HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread 92 Waiting on the DRAFT Edition

[The Great Weal]

So then what happens if the prices for the real solutions are too expensive? Do we try for a cheaper unproven solution like Mercer/Zegras or do we stick with internal solutions like Dach/Newhook/Demidov @ C?

And why exactly will it cost us Demidov when recent 2Cs that have gotten traded didn't return anything near Demidov?

JT Miller cost Chytil and a 1st.
PLD cost Kuemper.
Bo Horvat cost Aatu Raty and a 1st.
Tomas Hertl cost David Edstrom and a 1st.

There's no reason not to be able to get one without giving up Demidov.

 

[The Great Weal]

I think you're right. Alsom @The Great Weal mentioned Karlsson as well and I agree with both you that he'd be an excellent stopgap. Good age, AAV and contract length. My dream scenario would be Lundell, but I don't see any chance of that happening either. Zito is too good of a GM.

The main issue with Karlsson is the NTC and we are likely on it but yes that'd be my main target outside of a guy like Tage Thompson. Hopefully, this playoff push makes others more willing to sign with us or not have us on their NTC. Signing a guy like Duchene and trading for W. Karlsson would improve our team ten fold.

I don't think Lundell is getting traded. Panthers will find a way, and if Bennett is working on staying with them, that means he will take a discount to make it feasible to keep Lundell.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

This board is losing his mind

Washed 38 year olds players or 3rd Cs to replace our Dog ass shit second line. We dont need a quick patch as center but long terms. Who cares if we have Hage , if he's good enough he will be pushing our future 2nd line center into the third line. Imagine building this team by thinking a #21 overall is a sure shot as our future top 6 center. By the time He'll be ready it could be in 2-3 years ATLEAST. Also if you are not ready to trade Hage for a potential second center for the 5-7 years you are completely out of the loop. Last time I checked Hage is 5 steps behind Demidov in terms of skills and potential.

We need to surround Demidov and Laine NOW not in 5 years.
Who cares about the first picks we are getting this year , both middle of the pack , If we drafted #3 id say that kid would be in our immediat future but thats not the case. If we are stuck in the middle of the pack we might as well spend the 100000 assets we acquired to finally get better.

Enough with The Dach Newhook Barron Experiments , Those are shit players if you want to compete in the playoffs.

You don't need a 2x1st picks + Demidov and Hage to get a second line center. We might as well throw 10m to Bennett of 14m to Marner. With Demidov 2x1st and Hage you could literally get Draisailt. Cope however you want . Nobody in the league gave that much assets for a second line player.

 

[Sorinth]

And why exactly will it cost us Demidov when recent 2Cs that have gotten traded didn't return anything near Demidov?

JT Miller cost Chytil and a 1st.
PLD cost Kuemper.
Bo Horvat cost Aatu Raty and a 1st.
Tomas Hertl cost David Edstrom and a 1st.

There's no reason not to be able to get one without giving up Demidov.

Because 25+ teams are in on any trade for a top-6 C and that makes the odds very tough. And let's not pretend like PLD wasn't a project player in the same vein as a Zegras. He's worked out so far in Washington after failing miserably in LA.

But why not answer the actual question, what do we do if the price for acquiring an established top-6 C is too high?

 

[DAChampion]

Enough with The Dach Newhook Barron Experiments , Those are shit players if you want to compete in the playoffs.

Dach was a legitimate experiment for a very good player that didn't work out due to injuries.

Even if Hughes acquires Bennett or ROR or Karlsson this summer, that too can fail if the acquired player suffers random injuries.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Give me Bennett the free asset. Leaves you with your best ammo for a big trade.

This is the way

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Dach was a legitimate experiment for a very good player that didn't work out due to injuries.

Even if Hughes acquires Bennett or ROR or Karlsson this summer, that too can fail if the acquired player suffers random injuries.

RoR really cmon now. Also I dont know why this board was so into Dach. Literally was made of glass before the trade and even the Hawks fans said he sucked at center and surprise , hes made of glass and suck at center. We wasted Romanov a good young stay at home def for a 3rd liner at best. It was not a good gamble. I wouldnt say no right now to Romanov compared of what we have.

 

[The Great Weal]

Because 25+ teams are in on any trade for a top-6 C and that makes the odds very tough. And let's not pretend like PLD wasn't a project player in the same vein as a Zegras. He's worked out so far in Washington after failing miserably in LA.

If all Kent Hughes can do is shrug his shoulders and say trades are hard, then he's not the GM for this team. We just went through that with MB. Yes, I didn't want PLD after his season in LA, but his track record as a 2C was still a million times better than Newhook/Dach/Mercer. Why aren't you mentioning Miller/Horvat/Hertl? Sure let's say Miller had zero interest in coming here, why not Horvat/Hertl? I'm not saying we should have traded for them given how we were bottom 5 teams at the time, I'm just pointing out that it is definitely not impossible and rare.

But why not answer the actual question, what do we do if the price for acquiring an established top-6 C is too high?

I'm not answering your question because it's nonsense. I just gave you some examples of teams getting top 6 Cs without giving up a Demidov. If Hughes can't get a 2nd line center using some combination of 2 mid 1sts, Mailloux, and Hage, then he's doing a shitty job.

In your hypothetical scenario where every team is demanding Demidov but are asking for B level prospects and 1sts elsewhere and nobody wants to come here, then why even bother having a GM? We should just roll over and accept that it's absolutely impossible to improve this team outside of drafting which is the scouts job.

 

[Runner77]

I also think it's premature to list Beck and Kapanen as guaranteed 3rd liners next year, I definitely wouldn't mind adding a 3C in addition (not Dvorak). I unfortunately don't think Dach has any value, and Newhook's value has definitely gone down since we got him.

No one guaranteed Beck/ Kapanen next season but they are at least in the pipeline and who knows if one of them will impress enough at camp. C2 remains a glaring need.

 

[Runner77]

RoR really cmon now. Also I dont know why this board was so into Dach. Literally was made of glass before the trade and even the Hawks fans said he sucked at center and surprise , hes made of glass and suck at center. We wasted Romanov a good young stay at home def for a 3rd liner at best. It was not a good gamble. I wouldnt say no right now to Romanov compared of what we have.

I was holding out a little hope for Dach until he re-injured the same knee. Now, I just want him to get back healthy and immediately thereafter, shipped out. Seen enough.

 

[Scriptor]

If all Kent Hughes can do is shrug his shoulders and say trades are hard, then he's not the GM for this team. We just went through that with MB. Yes, I didn't want PLD after his season in LA, but his track record as a 2C was still a million times better than Newhook/Dach/Mercer. Why aren't you mentioning Miller/Horvat/Hertl? Sure let's say Miller had zero interest in coming here, why not Horvat/Hertl? I'm not saying we should have traded for them given how we were bottom 5 teams at the time, I'm just pointing out that it is definitely not impossible and rare.

I'm not answering your question because it's nonsense. I just gave you some examples of teams getting top 6 Cs without giving up a Demidov. If Hughes can't get a 2nd line center using some combination of 2 mid 1sts, Mailloux, and Hage, then he's doing a shitty job.

In your hypothetical scenario where every team is demanding Demidov but are asking for B level prospects and 1sts elsewhere and nobody wants to come here, then why even bother having a GM? We should just roll over and accept that it's absolutely impossible to improve this team outside of drafting which is the scouts job.

Two mid firsts, Mailloux and Hage would be giving up four firsts without the prospects having lost their value as first rounders yet.

It's clearly too much a payment in a trade when you look at offer sheet costs, for example.

Guhle + a mid first rounder + a 2nd rounder would be plenty for a young 2C and not a C that is decrepit and at the end of his career.

 

[The Great Weal]

Two mid firsts, Mailloux and Hage would be giving up four firsts without the prospects having lost their value as first rounders yet.

It's clearly too much a payment in a trade when you look at offer sheet costs, for example.

Guhle + a mid first rounder + a 2nd rounder would be plenty for a young 2C and not a C that is decrepit and at the end of his career.

I said some combination, not all 4 assets. Obviously, it would depend on who based on this player's production history, age, health, and contract.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I was holding out a little hope for Dach until he re-injured the same knee. Now, I just want him to get back healthy and immediately thereafter, shipped out. Seen enough.

Well said , I think it's time to move on.

 

[HabbyGuy]

So then what happens if the prices for the real solutions are too expensive? Do we try for a cheaper unproven solution like Mercer/Zegras or do we stick with internal solutions like Dach/Newhook/Demidov @ C?

Much to the chagrin of many, I really have a gut feeling Zegras will be a hab next season. And to be honest, while I wasn't first keen on the idea, I have softened and wouldn't be upset if that's how it plays out. He seems to fit much of the criteria of the HUGO playbook and could theoretically be cost effective in regards to the price tag to acquire him.

Just saying don't be surprised if this is what ends up happening. He's uberly skilled with tons of upside, that I believe both Marty and Demidov could help foster.

A change of scenery for him could do a world of good.

 

[No More Subban]

I'm all in on 34 year old Matt Duchene. 2 years.

Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield
Demidov - Duchene - Laine
Newhook - Dach - Anderson (or Roy-Newhook-Anderson)
Heineman - Evans - Gallagher

I'm not sold on Bennett.

 

[Sorinth]

If all Kent Hughes can do is shrug his shoulders and say trades are hard, then he's not the GM for this team. We just went through that with MB. Yes, I didn't want PLD after his season in LA, but his track record as a 2C was still a million times better than Newhook/Dach/Mercer. Why aren't you mentioning Miller/Horvat/Hertl? Sure let's say Miller had zero interest in coming here, why not Horvat/Hertl? I'm not saying we should have traded for them given how we were bottom 5 teams at the time, I'm just pointing out that it is definitely not impossible and rare.

MB's problem wasn't because one summer he couldn't address a need, it was because he couldn't address a need in a decade of trying. The comparison is nonsense, you even admit that we shouldn't have traded for those players, timing matters and there are times that nobody worth it is available for a trade that makes sense. When the time frame is a decade that argument doesn't work, when it's a few months it's perfectly valid.

I'm not answering your question because it's nonsense. I just gave you some examples of teams getting top 6 Cs without giving up a Demidov. If Hughes can't get a 2nd line center using some combination of 2 mid 1sts, Mailloux, and Hage, then he's doing a shitty job.

In your hypothetical scenario where every team is demanding Demidov but are asking for B level prospects and 1sts elsewhere and nobody wants to come here, then why even bother having a GM? We should just roll over and accept that it's absolutely impossible to improve this team outside of drafting which is the scouts job.

It's your hypothetical that every team is demanding Demidov not mine. My argument is that there isn't a reasonable trade to make for a top-6 C every second of every day. So we have to have a plan B if we can't acquire an established top-6 C this summer. It's childish to pretend like if it doesn't happen this summer Hughes is doing a terrible job.

 

[Rob Sense]

did i miss something? Did we go from tank to one-player away from the finals in one year??? Do we even make the playoffs this year???? FFS...anyone giving more than a 2nd round pick and a prospect for a center is delusional. We are 3-4 years away minimum from being the top 4 and by then we will know if our multiple center prospects have what it takes to play the position. Then AND ONLY THEN should we be trading even 2 first round picks for a veteran 2C.

 

[Ozmodiar]

did i miss something? Did we go from tank to one-player away from the finals in one year??? Do we even make the playoffs this year???? FFS...anyone giving more than a 2nd round pick and a prospect for a center is delusional. We are 3-4 years away minimum from being the top 4 and by then we will know if our multiple center prospects have what it takes to play the position. Then AND ONLY THEN should we be trading even 2 first round picks for a veteran 2C.

They aren’t 4 years away.

Since the beginning of December - around Laine’s return and Hutson to PP1 - they have the 10th most points in the league. Ahead of the Leafs. Tied with the Panthers. 1 point behind the LVGK.

They’re going to add a 2C and a young phenom. The latter is the consensus top prospect not yet in the NHL. Also add a health Guhle.

If they pay 2 1st rounders, I agree it shouldn’t be for a “bridge” type of player to wait for Hage.

However, they’re definitely at the stage where they’re gonna fill perceives holes in the roster to compete. It will allow them to test and adjust year to year.

Imagine waiting 4 years to make a big move, then a few more to make adjustments. Suzuki would be in his 30’s. Hughes said he would not wait while is Suzuki leading the charge.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

did i miss something? Did we go from tank to one-player away from the finals in one year??? Do we even make the playoffs this year???? FFS...anyone giving more than a 2nd round pick and a prospect for a center is delusional. We are 3-4 years away minimum from being the top 4 and by then we will know if our multiple center prospects have what it takes to play the position. Then AND ONLY THEN should we be trading even 2 first round picks for a veteran 2C.

People who think Hughes will sell the farm for a vet C are setting themselves up for disappointment.

On the other hand, I think it will take less than 4 seasons for this team to become dominant. The progress done so far has been tremendous. 55 to 85+ in three seasons, after losing their two MVPs and the team's best defensive center.

Hutson has changed our timeline. Demidov might accelerate it even more. A bunch of other kids coming in too. Might be some bumps there, but the core keeps growing and already has added experience to it.

 

[themilosh]

They aren’t 4 years away.

Since the beginning of December - around Laine’s return and Hutson to PP1 - they have the 10th most points in the league. Ahead of the Leafs. Tied with the Panthers. 1 point behind the LVGK.

They’re going to add a 2C and a young phenom. The latter is the consensus top prospect not yet in the NHL. Also add a health Guhle.

If they pay 2 1st rounders, I agree it shouldn’t be for a “bridge” type of player to wait for Hage.

However, they’re definitely at the stage where they’re gonna fill perceives holes in the roster to compete. It will allow them to test and adjust year to year.

Imagine waiting 4 years to make a big move, then a few more to make adjustments. Suzuki would be in his 30’s. Hughes said he would not wait while is Suzuki leading the charge.

The crazies in here thinking a rebuild takes 8 years is insane.

We're in year 4. It's over starting next year, and with the cap going up, anything less than addressing 2C and 1RHD fir immediate effect is grand larceny by management.. we are going to chalkenge for the Cup starting next year, and for the following 10 years.

Anything short of this is pathetic.

 

[Sorinth]

did i miss something? Did we go from tank to one-player away from the finals in one year??? Do we even make the playoffs this year???? FFS...anyone giving more than a 2nd round pick and a prospect for a center is delusional. We are 3-4 years away minimum from being the top 4 and by then we will know if our multiple center prospects have what it takes to play the position. Then AND ONLY THEN should we be trading even 2 first round picks for a veteran 2C.

I mean we did add a guy who is currently 6th all time in assists by a rookie defenceman and seems like a lock to get to at least 3rd all time. Plus we have Demidov coming in who I'm not sure where he lands as a KHL rookie but it's going to be high up. We've also been a top-10 team since early December so it's not exactly crazy to think we are very close to being a contender, especially if we can add a star this offseason.

 

[DAChampion]

did i miss something? Did we go from tank to one-player away from the finals in one year??? Do we even make the playoffs this year???? FFS...anyone giving more than a 2nd round pick and a prospect for a center is delusional. We are 3-4 years away minimum from being the top 4 and by then we will know if our multiple center prospects have what it takes to play the position. Then AND ONLY THEN should we be trading even 2 first round picks for a veteran 2C.

Do you want Hughes to wait until Suzuki and Caulfield are on the last years of their discount contracts?

 

[vokiel]

I feel like we will need to trade or sign a 2C. Any player drafted this year will take 2-3 years to be our 2C.

We're not drafting top 5, so any player we draft this year, in a weak draft, has lower or equal chances to become 2C than Hage, Beck and Kapanen.

 

[Sorinth]

Much to the chagrin of many, I really have a gut feeling Zegras will be a hab next season. And to be honest, while I wasn't first keen on the idea, I have softened and wouldn't be upset if that's how it plays out. He seems to fit much of the criteria of the HUGO playbook and could theoretically be cost effective in regards to the price tag to acquire him.

Just saying don't be surprised if this is what ends up happening. He's uberly skilled with tons of upside that both Marty and I believe Demidov could help foster.

A change of scenery for him could do a world of good.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised by any move. Hughes has said and shown that he's always looking to make a splash. And yeah even with his struggles Zegras is splashy.

That said there's also a lot against us going after Zegras, to me he seems more like a plan D or later. I wouldn't hate it but I definitely would be cautious about it working out.

 

[vokiel]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised by any move. Hughes has said and shown that he's always looking to make a splash. And yeah even with his struggles Zegras is splashy.

That said there's also a lot against us going after Zegras, to me he seems more like a plan D or later. I wouldn't hate it but I definitely would be cautious about it working out.

Seriously if we get Zegras and he plays with Dach and Reinbacher, Ima gonna start some "Knights who say Knee" Photoshop campaign.

Way too many knee issues on one roster.