Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Some of you guys are just SO HUNGRY to make a deal for the sake of making one. Just leave the team be and let them develop ... heck even if this year doesn't work out, it wouldn't be the worst thing to let the team come into a real camp next year, learn, gel, get conditioned, etc. Too much turn over on a team is a HORRIBLE thing.

It took the Heat a full year...

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Let's do Colton Orr for Del Zotto! Seriously, have you had a post that wasn't saying how terrible Del Zotto or Staal are?

I know I tend to rag on both of them but I really believe in my heart that Del Zotto's lack of hockey smarts will hinder his growth especially defensively where he looks lost far too often.

 

[slipknottin]

Stepan is a proven forward.

The Avs aren't necessarily in the driver's seat, here. They can either sit on an unsigned ROR or they can move him for what they get.

I dont see how giving up Stepan for ROR does anything for this team. Then they are just as limited at center as they were before the trade.

Moving a 51 point guy for a 55 point guy isnt really much of an improvement.

They need ROR AND Stepan.

 

[Championship*]

When Corey Pronman over at Hockey Prospectus did his Top 50 under 23 rankings last fall, O'Reilly checked in at 17th. Del Zotto was 28th. Stepan was 34th.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1398

Pronman is a class A jack ass.

 

[Krams]

Some of you guys are just SO HUNGRY to make a deal for the sake of making one. Just leave the team be and let them develop ... heck even if this year doesn't work out, it wouldn't be the worst thing to let the team come into a real camp next year, learn, gel, get conditioned, etc. Too much turn over on a team is a HORRIBLE thing.

Agreed, but this is pretty much the year right now. Next year we're going to be in for a rocky ride with the cap going down.

 

[NYR Viper]

Do you really think they'd give us ROR and Johnson their only good defenseman?

I do. But he has a concussion right now. Not sure how severe etc.

They may just want a major shake-up. They have young dmen on the way.

 

[Krams]

I dont see how giving up Stepan for ROR does anything for this team. Then they are just as limited at center as they were before the trade.

Moving a 51 point guy for a 55 point guy isnt really much of an improvement.

Then you haven't watched ROR play.

 

[GregSirico]

Johnson would be the perfect final piece for the Rangers top 4. Great skater. Positionally sound. Hard shot. Big guy. RD.

Thought he was hurt?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Say what you want about Del Zotto. He's still our best offensive defenseman. Stralman has a shot that gets on net, but he rarely scores or creates a goal with it. If Stralman is your best offensive D-man you have a problem.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Suggested it would take Del Zotto. I'd do that trade without hesitation. Del Zotto is going to command a ton on his next contract.

McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Stralman is a fine top four. Its a lot easier to find cheap 3rd pair players as stop gaps until Skjei/McIlrath/Noreau are ready. McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi are far more important to this club then Del Zotto is, IMO.

O'Reilly would be a great addition. O'Reilly, Stepan, Miller, Lindberg is very good depth down the middle.

I feel exactly the same way as you do.

 

[The Gloaming]

Stepan is a proven forward.

The Avs aren't necessarily in the driver's seat, here. They can either sit on an unsigned ROR or they can move him for what they get.

Proven forward most certainly means proven winger in the Avs case.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Agreed, but this is pretty much the year right now. Next year we're going to be in for a rocky ride with the cap going down.

the cap is going down very little next year, Rangers are not just built for this year and next year imo.

 

[GregSirico]

Agreed, but this is pretty much the year right now. Next year we're going to be in for a rocky ride with the cap going down.

The cap point is a very good one ... but you have a shortened season and the team already hasn't clicked on all cylinders and you guys want to make deals ... sheesh.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Boyle is a proven forward and would be a cheaper 3rd line center for them

 

[slipknottin]

Then you haven't watched ROR play.

No, thats not my point. ROR is a better player, yes. But that isnt helping the team overall that much. Because they are also losing all of Stepans production.

Richards + ROR is not that much better than Richards + Stepan. Especially when compared to Richards + ROR + Stepan.

I never understood why some are so eager to give away a 22 year old 50+ point player.

 

[GregSirico]

Say what you want about Del Zotto. He's still our best offensive defenseman. Stralman has a shot that gets on net, but he rarely scores or creates a goal with it. If Stralman is your best offensive D-man you have a problem.

BINGO! Which is why this trade makes NO SENSE.

 

[NYR Viper]

Say what you want about Del Zotto. He's still our best offensive defenseman. Stralman has a shot that gets on net, but he rarely scores or creates a goal with it. If Stralman is your best offensive D-man you have a problem.

He is, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Where do you see him progressing to? Is his offensive output ceiling that much higher than Stralman or McDonagh? I don't think so.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I guess it must be because ROR is younger (though it sounds like his cap hit is gonna be pretty big from what he wants), but I can bring up many pages from the Rick Nash trade thread where almost absolutely everyone was against trading Del Zotto for him, now we're ok trading him for ROR?

 

[GregSirico]

He is, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Where do you see him progressing to? Is his offensive output ceiling that much higher than Stralman or McDonagh? I don't think so.

I think it is.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I know I tend to rag on both of them but I really believe in my heart that Del Zotto's lack of hockey smarts will hinder his growth especially defensively where he looks lost far too often.

MDZ is a flawed hockey player. He also is our only passable offensive defenseman. Ryan O'Reilly is a guy that scored 52 points total in his first 2 seasons. The guy you always rag on scored almost twice as many in his first 2 years (Stepan). How do we know 55 was not a fluke? I don't want another Brian Boyle if I'm giving up Del Zotto. Plus compare the way MDZ handled his contract issue and the way ROR did. How do you know ROR won't hold out at some point later if he has a good season? Considering he's doing it now after a 55 point season, he won't have to put up a point per game to hold out.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think it is.

I see it sometimes but mentally I think he still has some pretty large strides to make. Consistency is not a strength of his.

 

[NYR Viper]

MDZ is a flawed hockey player. He also is our only passable offensive defenseman. Ryan O'Reilly is a guy that scored 52 points total in his first 2 seasons. The guy you always rag on scored almost twice as many in his first 2 years (Stepan). How do we know 55 was not a fluke? I don't want another Brian Boyle if I'm giving up Del Zotto. Plus compare the way MDZ handled his contract issue and the way ROR did. How do you know ROR won't hold out at some point later if he has a good season? Considering he's doing it now after a 55 point season, he won't have to put up a point per game to hold out.

You can't compare O'Reilly to Boyle.

Stepan scored those points at a much older age.

 

[slipknottin]

MDZ has 10 more points a season than Staal, or Girardi. 10.

And he is almost completely useless on the power play.

You dont think 10 points can be made up elsewhere?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I see it sometimes but mentally I think he still has some pretty large strides to make. Consistency is not a strength of his.

I love McDonagh and like Stralman, but Del Zotto is in another league as a passer compared to those 2 guys. I also think you can't bank on potential 3 years down the road when you're trying to win a cup.

 

[Krams]

No, thats not my point. ROR is a better player, yes. But that isnt helping the team overall that much. Because they are also losing all of Stepans production.

Richards + ROR is not that much better than Richards + Stepan. Especially when compared to Richards + ROR + Stepan.

I never understood why some are so eager to give away a 22 year old 50+ point player.

ROR is a far more rounded player than Stepan. The only downside to ROR is that he isn't signed, which makes their values far more comparable in the context of a trade. Nobody is 'eager' to 'give away' Stepan. I'm just more willing to give up Stepan than create a major hole on defense by trading away MDZ.