Speculation: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXII: St Louis vs St Louis

[NYR Sting]

He's a 3rd liner on the Rangers currently.... He has declining point production and plays a grinding style. He also isn't needed on the PP anymore with the emergence of Pouliot. So he's basically a weak ES player and average PKer.

Declining point production? In 2011-12, he was .71 PPG player. Last season, .69. That's hardly much of a decline. You know, when Teemu Selanne played for the Avs that one horrible season, his PPG went from .78 to .41; would you have referred to that as a decline? The next season, his PPG was 1.13. No, I'm not saying Callahan is Selanne but scoring fluctuates, especially amid major change like Callahan experienced this summer and this season.

Furthermore, emergence of Pouliot? What did he emerge as, a turtlehead? Pouliot has 6 PP goals this season, Callahan has 4. Pouliot has 27 minutes more of PP time this season. Emergence of Pouliot...give me a break. They both have 7 PP points this season.

How you got to weak ES player and average PKer is beyond me. Troubling, troubling analysis. One half season of struggle with a new coach, no true training camp, and a couple of injuries means the player who was 8th a season ago in Selke voting is a weak ES player and average PKer?

 

[Jim Morrison]

So how long do we think boomer will keep this going, I love the guy and his show but this smells an awful lot like a ploy and I don't blame him for having some fun and doing it. How many of you went out of your way to listen to the show this morning to get the juicy details that never came. Callahans getting traded that's a foregone conclusion, why not drum up some rumors and **** with his 100K+ twitter followers, genius.

Because he's got a reputation. If all of this was just a blatant lie it would hurt him more than he'd like.

 

[poeman]

Please note, this is Henrik's prime. We need to go above and beyond to improve the team. If we can get first line talent we must make the move.

 

[ecemleafs]

whats the rumor?

 

[Ail]

So how long do we think boomer will keep this going, I love the guy and his show but this smells an awful lot like a ploy and I don't blame him for having some fun and doing it. How many of you went out of your way to listen to the show this morning to get the juicy details that never came. Callahans getting traded that's a foregone conclusion, why not drum up some rumors and **** with his 100K+ twitter followers, genius.

Juicy details that never came? He admitted to the MSL for Cally speculation being 100% correct. He didn't just say Callahan would be traded.

MSL for Cally straight up is pretty damn juicy as far as trade rumors go. Were you expecting him to say St. Louis hates Yzermen and wants to be Ranger?

 

[Clown Fiesta]

That's possible, but if MSL retires after next year for whatever reason, then they would be losing a skilled all-around 28 year old for a year and a half of St Louis + the ability to sign someone else whose own team didn't think was good enough to sign themselves?

I'd prefer some younger talent, although MSL would be a great return. I am still iffy on where the grit and size is going to ft in this line-up. Nash. Kreider. No one else? And I wouldn't consider Nash physical AT ALL.

We're losing Callahan regardless IMO, so I guess you have to take your chances with free agency after next season unless a deal presents itself or they feel that a prospect like Duclair will be ready in the near future. They also probably think Miller is close and can replace Callahan's intangibles.

I'd be fine with a younger player I am not totally stuck on MSL, but I haven't heard of any teams offering even a comparable talent and they won't. Callahan isn't going to get us a younger offensive upgrade, it would be a player of his ilk and I don't think we need that with Miller around. Our problem has always been finding that elite talent at a young age. MSL doesn't solve that but he adds elite talent and someone else replaces Callahan's grit. It's as good a solution as we'll find IMO.

 

[LORDE]

The same GM that got Jagr for Anson Carter under similar circumstances?

Yes, because every trade is just Sather in a room, by himself waiving his magic wand... like that famous photo-shopped picture.

There is no other, even mildly competent, GM sitting across the table who can counter or refuse.

 

[NernieBichols]

I was thinking about this as I was just running errands.

Maybe the leak was planned by both sides. NYR and TBL.

Puts pressure on both players. Callahan to lower his contract demands. St. Louis to reconsider his trade request.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The only way this happens straight up is if Callahan agrees to a deal with Tampa Bay. Sounds to me like Tampa may have been the team that was granted permission to speak to Callahan's agent several weeks ago, as it would coincide with the alleged incident where MSL asked for a trade.

I admire Marty very much as a player. He's one of the best in the game, but he's pushing 40 and certainly can't play forever. This screams desperation from Sather. Instead of building for the long haul, he's trying to catch lightning in a bottle once again (no pun intended).

Sums up my thoughts. No doubt it makes the team better this year, and next. Nothing against MSL. And I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have fun watching him.

But ultimately don't see it being good enough. More chasing ghosts instead of actually building something from the ground up. Keep the wheels spinning.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I was thinking about this as I was just running errands.

Maybe the leak was planned by both sides. NYR and TBL.

Puts pressure on both players. Callahan to lower his contract demands. St. Louis to reconsider his trade request.

Not sure how it would make St. Louis reconsider a trade request.

However, on the NYR side, I think theres plenty of reason to suggest the leak came as more of a shot across the bow to Callahan -- they are serious about trading him.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

MSL would be a God send for this team in terms of adding pure talent and will-power. The guy is a freak. He and MZA would be exactly what this team needs as far as skilled playmaking forwards.

However, the lack of any size/grit would alarm me with this move.

Same here. Plus nothing long term. I guess its better than losing him for nothing, and we dont know what other teams are offering, but i'd like to get some youth back in one form or another. This is a head scratcher for me. From TB's perspective its better longterm than short, if Cally signs - which is why Sather and co. need to get a conditional pick back. 3rd or higher would be nice but i have a feeling it wont be that high.

 

[NYR Viper]

The Girardi for MSL trade makes A LOT more sense than a Callahan for MSL trade. They need defensive help.

Although a 2nd line of Filpulla-Callahan would be a very solid 2-way line.

Maybe TB feels Connolly is ready to help replace some of St Louis' production?

 

[TheTakedown]

If we're getting MSL for Callahan straight up, I have to imagine another GM would do better than a late 1st and a B prospect. Let's not act as if 3-4 more good years out of MSL is a guarantee. All it takes is one nagging injury and he could become a shell of himself. He's a fitness fanatic, but he's still 38 years old and his body will break down eventually.

It would be the typical Ranger's **** up... but I don't see MSL as being the "typical" late-career ranger as most others end up...

He's a heart and soul 40-50p winger. He's been a great Ranger. Nobody is diminishing that. He's also often injured, and wants to be paid like an impact player on a long term contract. Ryan Callahan is not an impact player most nights, not anymore. And those idiotic behind-the-back turnover passes he learned from Richards have been grinding on my nerves the last 3 seasons.

I still love Callahan, but he priced himself out of NY. He has every right to do so, but I just pray we're not the team that pays him.

Nobody is getting on Callahan for his play... with a caphit of $4.285

Everybody is getting on Callahan for his play when you factor he wants $7M for the same play.

This team has turned it around, is well in playoff position, not a rebuild situation at all.

THIS. In the beginning of the season I would say we needed a retool at most, since we have several players that were VERY strong in their roles (Nash, McD, Lundqvist, Girardi, Zucc, Brassard, D. Moore, etc).

Given that most of these guys have grasped this new system and are producing, I only see a few MINOR tweaks (such as MDZ for Klein) being made. This team is not the best, but they are far, far from the worst.

Doesn't MSL workout in CT in the Summer ?

Yes, with Brad Richards. Another piece of the speculation puzzle

Wasn't a lot of that talk earlier on during the team's struggles? I'd have to think that rolling these lines...

Kreider - Richards - St. Louis
Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brassard - Zuccarello

Would be scaring enough teams defensively to the point where being a bit undersized won't matter. The Blackhawks don't necessarily smash your face into the glass, bit they score a ton with their ridiculous depth.

Thank you. Wanted to state this myself.

 

[poeman]

<--- Please see avatar.

 

[LetterJ]

The story as to St Louis wanting out has some legs: http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi...le_for_steve_yzerman_the_view_from_tampa.html

Martin St. Louis snub spells trouble for Steve Yzerman: The view from Tampa
Leaving Martin St. Louis off Team Canada's roster will be trouble for Steve Yzerman.


Marty St. Louis has spent his entire hockey career being told he wasn’t good enough.

MOD

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I don't disagree with the beginning of this, but I think it's shortsighted. Regardless of team needs, the Ryan Callahan situation needs to be addressed. His contract expires this year, and his demands are ridiculous for the NYR. Either he had to be kept as an 'own rental' or moved. He wasn't returning any real 1C prospect, nor was a team with a lottery pick about to trade for him. If the possibility to get a 1C out of a grinder UFA, with Callahans numbers, and his supposed contract demands at the deadline existed every team would have 4 of them.

MSL isn't some weak push over. He goes to the tough areas and wins battles. So he isn't punishing. Callahan beats himself bloody bruising the opposition to the point he is ineffective offensively.

Stewart might be here less than MSL would be, one more year on his contract and probably too much for the 3rd line.

I get the argument that we need to fix other positions. I just don't see how Cally gets a return that upgrades center, LW or pmd. We seem to be getting offers in the range of 3rd line rw plus prospect. If that seguin type deal is out there, by all means jump on that one. But from what we've seen, MSL is our best offer.

You guys are focusing on the fact that I (and others) have said we need to fix other positions - and are then ignoring the second part, which is that it may take some time and additional steps to get there.

I'm not suggesting we can expect to get Barkov for Cally. What I AM suggesting is that we could get a 1st, 1-2 other assets and a conditional 1st if he re-signs with his new team. This is where the patience and long-term view comes into play.

Now you have more lottery tickets at finding the players you're missing in the draft - more chances to get the lucky hit on the next P. K. Subban or Claude Giroux. And you have more pieces to acquire similar players in subsequent deals in the future. Say Grigorenko does force his way out of Buffalo. Say a guy you think is a legit #1C prospect falls to #7-9 in the draft. If you've stockpiled young players, picks and prospects, THAT'S when you're in position to get those guys.

 

[NernieBichols]

I would think he would have to agree to any trade.

Thats not true. Just like with past cases. Its that the player will only waive his NMC for a trade to a certain team. He doesn't waive it until the deal is be finalized. He loses all leverage if he waived it before the trade is completed to the team he wants.

NVM. i see that I read your statement incorrectly. Took it as he would have to accept any trade once he waived his NMC

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The story as to St Louis wanting out has some legs: http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi...le_for_steve_yzerman_the_view_from_tampa.html

I think its ridiculous that St. Louis would throw a tantrum and demand a trade based off the Olympics.

 

[NYR Sting]

I think its ridiculous that St. Louis would throw a tantrum and demand a trade based off the Olympics.

Eh, it is also ridiculous for him to have been left off 2010 and initially off of 2014 Canadian squads. He clearly deserved to be a part of both. He's been one of the top 5-10 forwards in the league for about a decade now.

 

[BBKers]

Say we trade Callahan for MSL and a conditional pick pending him resigning in Tampa (if Boomers tweets are correct). Say we also trade Boyle/3rd/middle tier prospect for Steve Ott. And sign Girardi for a compromise for 5-6 years. We can also bring up depth guys like Powe and Asham for PO:s. An awfully deep lineup. Albeit small. But the 4th line would be hell to play against (maybe Dorsett/Stralman are traded as a package for a D?)

Would we then also trade for an offensive D (Dan Boyle is a Sather wet dream) and go all in? Cigar Man might be planning just this... Tampa won it once ya know

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($0.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.300m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Mats Zuccarello ($1.150m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Dominic Moore ($1.000m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Marc Staal ($3.975m)
Dan Girardi ($3.325m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
John Moore ($0.840m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Justin Falk ($0.975m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)

BURIED (Recalled for PO:s)
Arron Asham ($0.075m)
Darroll Powe ($0.142m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2013-14 crunched using simulation date of 2014-02-24)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; BONUSES: $650,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,368,919

 

[Jim Morrison]

I think its ridiculous that St. Louis would throw a tantrum and demand a trade based off the Olympics.

Of course it's not just that. But it could definitely have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[TheTakedown]

THANK you. It's not like we know what's on the table for Callahan in terms of "younger assets". We're all assuming that it's something like Stewart + Prospect + Pick. But in actuality if it's JUST Stewart, or Stewart and a pick - MSL is the MUCH better return, in my opinion.

People seem to be forgetting that teams know Callahan has essentially priced himself off of the Rangers.

Agreed. I would hardly call this asset management. What are the chances your homegrown guy, who seems like he wants to stick it out for the long haul, goes from carrying a 4.2M Cap to asking for $7M+ cap for 7 years?

That's alot to ask.

I think he wants out because Dubinsky is no longer here. Just my opinion.

 

[haveandare]

It sure is.

And if so, it is evidence that Sather has mishandled him as an asset.

Yeah. I always kinda wondered if leaking his contract demands was such a good idea. It seemed like it was aimed to Rangers fans to try to quell the inevitable anger with trading the captain. But it may have had a negative effect on the team's ability to move him.

THANK you. It's not like we know what's on the table for Callahan in terms of "younger assets". We're all assuming that it's something like Stewart + Prospect + Pick. But in actuality if it's JUST Stewart, or Stewart and a pick - MSL is the MUCH better return, in my opinion.

People seem to be forgetting that teams know Callahan has essentially priced himself off of the Rangers.

He's also priced himself off whatever team would get him as a rental. Teams that take rentals are "there" at least in their eyes, and they just need that extra piece. They're likely at the cap, or if they're not, they've put enough time into building a powerhouse under the cap that they certainly aren't going to go sign Callahan at 6.75 for 7. So, whoever gets him as a rental will almost certainly know that they have no chance of signing him. That could lower his value.

And yeah, if it's Stewart or MSL, I'd take MSL every single time. They both have contracts that expire next year. One guy is a top scorer and one guy isn't. One guy is a team first leader sort of character, and the other is well known for not being a gamer. The obsession with player age will have reached a new level once people prefer Stewart over MSL because of the age difference. If MSL is available here, it's because of a web of circumstances. He's better than Stewart and Callahan both by a large margin.

 

[NYR Viper]

With all of this talk of Callahan, what about the rest of the UFA's?

Girardi
Stralman
Moore
Boyle
Pouliot

Who is staying? Still no contracts finalized. Are they going to let all of hem walk to July 1st? Can they not multi-task?

 

[NernieBichols]

He's a grinder and he's on the 3rd line. I don't see what is so farfetched about it.

He's much more then that. But you've been steadfast on your opinion of him