HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread 92 Waiting on the DRAFT Edition

[GTA]

Very good question.

What do you think ‘futures’ will accomplish to help change (improve) the stats you cite?

Can’t it be argued that adding presents in exchange for futures is the BEST way to fundamentally improve the hockey team?

Barron -> Carrier

Dach -> 2C Upgrade
Savard -> 3D upgrade

Don’t you think these additions would have a significant impact?

Yes but there is a reason poor teams don’t cash in their chips. Will a 2C and 3D upgrade really move us from a bottom 5 team in terms of underlying numbers to a Stanley cup contender…?

 

[Scriptor]

There isn’t much available. Who are really those names anyway? Teams won’t throw that away for picks and prospects. I don’t have faith that we’ll be able to bring a sure fire centerman between 25-28 years. I think it will be a stop-gap.

Guhle + Beck/Kapanen/Evans for a 3rd line C stuck there on the depth chart when he has the talent to produce as a 2nd line C.

Anton Lundell in Florida, trapped in a 3rd line role there at 5M per season if Bennett is extended.

Not certain Zito, in a win-now position, wants to risk taking a step back and that he would be unwilling to extend Bennett, preferring to go with Lundell instead.

Need to improve a mature team in such a situation at another position than C (hence Guhle), while providing a replacement for the 3rd line C position on that team (hence one of Beck/Kapanen/Evans at their choice).

Overpayment from Montreal? It's relative...

The C-line in Montreal would become...

Suzuki - Lundell - Evans/Kapanen - Beck/Kapanen

...depending on the two Cs not chosen by Florida in the trade.

Caufield - Suzuki- Slafkovsky
Laine - Lundell - Demidov
Heineman - Evans/Kapanen - Anderson
F.Xhekaj - Beck/Kapanen - Gallagher

Hutson - Reinbacher
Matheson - Carrier
A. Xhekaj - Mailloux

Ilike the idea of having the Hanson twins (Arber and Florian) on the Habs as early as next season

.

 

[GTA]

We went from drafting 5th overall to fighting for the playoffs simply by adding a rookie defenceman and Laine for half a season. Clearly the team is going in the right direction and getting help this summer should be a priority.

If the team is going in the right direction then why are our underlying numbers so poor? Actually worse than last years underlying numbers.

Again - throughout this year we have gotten severely out chanced and riding a high shooting %. It seems like everyone is conflating a lot of luck with this big step forward. I don’t see it on most nights.

 

[Scriptor]

Interesting question...

The worst of our '25 1st Rd picks and a b-tier prospect like Mesar or Trudeau is probably the most of offer.

We don't really need the retention so I'm not sure I'd add much more to lower his cap hit... Though I could see KH pushing for Nash to take Price's LTIR contract as part of the deal.

I think that paying the 1st round pick for such an old player would include the retention on the contact (2M). Otherwise, I'd go with two second round picks ( MTL 2025 + PITT 2025) and Mesar or Trudeau (but I'd rather give up Mesar).

 

[themilosh]

Ilike the idea of having the Hanson twins (Arber and Florian) on the Habs as early as next season

.

I like the ideas more if BOTH Xjackeyes to create the most fearsome 4th line in the NHL.

 

[themilosh]

If the team is going in the right direction then why are our underlying numbers so poor? Actually worse than last years underlying numbers.

Again - throughout this year we have gotten severely out chanced and riding a high shooting %. It seems like everyone is conflating a lot of luck with this big step forward. I don’t see it on most nights.

this season is much different than previous.. There is a massive cluster in the middle of the standings. I suspect many teams' underlying numbers have taken a so-called step back, so the real question is what is the league average in the metrics you are studying, and are the Habs above or below the averages?

 

[vokiel]

There won't be many actual 2c fishes on the UFA market and the already small number will probably extended before July 1st...

I see trade as the only way to get a 2c, old or young. Hughes will probably hop for another reclamation project or just slot Newhook there next season.

There won't be a lot, which is why I think going dumpster diving makes more sense. It would mean you try Newhook/Beck/Kapanen at 2C yes, but you still get a better vet center than Dvorak.

 

[CHfan1]

If McDavid is making 20M, how much do you give to Hutson, who will need a new deal in the same summer? At least 10M? That's 30% of your cap for 2 players.

I'm not saying he's not worth it, but giving one player so much money is really making it hard to build a complete team around him. Depth is so important in hockey. Rougly 2/3 of the game will be played without him on the ice if he plays 20 mins a night.

With McDavid offered a max contract, 7 years, $20.8 million per season (with a $104 million salary cap).

Caufield (7.85) McDavid (20.8) Demidov (1.0)
Slafkovsky (7.6) Suzuki (7.88) Newhook (2.9)
Dach (3.0) Evans (2.85) Heineman (2.5)
Anderson (5.5) Beck (.853) Kapanen (.925)
Gallagher (6.5)

Guhle (5.55) Carrier (3.75)
Hutson (9.0) Reinbacher (.918)
Xhekaj (2.5) Struble (2.5)
Engstrom (.897)

Fowler (1.0)
Montembeault (3.15)

Total is $99.43 million, so there would be further room for upgrades if needed (possibly on defence). The season after Gallagher and Anderson are gone freeing up another $12 million (and the cap is supposedly going up another $9.5 million) freeing up space to extend Demidov and Reinbacher and adding Hage on a ELC.

While I fully expect Edmonton will extend McDavid this post also shows that Montreal is in good shape cap wise going forward and can add an elite player.

 

[sampollock]

I don't dare hope for McDavid.

smart
no way he comes here. just click bait

 

[le_sean]

If the team is going in the right direction then why are our underlying numbers so poor? Actually worse than last years underlying numbers.

Again - throughout this year we have gotten severely out chanced and riding a high shooting %. It seems like everyone is conflating a lot of luck with this big step forward. I don’t see it on most nights.

Do you think this team is worse than last year’s team?

 

[Benstheman]

Guhle + Beck/Kapanen/Evans for a 3rd line C stuck there on the depth chart when he has the talent to produce as a 2nd line C.

Anton Lundell in Florida, trapped in a 3rd line role there at 5M per season if Bennett is extended.

Not certain Zito, in a win-now position, wants to risk taking a step back and that he would be unwilling to extend Bennett, preferring to go with Lundell instead.

Need to improve a mature team in such a situation at another position than C (hence Guhle), while providing a replacement for the 3rd line C position on that team (hence one of Beck/Kapanen/Evans at their choice).

Overpayment from Montreal? It's relative...

The C-line in Montreal would become...

Suzuki - Lundell - Evans/Kapanen - Beck/Kapanen

...depending on the two Cs not chosen by Florida in the trade.

Caufield - Suzuki- Slafkovsky
Laine - Lundell - Demidov
Heineman - Evans/Kapanen - Anderson
F.Xhekaj - Beck/Kapanen - Gallagher

Hutson - Reinbacher
Matheson - Carrier
A. Xhekaj - Mailloux

Ilike the idea of having the Hanson twins (Arber and Florian) on the Habs as early as next season

.

Guhle is going nowhere.

 

[Saundies]

If the team is going in the right direction then why are our underlying numbers so poor? Actually worse than last years underlying numbers.

Again - throughout this year we have gotten severely out chanced and riding a high shooting %. It seems like everyone is conflating a lot of luck with this big step forward. I don’t see it on most nights.

Now do the last 20 games. Now do the last 10 games.

The number you're referring to to the entirety of the season. At the beginning of the year, we were dogshit in every capacity. We were straight garbage. That outlier stretch brings our stats way down.

The games before the 4 nations weren't great either.

When this team is bad, they're bad. When they're not, they're not. I'm not sure if you're really 'not seeing it' (aka actually watching games) but I don't see a bottom 5 in the league team who is pulling wins out of their asses. They're definitely not perfect but they battle and find ways. Shoring up the holes will help.

 

[DrBizz4r3]

With the info that Hugues gave in his pressers/interview, i shift my projections/zèle of draft to trades target. Hugues said they will round out the roster (target weakness like speed/toughness/…). He continues to say he will use pick/prospects as munitions. So which teams are in assets gathering with 2C available?

 

[Saundies]

With the info that Hugues gave in his pressers/interview, i shift my projections/zèle of draft to trades target. Hugues said they will round out the roster (target weakness like speed/toughness/…). He continues to say he will use pick/prospects as munitions. So which teams are in assets gathering with 2C available?

Have to think it's any of these teams, with a few (delusional) exceptions (aka Pittsburgh):

 

[ExReHabs]

With the info that Hugues gave in his pressers/interview, i shift my projections/zèle of draft to trades target. Hugues said they will round out the roster (target weakness like speed/toughness/…). He continues to say he will use pick/prospects as munitions. So which teams are in assets gathering with 2C available?

He was in on Cozens and Zegras

I think along those lines + knowing we need athleticism (strength, size AND/OR speed).

I thought Teravainen would be a shoo-in but he hasn’t played C in years. Maybe Hartman? CHI probably don’t want to weaken their team more.

 

[DrBizz4r3]

Yeah, i think so too. I wish for McTavish! I Hope they have different view of his value and i Hope they are open to extend their rebuild with thé underperformance of their offense and Young D. Beniers is a good option, but doesn’t cover our weakness (grit/toughness for me)

 

[General Fanager]

With the info that Hugues gave in his pressers/interview, i shift my projections/zèle of draft to trades target. Hugues said they will round out the roster (target weakness like speed/toughness/…). He continues to say he will use pick/prospects as munitions. So which teams are in assets gathering with 2C available?

Chandler Stephenson from The Kraken.

 

[Captain Mountain]

If the team is going in the right direction then why are our underlying numbers so poor? Actually worse than last years underlying numbers.

Again - throughout this year we have gotten severely out chanced and riding a high shooting %. It seems like everyone is conflating a lot of luck with this big step forward. I don’t see it on most nights.

I'm not sure you're interpreting the underlying numbers correctly there, or at least not drawing the conclusions you'd expect.

For one, you can see a lot of variance year over year in that area, especially in recent years when basically every team actually cares about that stuff.

But the real reason is that the bigger consideration is not the team in general, but specific players. Suzuki has developed into, at worst, a middle of the pack true 1C. Caufield has finally been healthy, effective and scoring in the same season. Slafkovsky has still run hot and cold, but you can see where he can put it together (and he's still trending well compared to other young, big prospects/NHLers). Hutson looks like Quinn Hughes at the same age (not Quinn Hughes light either). Struble has grown a lot this season. And the veteran depth has improved and been healthier.

The other thing is the team actually got answers, even if they weren't what they hoped. Like Dach can't be relied on as a 2C. Neither can Newhook. In season's past, Montreal couldn't answer enough questions to even properly identify where the needs actually were beyond be less bad. Now they can (its another top 6 C and an upgrade for the top-4 D, ideally top 2). That's not cheap or easy to fix, but its better than knowing you had maybe one good line and 1 young top-4 D.

You also can't expect linear improvement (in the standings or underlying numbers).

 

[Runner77]

the centre that KH gets will be between age of 25-28
will not be a old vet

KH will take what the market will bear. If the market offers a palatable 30-34 stopgap 2nd line centre, then he counts his blessings, takes it and moves on until a future time when better becomes available.

Setting too many conditions ahead of the market is the best way to handcuff oneself and end up empty handed.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Chandler Stephenson from The Kraken.

...that contract is terrible...

 

[ExReHabs]

Yes but there is a reason poor teams don’t cash in their chips. Will a 2C and 3D upgrade really move us from a bottom 5 team in terms of underlying numbers to a Stanley cup contender…?

Improving those two positions will provide a serious impact, yes.

Since Dec 1:

Montreal is 11th in the NHL, 18th in GA/gp, 19th in SA/gp, 11th in GF/gp, 20th in SF/gp, 15th in PP%, 12th in PK%. In terms of SAT (net shot attempts) Montreal is 22nd with -103.

At a glance it shows a team that has been a bit lucky in terms of goal scoring but otherwise not fraudulent. What's the problem?

A better defence will go a long, long way.

Demidov in, an upgrade over awful-Dach for 2C, push Newhook to the 3rd line, and a 2nd pairing D-man... it will surely help.

 

[ExReHabs]

If the team is going in the right direction then why are our underlying numbers so poor? Actually worse than last years underlying numbers.

Again - throughout this year we have gotten severely out chanced and riding a high shooting %. It seems like everyone is conflating a lot of luck with this big step forward. I don’t see it on most nights.

Can you cite some and show the context?

 

[SwiftyHab]

Setting too many conditions ahead of the market is the best way to handcuff oneself and end up empty handed.

Maybe KH enjoys being “Handcuffed and empty handed”

 

[Benstheman]

Improving those two positions will provide a serious impact, yes.

Since Dec 1:

Montreal is 11th in the NHL, 18th in GA/gp, 19th in SA/gp, 11th in GF/gp, 20th in SF/gp, 15th in PP%, 12th in PK%. In terms of SAT (net shot attempts) Montreal is 22nd with -103.

At a glance it shows a team that has been a bit lucky in terms of goal scoring but otherwise not fraudulent. What's the problem?

A better defence will go a long, long way.

Demidov in, an upgrade over awful-Dach for 2C, push Newhook to the 3rd line, and a 2nd pairing D-man... it will surely help.

If we add Demidov, Reinbacher, a 2C and a 2nd pair RHD??

Man that's crazy push and everything falls into place with those adds.

We competing for the top of the Division imo.

 

[ExReHabs]

If we add Demidov, Reinbacher, a 2C and a 2nd pair RHD??

Man that's crazy push and everything falls into place with those adds.

We competing for the top of the Division imo.

Exactly why even the more jaded of us are optimistic. Hughes is barely containing his smile in interviews.

At the low end: Demidov comes as a 6th forward, Reino as a 6th defenceman, and a 40-50pt two-way forward as the 2C to replace the terrible Dach, and a competent physical d-man to upgrade over Savard. I'd bet on that team finishing top3 in the division.