HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Supersonic]

If we can pull the trigger on Laine without sacrificing much of our future, it just makes so much sense.

It opens our competitive window, right now. If the price is right and we don't give up much in the way of real futures, it also allows us to have a steady pipeline for the future.

As long as Anderson is going back the other way, I’m all for it.

 

[Habby4Life]

More that you sign Necas to his contract now (before he signed the deal with the canes) and he has 6 years left compared to Laine in 2 years who likely wants 7, or 8.

So far you've done nothing to prove the positive for Laine outweighs the negative.

All you've proven is that you're either not smart, or intentionally twist things to try and make a point you think you can counter, but actually can't.


Perron has produced equal to, or better than Laine for a while.

Yeah, a 26 yr old who has scored 40+ goals before, prior to last was a PPG before he got hurt and has 388pts in 480 games played, no positive there at all.

If we can pull the trigger on Laine without sacrificing much of our future, it just makes so much sense.

It opens our competitive window, right now. If the price is right and we don't give up much in the way of real futures, it also allows us to have a steady pipeline for the future.

and there is a very good chance he does well in a hab uniform. Isn’t that a great problem to have in two years.

 

[Habby4Life]

Dach -- recovered, healthy, ready to roll, next year's the year, two way BEAST
Laine -- injury prone, sickly, possibly has bad vibes?


Sprong and Perron might've been good 'finishing' players for a roster that wants to get over the hump. We're nowhere close to the hump and have an incomplete roster.


No matter how you try to spin it, you actually think we're goofy enough to agree that Necas on a big money long-term commitment sight-unseen is a safer bet than to have Laine on a two-year deal and see what he has. And you think Laine at 28 potentially wanting a long-term deal is problematic but you want to keep cap space open to sign a 28 year old big money UFA to a long-term deal.

These are your arguments, not mine.

I don't need to prove the positive for Laine, we've been having this discussion for many weeks and I can count at least 15 different users here have made the case. Your argument that Laine's potential success is a negative factor because it would mean he needs to be re-signed is truly breathtaking.

can you imagine, we should not trade for a guy because he might do well and want to re-sign with the habs. The HORROR!!

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

As I said a few days ago, I'm not a huge fan of Laine per se, but he would at least make the early season more interesting. If we can get him without giving up too much, it's certainly worth a try.

 

[Andy]

Perron has produced equal to, or better than Laine for a while.

Perron is 10 years older than Laine and is at the end of his career. The comparison is silly that I dont even feel like addressing it more than that.

 

[OldCraig71]

Is he pure Laine?

 

[Habby4Life]

I agree, I've been impressed with HuGo's decision making so far.

After years of seeing things run under Bergevin's leadership. My expectations under this new group were fairly low. After seeing their early changes. I thought 5 years to make the playoffs was reasonable.

I think we're doing great so far. But now with the cap space and assets we have available. I think it's time to use those assets to kick it up a notch. To make the thought of making the playoffs in year 5 not just reasonable, but a forgone conclusion.

If they do nothing and stay the course this year we will be bottom 5.

So next summer is when KH is supposed to add a veteran presence to the D (Savard gone), and a top 6, solidify the 3rd line etc, or am I to assume this will just happen on its own via all the prospects we have, lol. Shit they will have a ton of rookies in the lineup.

If he doesn’t go out and use the assets via trade and use FA to acquire said players they won’t make the playoffs in yr 5 either.

You have to supplement the young core with NHL proven guys who produce.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Dach -- recovered, healthy, ready to roll, next year's the year, two way BEAST
Laine -- injury prone, sickly, possibly has bad vibes?


Sprong and Perron might've been good 'finishing' players for a roster that wants to get over the hump. We're nowhere close to the hump and have an incomplete roster.


No matter how you try to spin it, you actually think we're goofy enough to agree that Necas on a big money long-term commitment sight-unseen is a safer bet than to have Laine on a two-year deal and see what he has. And you think Laine at 28 potentially wanting a long-term deal is problematic but you want to keep cap space open to sign a 28 year old big money UFA to a long-term deal.

These are your arguments, not mine.

I don't need to prove the positive for Laine, we've been having this discussion for many weeks and I can count at least 15 different users here have made the case. Your argument that Laine's potential success is a negative factor because it would mean he needs to be re-signed is truly breathtaking.

At an increased caphit, likely over 10.

What I'm hoping for, but pretty much have no faith in happening is the Habs grab Draisaitl, potentially Rantanen, but health might be an issue there, or even Marner.

Yes, Marner isn't the best when the chips are down, but there have been others who seemed to disappear in the playoffs and later broke that.

Furthermore given what Laine has done, he's not going to bring more than his current contract and would likely want more despite not proving he's worth it.

 

[Captain Mountain]

If they do nothing and stay the course this year we will be bottom 5.

So next summer is when KH is supposed to add a veteran presence to the D (Savard gone), and a top 6, solidify the 3rd line etc, or am I to assume this will just happen on its own via all the prospects we have, lol. Shit they will have a ton of rookies in the lineup.

If he doesn’t go out and use the assets and go hard in FA to acquire said players they won’t make the playoffs in yr 5 either.

You have to supplement the young core with NHL proven guys who produce.

As long as the young core demonstrates they can be a competitive core (or that they can be reasonably projected to do so) so you can identify the actual pieces you need. Aggressively supplementing a young core before that is the number 1 reason rebuilds fall off the rails.

This is to say nothing of successful rebuilds that didn't really pursue vets or trades.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Yeah, a 26 yr old who has scored 40+ goals before, prior to last was a PPG before he got hurt and has 388pts in 480 games played, no positive there at all.

and there is a very good chance he does well in a hab uniform. Isn’t that a great problem to have in two years.

He's scored 40 goals once and that was years ago. He has gotten 30, or more in 5 years. Just ignore that.

 

[Vachon23]

He's scored 40 goals once and that was years ago. He has gotten 30, or more in 5 years. Just ignore that.

No one in our team have attempts that level though. Only Suzuki and Gallagher have scored 30 goals once in there career. He could possibly be our best goal scorer if he arrived 100 % healthy mentally

 

[Saundies]

If we can pull the trigger on Laine without sacrificing much of our future, it just makes so much sense.

It opens our competitive window, right now. If the price is right and we don't give up much in the way of real futures, it also allows us to have a steady pipeline for the future.

It's probably not a popular take because people talk about the salary cap around here like it's their own money, but I would even take him with no retention. We're in a position to. We're not going to win cups or looking to win cups in the next two years he's here and we have the space to fit him under with Price going on the LTIR and money coming off the books next year. It makes the deal more enticing for Columbus, who have already acknowledged that it's a huge barrier to deal him.

Plus I think we can end up giving up like a Harris + to do that deal as opposed to getting them to retain, which would probably have to up our offer a good amount.

 

[Habby4Life]

As long as the young core demonstrates they can be a competitive core (or that they can be reasonably projected to do so) so you can identify the actual pieces you need. Aggressively supplementing a young core before that is the number 1 reason rebuilds fall off the rails.

This is to say nothing of successful rebuilds that didn't really pursue vets or trades.

For the most part I agree.

But is obvious the need addition scoring, even KH has said that. They have a ton of holes in this lineup.

IMO, its unreasonable to think prospects will fill all of them and make the playoffs in yr 5.

 

[junyab]

Zero downside risk they said:

McGinn nets equalizer | Carolina Hurricanes

CAR@CBJ: McGinn lays out to put home rebound

www.nhl.com

 

[Andy]

He's scored 40 goals once and that was years ago. He has gotten 30, or more in 5 years. Just ignore that.

In seasons where he's played more than 70 games, he's scored 30 or more.

He also has

28 in 68 4 years ago
26 in 56 3 years ago
22 in 55 2 years ago

Stop being disingenuous. The last hab who had a better scoring rate was pacioretty.

 

[Habby4Life]

He's scored 40 goals once and that was years ago. He has gotten 30, or more in 5 years. Just ignore that.

He got 22 and 26 two seasons prior to that in 50 some odd games. Not to mention he was a PPG guy in those two seasons. Yeah, no chance he helps the habs, lol.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Perron is 10 years older than Laine and is at the end of his career. The comparison is silly that I dont even feel like addressing it more than that.

He's still produced the same and would cost less caphit wise, unless Laine is retained at 50%, or even with a 3rd party.

You just don't want to discuss it because it would show how unimpressive Laine has been and everyone just wants him because they remember him from his rookie season and not how he hasn't been that good since his 2nd season.

No one in our team have attempts that level though. Only Suzuki and Gallagher have scored 30 goals once in there career. He could possibly be our best goal scorer if he arrived 100 % healthy mentally

Mentally and then physically stay healthy, he could very well be. He's got a wicked shot and some nice hands.

He's got some things that are definitely positive, but there's too much on the other side to make it seem like not the best option.

If the Habs are able to get him retained at 50% and send back Anderson, then let's go. Do it right now. Or even the retention to Anderson's cap hit, so it's essentially Anderson (+) for Laine swap cap hit wise for the Habs, then let's go.

 

[sampollock]

What if Laine exceeds everyone expectations, isn’t that a great problem to have in two years. Its such a low risk with a massive upside.

that's been my point.
if Laine scores 20/30 goals , is that not a big help for the habs?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

In seasons where he's played more than 70 games, he's scored 30 or more.

He also has

28 in 68 4 years ago
26 in 56 3 years ago
22 in 55 2 years ago

Stop being disingenuous. The last hab who had a better scoring rate was pacioretty.

But he’s coming off shoulder surgery. That is a real risk especially for a player who may be here short term.

I think it’s valid to say that we should spend more with the cap space we have. That’s fine. But I also don’t think we should make a move for the sake of it.

Laine is an all world talent. I don’t think many people would disagree. But the fact is that his shoulder got mangled and we just saw how it affected our best sniper. If they want significant assets from us, I d say move on. With us taking the full contract that should be enough for Columbus. If it’s not a pure dump though… I think we should walk away.

That doesn’t mean I think we can’t make a move or whatever. But I’d rather pony up more assets to get something more tangible and healthy.

It’s all in what you give up. McGroarty for example… trade for him? Okay. They want Barron? I wouldn’t give him up. If they want Harris? Sure. It’s all on the return.

One more point here: Hugo has just convinced his players to take cap friendly deals to stay with us. How does it look if they bring in an overpriced player? How well is that going to sit with everyone?

 

[vokiel]

Sprong? Perron?

Really? What's the point. You'd probably have equal likelihood that one of Anderson, Dvorak, Gallagher, or Armia bounces back.

Perron is with the Sens, so we'll see his talent plenty this season.

 

[Captain Mountain]

For the most part I agree.

But is obvious the need addition scoring, even KH has said that. They have a ton of holes in this lineup.

IMO, its unreasonable to think prospects will fill all of them and make the playoffs in yr 5.

I'd quibble on your definition of years, but my point is that you don't just acquire scoring. Is the issue a net front presence on the PP? A 5v5 shooter? A play driver?

Its not just that Montreal needs scoring. For example, Ottawa needed scoring 2 years ago and paid big for DeBrincat. It turns out the fit was not that great because adding goals from a stat sheet doesn't automatically improve a team.

Montreal needs to see if guys can stay healthy and what roles they can hold down. Talking just forwards - Dach for instance isn't a big shooter, but is he a 2nd line center? a top-6 RWer? There are questions about Newhook and Roy too. Will Demidov be a winger or will he be transitioned at center (plus how good can he be and how quickly?)

In the roughly two and half years Hughes and Gorton have been in charge of Montreal, there has been exactly one effective 5v5 top-6 line combination that has played together for a reasonable period of time: Caufield-Suzuki-Slafkovsky. And we don't know if that line will stick together long term.

To bring up the Dorion Sens again, they paid big bucks for Chychrun too because they lacked depth on D. Except Sanderson was effective sooner than expected, none of Chychrun/Chabot/Sanderson work at RD and as a result Ottawa decisively lost the Chychrun trade both ways, in a manner which has set them back significantly.

My preference is Montreal doing something. Which is why I'm in favour of targeting a Laine trade where the risk is more salary (which Montreal can handle) than assets. But if I had to choose between aggressiveness (which can lead to forcing a square peg into a round hole) and being passive (which can lead to missed opportunities and take longer), I choose the latter.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

In seasons where he's played more than 70 games, he's scored 30 or more.

He also has

28 in 68 4 years ago
26 in 56 3 years ago
22 in 55 2 years ago

Stop being disingenuous. The last hab who had a better scoring rate was pacioretty.

Scoring rate means jack shit and you know this. Just look at the board thinkijg Caufield might reach 40 this year because of his scoring rate last year.

Also, you can't say he isn't injury prone and then show he hasn't played 70+ games in a while.

Assuming what another poster said is true that he was in the the program to cope with the death of his father, a high pressure place to play might not be the best for him overall. Losing a parent, or any family member, or friend f***ing sucks, but there are a bunch of athletes and everyday people here that that happens to and have gone back to work, or playing a short time after. St. Louis as an example.

If he comes here and things don't go well for him, even with a team people aren't expecting much out of. Bottom 5 finish to maybe bottom 15 finish at the best, it can still play a big part in his mental health.

With Carolina supposedly be interested he should go there for him, or hope he gets dealt there. They're good and like most places when they're good they have fans, but when he's there on his day off he won't see a paper about him not scoring, or him not producing. Conversely, he won't see them there if he's playing well, either.

That would be best for him and maybe he gets his career back on track and he's playing almost every game and scoring 30+ goals and I'm sitting here eating some crow.




Seems odd no one has addressed that this makes his 2nd team he's asked for a trade from and doesn't raise any concerns about attitude, but it did for PLD. Seems like they both have attitude problems.

 

[Habs10Habs]

Hmmmmmm, You're probably right That they will get a top 6 player. I'd personally rather wait a year just because nobody on the market currently is all that enticing.....and also because, by next off season, we will have even more assets to trade, and we will have a better read on our current team/players/prospects. That's just such a gravy position to be in lol

I do wonder what kind of term Habs are looking at though for this top 6 player. I'm guessing here but 2 years, maybe 3 years max seems like that would be their preference? If so , Laine is probably the only player on the market (that we know of) that makes sense.

I could definitely live with that. That wouldn't hurt development for other guys all that much, would help rack up a few more wins, and Laine would be cheap to acquire so no real loss of premium assets either.

That's fair, but if management feels the right player is available. I'd rather they jump on the opportunity now.

True, we've only heard a few rumoured names. We obviously don't know who else could be available between now and the start of the season.

lol yes we could wait. I'm not that impatient. As for the team's management. I guess we'll have to see how patient they are.

I think that might depend on the age of the player they're interested in. If the player is over 30. I'd say in the 2 to 3 yr range. If they're within our team's age range. Say between 23 to 26. They may be interested in having them for a longer period of time. In Laine's case, he's in the team's age range. But he comes with some let's say issues. Personally I think he fits perfectly because even though his salary is high. The cost to get him shouldn't be. Plus if he doesn't work out. He only has 2 years left on his contract.

That's why I've been pushing for us to get Laine. He's still young, he fits our time frame. Won't cost us as much as some of the other rumoured players that are available. Plus he won't really be holding back anyone.

 

[ReHabs]

At an increased caphit, likely over 10.

If he earns it, what's the problem? If he doesn't earn it, you let him go. That's the point: it is LOW-RISK. It's like a trial period.

What I'm hoping for, but pretty much have no faith in happening is the Habs grab Draisaitl, potentially Rantanen, but health might be an issue there, or even Marner.

Apply the same standards in your arguments:

Drai will be 29 when he's UFA, you want to give him a contract until he's a living mummy?
Marner and Rantanen will be 28, same age Laine will be, you want to give him a contract until he's retired?

Yes, Marner isn't the best when the chips are down, but there have been others who seemed to disappear in the playoffs and later broke that.

Furthermore given what Laine has done, he's not going to bring more than his current contract and would likely want more despite not proving he's worth it.

Pro-Marner but anti-Laine, wow.

Guess what-- if Laine doesn't prove he's worth it, he doesn't get retained. Simple, isn't it.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Is he pure Laine?