Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

[Kwayry]

RoR has shown progression in each year in the league. Whereas MDZ had a good offensive output one year, bombed the next, then came back with a great year last year. They both had very good years last year, but what makes MDZ more proven at this point than RoR?

DZ has scored 40 points twice, RoR has never produced 60+.

 

[NYR Viper]

yup, the unquantifiable argument.
Players are paid for what they produce on the ice, that is measured by stats, whether we like it or we don't.

And you just proved my point. If you haven't watched him play you wouldn't understand. By your logic Gaborik > Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Nash, Perry, Toews, Kane, Parise, Staal, Zetterberg.

Points aren't everything. Players who play all-around games and have an effect on the game outside of the stat-sheet are more valuable in real life.

 

[NYR Viper]

DZ has scored 40 points twice, RoR has never produced 60+.

Do they play in a vacuum? MDZ played a ton on the PP with Richards + Gaborik. ROR plays with a rookie in Landeskog against the other teams best players every night.

 

[TheRedViper]

DZ has scored 40 points twice, RoR has never produced 60+.

That doesn't answer my question...? MDZ has produced close to 40 points once, and hit 40 the other time. The first rime around, he was brutal defensively. BUT he's showing progression.
What is different from MDZ's progression, from
1. MDZ sucks defensively, but put up 40 pts
2. MDZ spends the year in the minors
3. MDZ comes back strong offensively and with an improved defensive game
FROM RoR
1. Making the NHL as a defensive forward immediately post draft posting small offensive totals.
2. STAYING in the NHL in year 2, improving his offensive numbers slightly but still playing at a high defensive level
3. Still maintaining strong defensive play, but greatly improving his offensive numbers.

 

[Kwayry]

And you just proved my point. If you haven't watched him play you wouldn't understand. By your logic Gaborik > Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Nash, Perry, Toews, Kane, Parise, Staal, Zetterberg.

Points aren't everything. Players who play all-around games and have an effect on the game outside of the stat-sheet are more valuable in real life.

By my logic, DZ is more valuable than RoR.

The other comparisons are yours not mine, it is called hyperbole.

 

[Leetch66]

Trade for ROR even if we lose DZ in the deal . I think we could find a D somewhere to play a few minutes a game via FA until we develop one . ROR gives us youth and vigor which we lack from BR and Gabby . He will be a better fit moving forward with the Swedes coming in eventually and Miller & CK developing further .

I would sooner invest in a young guy then bring in another worn out veteran which never works for our team and very seldom for other teams either . Let the Penguins throw away drafts for him .

 

[NYR Viper]

By my logic, DZ is more valuable than RoR.

The other comparisons are yours not mine, it is called hyperbole.

Have you seen ROR play?

I think that is the main point we seem to be dodging

 

[TheRedViper]

By my logic, DZ is more valuable than RoR.

The other comparisons are yours not mine, it is called hyperbole.

And what logic is that?

 

[TheRedViper]

Trade for ROR even if we lose DZ in the deal . I think we could find a D somewhere to play a few minutes a game via FA until we develop one . ROR gives us youth and vigor which we lack from BR and Gabby . He will be a better fit moving forward with the Swedes coming in eventually and Miller & CK developing further .

I would sooner invest in a young guy then bring in another worn out veteran which never works for our team and very seldom for other teams either . Let the Penguins throw away drafts for him .

Stralman is capable of giving us the 2nd pairing minutes that we lose at ES. McDonagh, Staal, Stralman can all play the point on the PP

 

[Barnaby]

A two-way shut down center like RoR? These guys are incredibly rare. If the right deal comes, then you make it... I like MDZ, but he's obviously not the answer on the PP, and we have other guys in the cupboard.

RoR is tailor made to go up against the top centers in this division (Crosby, Malkin, Tavares, Giroux)

Again, not at all costs, and salary is an issue looking at other you guys coming up for deals. I'm not handing RoR anything that I'm not ready to give McDonagh...

 

[mas0764]

RoR is not a top C prospect, your statement says it all.

No. He is a top center prospect. The word "prospect" means he isn't one yet, but is expected to reach that status, so of course there is some uncertainty.

As a prospect, ROR is not particularly risky or unlikely to reach that level. The fact that he's done it once is actually evidence that he's likely to only get better from there.

"If he pans out". Nothing in his background says he is, except for one good season out of 3.

22 year olds don't often suddenly get worse for no reason, they are generally improving their games. If you get to pretend that it's a big mystery as to whether ROR will ever put up another 50 point season, I get to say the exact same thing about the 22 year old MDZ... who, by the way, has only put up 40 points..... ONCE.

You hedged again.

It's not 100% certain. It's likely, though. It's as likely as any time a team has ever traded for a prospect.

The question is, is it better to have a proven 40 point dman or a likely #1 center if he pans out based on a 1 good season.
I will take the sure thing everytime.

You are disingenuously insinuating that a 22 year old center with excellent defensive potential and one 55 point season on his resume out of 3 seasons total, is somehow more of a risk than a 22 year old defenseman who only has one 40 point season on his resume out of 3.

 

[mas0764]

DZ has scored 40 points twice, RoR has never produced 60+.

Well that is not a true statement.

 

[RangerBoy]

All that we know is according to Bob McKenzie is the Rangers would LOVE to get O'Reilly. According to Adrian Dater,the Avs want a D. Larry Brooks wrote it was the contract demands which are the issue. Elliotte Friedman brought up DZ for ROR. Slats balked when the Avs tried to put more players in the deal. The Rangers would swap Del Zotto for O'Reilly. Regarding the cap stuff,how much will the Rangers allocate to one position? Paying O'Reilly $4M when he is a top six forward isn't the same as paying DZ $4M to play on the 2nd or 3rd pair.

 

[Killem Dafoe]

By my logic, DZ is more valuable than RoR.

The other comparisons are yours not mine, it is called hyperbole.

But it's apples and oranges. ROR is a fantastic player and a guy we need right now. MDZ is a great young PMD, but at this point losing a D-Man who plays on the bottom pairing most nights for a great, young center is worth it. We need a PMD for the PP but honestly, MDZ hasn't been the answer for us in that department thus far. Trading MDZ for ROR makes us better, imo.

 

[Ail]

Just to drive the point home; it is counter-productive to argue against this trade using cap implications as your point. Management is NOT going to make this trade if they think it will cause them cap issues in the near future.

 

[Kwayry]

Have you seen ROR play?

I think that is the main point we seem to be dodging

No need to revert to insults.
I have watched RoR play, he is a good player, not a great player, he is a good 2C, he is not a 1C.
I would gladly have him on the rangers, the question is at what price? Not DZ at this point.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

If DZ scores tonight half of you will say not to trade him anymore.

 

[NYR Viper]

No need to revert to insults.
I have watched RoR play, he is a good player, not a great player, he is a good 2C, he is not a 1C.
I would gladly have him on the rangers, the question is at what price? Not DZ at this point.

I was not insulting you at all. All I did was ask a question?

He is a 21 year old 2c. You think him developing over the next 6 years until he reaches his prime puts him at the same point?

 

[Kwayry]

This board falls in love with a shiny new object and all of a sudden DZ, a 22 year old, who is showing signs of steady progression, is a team player by signing a bridge contract with good terms, is trash.
By the way if RoR is such a great player, why haven't other teams, who desperately need a 1C, traded for him already?

 

[TheRedViper]

This board falls in love with a shiny new object and all of a sudden DZ, a 22 year old, who is showing signs of steady progression, is a team player by signing a bridge contract with good terms, is trash.
By the way if RoR is such a great player, why haven't other teams, who desperately need a 1C, traded for him already?

Who's calling MDZ trash... Just because we're willing to make a trade doesn't mean he's garbage in our opinions. Who's to say other teams haven't tried to trade for him? You're reaching on a LOT of your arguments...

 

[Killem Dafoe]

My brutha, It's not like we all want MDZ out and were foaming at the mouth to get rid of
him. He's a great player, but unfortunately you need to trade great players to get great
players. We need strength up front and to land a young, solid 2-way Center like ROR you
need to give something good. MDZ makes the most sense in terms of good D-men (which is
what they are asking for) We didn't pick MDZ for the trade that was rumor and we're saying
that's a decent trade for a guy like ROR.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

imagine if Sather is talking about signing Cal O'Reilly instead of trading for Ryan?? LMAO

 

[The Gloaming]

This board falls in love with a shiny new object and all of a sudden DZ, a 22 year old, who is showing signs of steady progression, is a team player by signing a bridge contract with good terms, is trash.
By the way if RoR is such a great player, why haven't other teams, who desperately need a 1C, traded for him already?

For the same reason that we didn't trade for Nash at the trade deadline? Too high of a price.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

This board falls in love with a shiny new object and all of a sudden DZ, a 22 year old, who is showing signs of steady progression, is a team player by signing a bridge contract with good terms, is trash.
By the way if RoR is such a great player, why haven't other teams, who desperately need a 1C, traded for him already?

Have you ever watched ROR play? Serious question.

 

[Kwayry]

My brutha, It's not like we all want MDZ out and were foaming at the mouth to get rid of
him. He's a great player, but unfortunately you need to trade great players to get great
players. We need strength up front and to land a young, solid 2-way Center like ROR you
need to give something good. MDZ makes the most sense in terms of good D-men (which is
what they are asking for) We didn't pick MDZ for the trade that was rumor and we're saying
that's a decent trade for a guy like ROR.

Good argument, and I would add that DZ is stuck behind McD and Staal on the left side. Trading him for a righty PMD makes a lot of sense.
My argument is simple, DZ is more valuable than RoR.
Besides the fact that DZ is a 40 point scoring PMD, which is a premium position, he is signed and RoR is not.
If they want to trade RoR and Barrie/Elliott for DZ + pick, I would be all over it.