them even sold 1 of their key components off.
Are some of you mad? Trade Girardi, Callahan, Staal, and amnesty Richards?
That's called a ****ing rebuild, and the second we start having to deal with the ups and downs (mostly downs) of a rebuild everyone will ***** and whine about how bad a team we are. Be careful what you wish for.
Boston moved off Seguin in the off season to retool.
Pittsburgh moved Staal in the off season to retool.
Anaheim moved Ryan in the off season to retool.
Those are the successful teams you all love to allude to and drool over. They have management that is competent, according to everyone on here. None have radically changed the landscape of their locker room. Chicago was the most radical and they shipped off, again, depth guys - They kept Hossa, Sharp, Toews, Kane. They even gave increases to keep these guys together. Boston went to the SC finals last year... they wanted to retool. They traded 1 guy who had immense talent but didn't hold a leadership position in that locker room. In the process, they not only added 2 significant young pieces of talent back, they ensured that they would get Iginla (mind you on an over inflated contract for his abilities at this age) to help with the transition. Anaheim did the same thing in a similar position, but they made sure they resigned Teemu, Sakku, gave massive extensions to Perry and Getzlaf. Pittsburgh sold off their 3rd line center. That's it. Don't think they're not worried about Malkin, giving him a raise, and his longterm position for the club when he hasn't remained healthy in 5 years? Callahan isn't half the points producer Malkin can be, but the comparison is made to show you that the risk of extending an often injured player is apparent no matter who it is.
None of these teams sold off multiple key components to their success, and arguably none of them even sold 1 of their key components off.
Are some of you mad? Trade Girardi, Callahan, Staal, and amnesty Richards?
That's called a ****ing rebuild, and the second we start having to deal with the ups and downs (mostly downs) of a rebuild everyone will ***** and whine about how bad a team we are. Be careful what you wish for.
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