HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #89: 2024-2025 season part II

[SannywithoutCompy]

Why are we gaslighting ourselves into believing Dvorak is a useful player? You know we watch him night after night right?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Was looking at Detroit prospects to see what the habs could get a long with a pick for trading Savard and even taking Holl back and there's some nice pieces like ASP, Danielson, but there's not much beyond that

Brady Cleveland maybe to literally let him play somewhere and Hopefully figure it out, but yeah...

I think they've tried to go for it too soon, but a guy like Larkin can't really be on a bad team for another year, or two.

 

[ReHabs]

Why are we gaslighting ourselves into believing Dvorak is a useful player? You know we watch him night after night right?

A team that wants to improve their bottom6 to get an edge wouldn't mind throwing out a 3rd round pick for Dvorak.

If I had a contender, I'd be happy to see a depth C acquired for a 3rd round pick. Even a 2nd. It might make the difference between winning and losing -- Cs and Ds are priceless in the playoffs.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Was looking at Detroit prospects to see what the habs could get a long with a pick for trading Savard and even taking Holl back and there's some nice pieces like ASP, Danielson, but there's not much beyond that

Brady Cleveland maybe to literally let him play somewhere and Hopefully figure it out, but yeah...

I think they've tried to go for it too soon, but a guy like Larkin can't really be on a bad team for another year, or two.

I think they view Danielson and ASP as untouchable. I'd love Buchelnikov but I think he's the same deal.

As for Cleveland, he's got all the offensive touch of Hal Gill with two broken wrists. I'd love to get Wallinder though.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why are we gaslighting ourselves into believing Dvorak is a useful player? You know we watch him night after night right?

I have no idea what the return for Dvorak will be but make no mistake, teams are going to call to add him. Even if it's as a depth guy sitting and watching games. He's very good at faceoffs and that is not something to brush under the rug.

Look around the NHL... there is crappy bottom 6 depth all over the place.

Dvorak is not a "teams will have zero interest" type narrative. The biggest hurdle is his cap hit because if teams add him, he's the 3rd piece added type move.

I think they view Danielson and ASP as untouchable. I'd love Buchelnikov but I think he's the same deal.

As for Cleveland, he's got all the offensive touch of Hal Gill with two broken wrists. I'd love to get Wallinder though.

Danielson is their Kotkaniemi pick. Holding on hope! Every fan base does this... not just the Habs. At this point in time, Danielson does not have more value than Beck IMO.

 

[Kosseca]

People say this all the time, it's not showcasing. GMs know what he is and no singular GM is watching Dvorak and seeing how he can help them in offensive situations.

You are right that they are not showcasing him. no need for that, but you dont devalue an asset by removing ice time or diminisingh their role.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Two guys to watch out for is Evans and Anderson. No offense to Savard, Armia, and Dvorak but I would not expect much back. Even if we get a 2nd for one of them, that is your typical 3rd rounder in a normal draft. Maybe we target 2026 and 2027 picks which I like as a strategy and I think Gorton/Hughes will agree.

Evans is someone many teams would love to add and they want to extend (like Lehkonen). He's going to get a lot of phone calls and my hunch says Gorton/Hughes are delaying the extension because they want to see the offers at the TDL first.

Anderson with 50% retention? I think this would get a lot of interest. He's shown very good ability now that he is used correctly in a PK and 3rd line role.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I have no idea what the return for Dvorak will be but make no mistake, teams are going to call to add him. Even if it's as a depth guy sitting and watching games. He's very good at faceoffs and that is not something to brush under the rug.

Look around the NHL... there is crappy bottom 6 depth all over the place.

Dvorak is not a "teams will have zero interest" type narrative. The biggest hurdle is his cap hit because if teams add him, he's the 3rd piece added type move.



Danielson is their Kotkaniemi pick. Holding on hope! Every fan base does this... not just the Habs. At this point in time, Danielson does not have more value than Beck IMO.

Danielson is largely a gamble on tools and two way play, which has been their drafting MO for forwards in the 1st since 2022. It's paying off great for Kasper right now (who I actually had above Slaf pre-draft), MBN looks like a gamer too, but Danielson is definitely getting there more slowly (I feel they reached on him quite a bit).

As for Dvorak he wins faceoffs, but his fabled two-way play is only accurate in that he's equally bad offensively and defensively. Maybe with retention he gets a 5th or something, which I'd take.

 

[CHfan1]

I got no issues if he's used to win faceoffs and play defensively. But Marty never punishes him for egregious turnovers that get other players benched. He then will use him on the PP, on 6 on 5s and religiously in OT periods. It's enough already. He f***ing blows offensively, stop using him like he's more than a bit player.

The only reason that Dvorak plays in OT or on 6 on 5’s is because he wins face-offs. When the face off is on the strong side for a left shot centre Dvorak gets sent out (if it’s on the other side of the ice Evans gets sent out to take the face off). They don’t have another left shot centre who can win faceoffs. We saw this in OT against New Jersey where he took 3 face offs and then got off the ice (he played 3 shifts that OT for a total of 23 seconds).

They have to move on from Dvorak but they also have to address another left shot centre who can win faceoffs in the off-season.

 

[Benstheman]

Was looking at Detroit prospects to see what the habs could get a long with a pick for trading Savard and even taking Holl back and there's some nice pieces like ASP, Danielson, but there's not much beyond that

Brady Cleveland maybe to literally let him play somewhere and Hopefully figure it out, but yeah...

I think they've tried to go for it too soon, but a guy like Larkin can't really be on a bad team for another year, or two.

Savard won't get you more than a 3rd with retention. He became way too slow.

Two guys to watch out for is Evans and Anderson. No offense to Savard, Armia, and Dvorak but I would not expect much back. Even if we get a 2nd for one of them, that is your typical 3rd rounder in a normal draft. Maybe we target 2026 and 2027 picks which I like as a strategy and I think Gorton/Hughes will agree.

Evans is someone many teams would love to add and they want to extend (like Lehkonen). He's going to get a lot of phone calls and my hunch says Gorton/Hughes are delaying the extension because they want to see the offers at the TDL first.

Anderson with 50% retention? I think this would get a lot of interest. He's shown very good ability now that he is used correctly in a PK and 3rd line role.

Evans + Anderson (2M$ retained) for Nemec. Go go go.

Armia can get you a mid/late 2nd.

Savard and Dvorak won't get you more than 3rd or 4th round picks if not retained.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The only reason that Dvorak plays in OT or on 6 on 5’s is because he wins face-offs. When the face off is on the strong side for a left shot centre Dvorak gets sent out (if it’s on the other side of the ice Evans gets sent out to take the face off). They don’t have another left shot centre who can win faceoffs. We saw this in OT against New Jersey where he took 3 face offs and then got off the ice (he played 3 shifts that OT for a total of 23 seconds).

They have to move on from Dvorak but they also have to address another left shot centre who can win faceoffs in the off-season.

I said it before and will say it again... Gourde would be a good guy to add in our bottom 6 as a stop gap. Especially if both Evans and Dvorak are gone. No way we are going to put trust into Newhook as a full time center and Beck as the 4C. Habs management are not the types to "pencil" in solutions like that before they earn it.

Gourde is still a great skater and his takeaways/60 is top notch. A big area that is overlooked. Faceoffs are OK

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Two guys to watch out for is Evans and Anderson. No offense to Savard, Armia, and Dvorak but I would not expect much back. Even if we get a 2nd for one of them, that is your typical 3rd rounder in a normal draft. Maybe we target 2026 and 2027 picks which I like as a strategy and I think Gorton/Hughes will agree.

Evans is someone many teams would love to add and they want to extend (like Lehkonen). He's going to get a lot of phone calls and my hunch says Gorton/Hughes are delaying the extension because they want to see the offers at the TDL first.

Anderson with 50% retention? I think this would get a lot of interest. He's shown very good ability now that he is used correctly in a PK and 3rd line role.

I think you may be underestimating what Armia with retention would get back. He's a dream bottom 6er for a playoff team. Good on the PK, puck possession monster, can create his own offense (occasionally).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Savard won't get you more than a 3rd with retention. He became way too slow.


Evans + Anderson (2M$ retained) for Nemec. Go go go.

We would need to take back a contract dump. I think the Devils would be over the cap? Not sure

I think you may be underestimating what Armia with retention would get back. He's a dream bottom 6er for a playoff team. Good on the PK, puck possession monster, can create his own offense (occasionally).

I would have Armia ahead of Savard and Dvorak yes.... in terms of better value. What puzzles me in at this TDL is the depth of this draft and I do respect Bob's statement where there is a significant drop at 20. Even if you get a late 1st or two 2nd's for Armia, we are not really getting that much. Unless we can get the 2026 picks.

I'm not real excited at bringing in more B+ prospects and 2nd rounders. Hopefully we can bring in some 2026 and 2027 picks. Diversify our draft power in future drafts is something I would value a lot.

 

[ReHabs]

If Hughes doesn't f*** it up again and manages to offload Anderson he will be forgiven for not offloading Anderson the first time he had a chance.

Rising cap = our hopeless players might have depth roles elsewhere. Though, not likely Gallagher.

 

[Benstheman]

We would need to take back a contract dump. I think the Devils would be over the cap? Not sure

Probably Haula or Tatar.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

If Hughes doesn't f*** it up again and manages to offload Anderson he will be forgiven for not offloading Anderson the first time he had a chance.

Rising cap = our hopeless players might have depth roles elsewhere. Though, not likely Gallagher.

Gallagher costs 4x1.75 on a buyout, in my mind that's an extremely easy cost to justify, especially since he has a NMC and can't be sent down.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Probably Haula or Tatar.

Probably Haula and I don't see us having a problem with that.

Evans (with extension) and Anderson (50% retention) would have lots of value for a team like the Devils. It's exactly the type of players they are after. How aggressive will they be?

Gallagher costs 4x1.75 on a buyout, in my mind that's an extremely easy cost to justify, especially since he has a NMC and can't be sent down.

Only if we have plans to add a big contract. Otherwise, it makes no sense. The right time to buy him out might be after next year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Hughes doesn't f*** it up again and manages to offload Anderson he will be forgiven for not offloading Anderson the first time he had a chance.

Rising cap = our hopeless players might have depth roles elsewhere. Though, not likely Gallagher.

Well, Anderson's value will only increase with a higher cap so maybe Hughes was right. We can be frustrated with how Anderson was overpaid but this is a big boy that skates well and chips in some goals. Ups his game in the playoffs. We should not be desperately wanting to move this out for anything we are offered IMO.

I'm on Hughes side on this one. And he would not be a pure rental either. If we offer some retention, teams are going to get very aggressive to add Anderson. Especially with a higher cap coming and they can make a lot more moves.

Size, Skating, and physical players are a premium in the NHL. Look at the Caps and their turnaround. Two guys fans devalued like Dubois and Chychrun and look at how they helped that roster.

 

[ReHabs]

Gallagher costs 4x1.75 on a buyout, in my mind that's an extremely easy cost to justify, especially since he has a NMC and can't be sent down.

The question of buyouts is always if we have a suitable replacement. I think with all the turnover coming up next summer the Habs will make sure we have enough good vets + characters. Gallagher might survive the cull just due to that.

 

[Benstheman]

Probably Haula and I don't see us having a problem with that.

Evans (with extension) and Anderson (50% retention) would have lots of value for a team like the Devils. It's exactly the type of players they are after. How aggressive will they be?



Only if we have plans to add a big contract. Otherwise, it makes no sense. The right time to buy him out might be after next year.

NJ problem right now is grit and depth up front. That's their only issue right now.

With Evans and Anderson, you get 2/3 of a 3rd line. They would probably play with Palat on the 3rd line and on the PK. NJ wouldn't need to play Hischier and Bratt on the PK anymore.

 

[ReHabs]

Well, Anderson's value will only increase with a higher cap so maybe Hughes was right. We can be frustrated with how Anderson was overpaid but this is a big boy that skates well and chips in some goals. Ups his game in the playoffs. We should not be desperately wanting to move this out for anything we are offered IMO.

I'm on Hughes side on this one. And he would not be a pure rental either. If we offer some retention, teams are going to get very aggressive to add Anderson. Especially with a higher cap coming and they can make a lot more moves.

That was then. Today yeah, he’s more valuable to us and if we go into the playoffs he’s a good player to have in the bottom6.

I hope some team pays up big for him this trade deadline. Two 1sts, something like that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

NJ problem right now is grit and depth up front. That's their only issue right now.

With Evans and Anderson, you get 2/3 of a 3rd line. They would probably play with Palat on the 3rd line and on the PK. NJ wouldn't need to play Hischier and Bratt on the PK anymore.

I actually don't see any other team being able to offer two pieces that fit them so well.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

The question of buyouts is always if we have a suitable replacement. I think with all the turnover coming up next summer the Habs will make sure we have enough good vets + characters. Gallagher might survive the cull just due to that.

I think we also have to look at who on forward should realistically be starting with the big team next year.

Caufield-Suzuki-Slaf
Laine-Dach-Demidov
Heineman-Newhook-Anderson
Kapanen-Beck-Roy
Evans? Armia? Gallagher? Davidson? Tuch?

I think Gallagher's buyout would be contingent on whether or not we trade some guys like Armia or Evans (or even Anderson). I believe we have the young pieces that should be able to step in to those roles, but it's hard to predict.

 

[Deebs]

Look at the contenders and what they have in their bottom 6. There is a lot of suck ass depth bud. Contenders will knock on the Dvorak door no doubt! We should not expect much but lets not overlook what is actually happening in the NHL right now with lack of good depth in the bottom 6 for contenders.

Listen bud lol, nobody is expecting much in return for Dvo but most understand he's not part of our future so we get what we get and move on.

 

[malcb33]

The question of buyouts is always if we have a suitable replacement. I think with all the turnover coming up next summer the Habs will make sure we have enough good vets + characters. Gallagher might survive the cull just due to that.

I think he will survive the 2025-26 season, but after that, it's going to get interesting