HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[DAChampion]

I guess if Dach misses an entire season again, Newhook misses 35% of the season again, Slafkovsky stagnates at 50 points, Caufield shoots historically low again, Hutson has no impact on our PP, Guhle/Xhekaj/Barron/Struble/Harris make no improvements defensively and Roy produces like a green rookie.

It won't necessarily be Dach and Newhook missing a lot of games, but yes we should expect injuries in any given year. It could also be that Dach and Newhook play 160 games but Suzuki, Caulfield, and Slafkovsky miss 30 games each. The same is true on defense.The team has also lost Monahan.

But hey, even if we assume as you do that there are zero injuries and that every young player progresses, then it makes even more sense to add a good forward, because that can mean winning one more playoff round.

 

[Jaynki]

I guess if Dach misses an entire season again, Newhook misses 35% of the season again, Slafkovsky stagnates at 50 points, Caufield shoots historically low again, Hutson has no impact on our PP, Guhle/Xhekaj/Barron/Struble/Harris make no improvements defensively and Roy produces like a green rookie.

Dont forget one of our goalie going 3-12 like Allen did and the record of 1 goal game.

People can't see past their nose.

Our team as a whole is about to experiment spectacular, parabolic, exponential growth.

 

[vokiel]

I guess if Dach misses an entire season again, Newhook misses 35% of the season again, Slafkovsky stagnates at 50 points, Caufield shoots historically low again, Hutson has no impact on our PP, Guhle/Xhekaj/Barron/Struble/Harris make no improvements defensively and Roy produces like a green rookie.

That's assuming the teams facing the Habs are exactly the same.

 

[DAChampion]

That's assuming the teams facing the Habs are exactly the same.

About a third of them will have improved, another third will be roughly the same, and the last third will have worsened.

 

[vokiel]

About a third of them will have improved, another third will be roughly the same, and the last third will have worsened.

So says your crystal ball?

 

[Jaynki]

That's assuming the teams facing the Habs are exactly the same.

Some teams have plateaued and have to sign UFA to stay relevant.

Some have downright regressed.

We are one of the few teams who we can expect to organically improve, a lot.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I agree with your post otherwise but this argument doesn't work. Laine has issues: injury and mental health both, and he's coming off surgery, and his team is openly discussing trading him "for a fresh start"... all of which have clear implications on his trade value. Caufield also has less shine on him because, much to our disappointment, he was a dog most of last season. (How good is Caufield that a 65pt season is disappointing? I think it's a good thing to expect a lot from would-be star players tbh -- it means we're on the right track!)

From what I've seen of Caufield so far and peak Laine, I would think everyone takes peak Laine if only for his size. The question is if peak Laine will ever come back. Overall the analysis is: He's relatively cheap to acquire, and has two years left @ 8.7m so it is a good gamble overall.

Peak Laine corresponded with ELC Laine.

He has not performed at that level since he got his money 5 years ago.

Peak Caufield, meanwhile, is likely still to come. He is only 23 and working on his game constantly.

 

[ReHabs]

So says your crystal ball?

It's just the normal break down

Some teams have plateaued and have to sign UFA to stay relevant.

Oh what I would do for the Habs to be as good as 'relevant'...

Peak Caufield, meanwhile, is likely still to come. He is working on his game constantly.

Being very charitable like this to one but not the other is a... dishonest argument.

 

[vokiel]

Some teams have plateaued and have to sign UFA to stay relevant.

Some have downright regressed.

We are one of the few teams who we can expect to organically improve, a lot.

You mean if all prospects development goes like you imagine in your head. That's a lot of unknowns you know. I think if they have the same kind of injuries and troubles as last season, we're getting a 1st OA. Lack of experience weighting heavily on handling adversity. You need those UFA vets to be able to perform out of it.

 

[ReHabs]

You mean if all prospects development goes like you imagine in your head. That's a lot of unknowns you know. I think if they have the same kind of injuries and troubles as last season, we're getting a 1st OA. Lack of experience weighting heavily on handling adversity. You need those UFA vets to be able to perform out of it.

Honestly for me, I'm not in the prediction game and I won't say we look like we're gonna be X or Y and therefore must acquire Z.

What I want is for the young Habs to gain experience playing meaningful games. At this point of the rebuild it is absolutely timely and worthwhile. I think adding a top6 player like Laine would reinforce a lot of good things: Hughes wants to win, Hughes bets on talent, Hughes wants depth, Hughes makes calculated risks.

But it's not just Laine. I could be any other top6 player. I just want to see a significant contributor added to the growing core.

 

[Jaynki]

Oh what I would do for the Habs to be as good as relevant

Oh, i am with you on this. I sincerely hope we land Laine, but also because he makes sense both in terms of upside, fit and risk profile. I don't think it is the case with Necas or Zegras.

Status quo might be platonic for next year, but 90% of the main pieces are in place and its a matter of time right now.

I think worst than status quo, is making a move for the sake of it. That is the ultimate trap. We are in the driver seat. We can afford to wait for the right opportunity and pounce agresively on it rather than force it.

 

[ReHabs]

It won't necessarily be Dach and Newhook missing a lot of games, but yes we should expect injuries in any given year. It could also be that Dach and Newhook play 160 games but Suzuki, Caulfield, and Slafkovsky miss 30 games each. The same is true on defense.The team has also lost Monahan.

But hey, even if we assume as you do that there are zero injuries and that every young player progresses, then it makes even more sense to add a good forward, because that can mean winning one more playoff round.

But then this unnatural (illegal? possibly.) would get in the way of the tank and throwing away another year. We can't have that. We must grow organically.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's just the normal break down


Oh what I would do for the Habs to be as good as 'relevant'...


Being very charitable like this to one but not the other is a... dishonest argument.

Not at all. Caufield's coaches strongly praise his progress and attention to detail. Laine's coaches do not, and have not for years. You've noticed that, no?

Caufield has improved as a playmaker, improved as a defensive player, and finished his 1st year post-contract better than he started (when he was reportedly missing strength in his injured shoulder as measured by shot velocity).

 

[Jaynki]

We must grow organically.

I think it is the reasonable expectation.

If we stagnate, it will be management first very real test and first big strike.

 

[vokiel]

Honestly for me, I'm not in the prediction game and I won't say we look like we're gonna be X or Y and therefore must acquire Z.

What I want is for the young Habs to gain experience playing meaningful games. At this point of the rebuild it is absolutely timely and worthwhile. I think adding a top6 player like Laine would reinforce a lot of good things: Hughes wants to win, Hughes bets on talent, Hughes wants depth, Hughes makes calculated risks.

But it's not just Laine. I could be any other top6 player. I just want to see a significant contributor added to the growing core.

It's not just Hughes. Suzuki, Caufield and Slafkovsky will want to be winners sooner than later as well. They can wait it out another season, but... I do hope they took a gander at the UFA crop for July 2025 and beyond. The rebuild could end up being a long one if they don't do those projections/predictions.

Laine is a 2 years gamble, giving them some padding with the development. I don't see why we'd make no solid offers.

 

[ReHabs]

Not at all. Caufield's coaches strongly praise his progress and attention to detail. Laine's coaches do not, aqnd have not for years. You've noticed that, no?

I think these all-or-nothing statements are dishonest. Laine has had a lot of praise thrown his way too, it's not nothing. The CBJ regime was fired recently for their across-the-board failure, you've noticed that, no?

Caufield has improved as a playmaker, improved as a defensive player, and finished his 1st year post-contract better than he started (when he was reportedly missing strength in his injured shoulder as measured by shot velocity).

Caufield's got potential to be great, we shouldn't think about trading him. I have his jersey, I'm a big fan. I hope he can do what Laine did when he was healthy. Clavicle injury and then shoulder injury have f***ed him but they're not chronic issues let's be fair -- never the less it explains the 'cheap' cost to acquire him.

 

[26Mats]

About a third of them will have improved, another third will be roughly the same, and the last third will have worsened.

which third have worsened?

 

[salbutera]

CBJ have $10M+ available cap space - Waddell won’t be in any hurry to move Laine until he gets what he views as a fair deal.

 

[26Mats]

It's not just Hughes. Suzuki, Caufield and Slafkovsky will want to be winners sooner than later as well. They can wait it out another season, but... I do hope they took a gander at the UFA crop for July 2025 and beyond. The rebuild could end up being a long one if they don't do those projections/predictions.

Laine is a 2 years gamble, giving them some padding with the development. I don't see why we'd make no solid offers.

CBJ have $10M+ available cap space - Waddell won’t be in any hurry to move Laine until he gets what he views as a fair deal.

Would you do:
To MTL: Laine (at least 1.2M retained)
To CLB: Anderson + Barron/Struble + 2025 Florida 1st.

We get Laine AND lose Anderson.
Columbus gets a 1st, plus a young dman. Hughes just turned a late 1st and a 2nd into Hage. I think he could do a lot with that pick, and the surplus 2nds we'll have from trading Savard, Armia, and Dvo at the TDL. I don't want to lose that pick. But I do want to try out Laine and lose Anderson's cap hit.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I think we will be better. All those improvements could push us over the hump in many of the 1 goal games that we lost last year.

But we also had Monahan for a good portion of last year. We'll see how the injury bug hits. Should be better. Could be worse. Also, most other teams are better than last year.

We also don't compete in a league of one. Teams around us will expect improvements as well.

It seems like the expectation from the do nothing crowd is that every single young player will improve, we will have no injuries and teams around us simply do not exist.

 

[Tyson]

Would you do:
To MTL: Laine (at least 1.2M retained)
To CLB: Anderson + Barron/Struble + 2025 Florida 1st.

We get Laine AND lose Anderson.
Columbus gets a 1st, plus a young dman. Hughes just turned a late 1st and a 2nd into Hage. I think he could do a lot with that pick, and the surplus 2nds we'll have from trading Savard, Armia, and Dvo at the TDL. I don't want to lose that pick. But I do want to try out Laine and lose Anderson's cap hit.

Wadell should just be trying to unload the 8.7 mil.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Would you do:
To MTL: Laine (at least 1.2M retained)
To CLB: Anderson + Barron/Struble + 2025 Florida 1st.

We get Laine AND lose Anderson.
Columbus gets a 1st, plus a young dman. Hughes just turned a late 1st and a 2nd into Hage. I think he could do a lot with that pick, and the surplus 2nds we'll have from trading Savard, Armia, and Dvo at the TDL. I don't want to lose that pick. But I do want to try out Laine and lose Anderson's cap hit.

Columbus doesn't want anything to do with Anderson. Armia and Dvo won't land you seconds, maybe Savard. Anyways, I don't believe Laine in MTL will do any good. The Habs should target Backstrom's contract or Oshie. They can force the Caps to move a second.

 

[DAChampion]

But then this unnatural (illegal? possibly.) would get in the way of the tank and throwing away another year. We can't have that. We must grow organically.

Growing "organically" isn't an actual concept, it's a buzzword. In this case as in others, people are using buzzwords because they can't be bothered to explain what they actually mean.

 

[Habby4Life]

Not making the top six of a cup winner does not mean a player isn’t top six. Two different things.

He’s a 23 year old player who’s not even in his prime. He’ll be good enough for the top six now. Demidov comes in and he’ll be pushed down.

We are not contenders, we are a developing team.

I never said top 6 of cup contender, I said he isn’t a top 6 period. Pezz can be a second line guy for now, lol. Just because they play there doesn’t mean they are, end of story.

I guess he’s good enough if you like mediocrity, lol.

Thankfully, I’m convinced Hugo will reward the leaders of the team and add a top 6 to this team by the end of summer.

 

[Tyson]

Growing "organically" isn't an actual concept, it's a buzzword. In this case as in others, people are using buzzwords because they can't be bothered to explain what they actually mean.

Is drafting, developing and implementing these players a concept?