HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Lafleurs Guy]

See again, that's where we disagree. Laine gives us the "potential" of adding a long term solution to our goal of building a cup winner. If the rumours are true, HuGo was looking to add to the teams top 6, through UFA. Which in my humble opinion, shows me he's not quite as confident in our top 6 as you are.

I think Hugo will get somebody for the top six. Maybe this year or next. I just don't think Laine is the guy we should get. I've said why already.

Eventually you could see Newhook with Beck and Roy on the 3rd line. At that point we'll be in terrific shape. Newhook's a guy who can easily play on the second. Roy we have to wait and see.

True, which is why I'd hope HuGo and the coaching staff is able to sit down with Laine.


See that is what you would do. The impression I'm getting from hearing Hughes and Gorton talk. Points me in another direction. I don't think what we see now. Is what we'll get once the season starts.

You are correct. Hughes has specifically said this.

Again though, Laine wouldn't be my guy.

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm sure there are some that feel that way. Personally I feel he can be a much better player than what he's shown these last few seasons. Though I will admit, his injuries are a concern. The salary on the other hand. Doesn't concern me for the next two seasons. I wouldn't be against that either. I just think that due too availability and cost to obtain him. Laine just makes more sense than the other we've heard are rumoured to be available.

Injuries, brings what we already have, big paycheck, mental health... just too much baggage for me.

Roy put up better stats in the Q.
RHP put up better stats in the AHL and NHL.

Neither one of them really stood out from the other.

Roy wasn't in the AHL very long. Won a scoring title in the Q and almost won another. Killed it at the start in the AHL, played on Team Canada... I'd say he's a better player/prospect by a fair bit.

 

[JianYang]

Benchmarking, lol. This team is starving for goals which he has proven he can do. No better opportunity than a 26 yr old with his ability.

That's a sobering thought.

 

[ReHabs]

Pace, lol.

Even if he does get 50 doesn’t mean he is legit top 6 guy. Maybe on a shitty team like the habs but not on any relevant team.

It doesn’t even take into account if a team *should* have Newhook in its top6. Much like Drouin or Tatar, coaches have to look at the whole package.

The points is a solid good foundation but how they play and how they get their points is highly relevant to their “top6” worthiness.

Newhook is player with upside for more but the Avs, a team with ambition, had no issues cutting him loose. Hint.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Pace, lol.

Do you think he won't hit 50? Be honest.

If not, what do you think he'll do?

We're not talking about vets. We're talking about 22 year old players who's games have been limited by youth and injuries. We can only extrapolate from what we've seen.

Even if he does get 50 doesn’t mean he is legit top 6 guy. Maybe on a shitty team like the habs but not on any relevant team.

????

This doesn't make any sense. If you get 50 points on a shitty team then you're doing really well. If you're Drouin and getting 50 with Mackinnon and Makar then it explains a lot.

 

[Habs10Habs]

There have been alot of ifs associated with him for the last few years. I'm not a fan of his game... and definitely not a fan when he doesn't have the puck on his stick.

Id prefer to keep the cap space. Maybe a better a opportunity or two comes available in the next year or so, and you will be better positioned to pounce on more reliable assets.

Hughes "Meh, sorry boys. We've decided to stick our hands in our pockets. Hoping for a better opportunity next season". "So suck it up buttercups, we'll be better this year"

 

[Habby4Life]

It doesn’t even take into account if a team *should* have Newhook in its top6. Much like Drouin or Tatar, coaches have to look at the whole package.

The points is a solid good foundation but how they play and how they get their points is highly relevant to their “top6” worthiness.

Newhook is player with upside for more bjt the Avs, a team with ambition, had no issues cutting him loose. Hint.

Well said.

 

[ReHabs]

Well said.

I don’t think Newhook makes the healthy top6 of many of the recent Cup finalists. Not the Newhook I’ve seen so far. Maybe he will step up this season, maybe not — it shouldn’t preclude us from acquiring scoring depth for our goal-starved team.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

And Ribeiro was better than Koivu and Beaulieu was better than Emelin, and Andrighetto was as good as P:acioretty.

I guess we shouldn't project Demidov to be part of the top 6 and top pp unit either.

Caufield has absolutely proven he is a better scorer than Laine recently.

Laine has had more total seasons and some high scoring ones in the past, but he has regressed a lot since his first two seasons, when he was 18 and 19. His last 30 goal season was age 20, and he just turned 26.

So far in his career starting 2020-21, Caufield has 81 goals in 205 games = 0.40 gpg

In the same period, Laine has 66 goals in 175 games = 0.38 gpg

How is Laine clearly better?

Well, that's a dishonest way of looking at it.

Laine is only 26 years old. He isn't an old player on the decline. His teenage years were not his prime years, so it makes no sense to disregard them.

You also started counting from the 2020-2021 season, which I'm sure a lot of it had to do with Laine having the worst goalscoring season in his career by far.

Laine has scored or paced for 30 goals or more 6 times in his career. Caufield has done it twice. Laine has scored 44 goals, whereas Caufield never actually hit 30 goals.

There is no debate on which player is the more proven goalscorer. It's Laine without a doubt. Maybe Caufield will change that in the future, but right now it's obviously Laine.

 

[ReHabs]

Hughes "Meh, sorry boys. We've decided to stick our hands in our pockets. Hoping for a better opportunity next season". "So suck it up buttercups, we'll be better this year"

NHL teams: If you don’t block shots you’re not a team player and don’t want to win the Cup.

Also NHL teams: We’ve decided you’re gonna be undermanned and underpowered yet again. And you better not complain— Joshua Roy needs unobstructed playing time.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I think Hugo will get somebody for the top six. Maybe this year or next. I just don't think Laine is the guy we should get. I've said why already.

Fair enough, but you know that whomever we add. Is going to block Roy right? Which seemed to me was a large part of your earlier arguements.

Eventually you could see Newhook with Beck and Roy on the 3rd line. At that point we'll be in terrific shape. Newhook's a guy who can easily play on the second. Roy we have to wait and see.

Since it will probably happen next season. What's the difference of putting Roy on the 3rd line now? If Laine doesn't work, stick him on the 3rd line.

You are correct. Hughes has specifically said this.

Again though, Laine wouldn't be my guy.

Again fair enough. I can respect that

Injuries, brings what we already have, big paycheck, mental health... just too much baggage for me.

Very true, but these are the reasons why we should be able to obtain him for a reasonable price.

Roy wasn't in the AHL very long. Won a scoring title in the Q and almost won another. Killed it at the start in the AHL, played on Team Canada... I'd say he's a better player/prospect by a fair bit.

Yes but it wasn't that long ago that Roy was considered in the same range as Riley freaking Kidney lol Has he gotten better? Absolutely, but I need to see more before handing him a top 6 role.

 

[Habby4Life]

Do you think he won't hit 50? Be honest.

If not, what do you think he'll do?

We're not talking about vets. We're talking about 22 year old players who's games have been limited by youth and injuries. We can only extrapolate from what we've seen.

????

This doesn't make any sense. If you get 50 points on a shitty team then you're doing really well. If you're Drouin and getting 50 with Mackinnon and Makar then it explains a lot.

Huberdeau put up 52 with the crap flames, wonder if cowtown thinks he did really well, lol. Well isn’t just points, Bunting got 50 plus and I wouldn’t want him either in my top 6. More to a guys game the just 50 points.

Newhook 50, probably not, might get close but even if he does he still isn’t top 6 material.

Sorry but you’re not going to convince me a second line with Newhook and Roy is anything better than a poor/shitty second line. Niether has proven they are top 6 guys.

Moving on.

 

[Habby4Life]

I don’t think Newhook makes the healthy top6 of many of the recent Cup finalists. Not the Newhook I’ve seen so far. Maybe he will step up this season, maybe not — it shouldn’t preclude us from acquiring scoring depth for our goal-starved team.

Exactly.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Exactly.

Not making the top six of a cup winner does not mean a player isn’t top six. Two different things.

He’s a 23 year old player who’s not even in his prime. He’ll be good enough for the top six now. Demidov comes in and he’ll be pushed down.

We are not contenders, we are a developing team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Fair enough, but you know that whomever we add. Is going to block Roy right? Which seemed to me was a large part of your earlier arguements.

If it makes sense to do it that’s fine. He can still get time in the top six.

But I don’t think a guy like Laine coming in makes sense long term. I’d just stick with Roy and develop him instead.

Since it will probably happen next season. What's the difference of putting Roy on the 3rd line now? If Laine doesn't work, stick him on the 3rd line.

Why invest in Laine to begin with? Invest in another player with less baggage.

Again fair enough. I can respect that


Very true, but these are the reasons why we should be able to obtain him for a reasonable price.


Yes but it wasn't that long ago that Roy was considered in the same range as Riley freaking Kidney lol Has he gotten better? Absolutely, but I need to see more before handing him a top 6 role.

That’s fine. I’m not against adding someone. But do it for the right reason. It has to be a long term move. I just don’t like quick fixes that push younger players down. No point in that kind of move. I don’t see Laine as a long term move for us.

 

[ReHabs]

Not making the top six of a cup winner does not mean a player isn’t top six. Two different things.

He’s a 23 year old player who’s not even in his prime. He’ll be good enough for the top six now. Demidov comes in and he’ll be pushed down.

How are you still arguing this.

Having the top6 of a Cup Winner is the aspiration. If Newhook isn't considered as a fit in that ideal cohort, it means we -- with our not Cup Winning roster -- can always improve the top6. The point is to highlight the OPPORTUNITY to improve the roster. Laine, McGroarty, etc. are players that fit this and are known to be on the market.

When Demidov, Hage, Riley Kidney, and Sean Farrell break down the barn doors and take the NHL by storm we will see Hughes make moves to adjust the roster to an optimal level. Depth is always good, and depth means having good players playing BELOW their station -- so they can step up in case of injury or opportunity. We do not have depth and we have an incredibly under-proven top6 -- which is why most commentators agree we need to acquire another top6 quality player to see any improvement in our performances and results this year.

Not playoffs
Not winning the cup

Just improvement. It runs contrary to the endless tanking approach though.

I don’t see Laine as a long term move for us.

Nothing says Laine is not a long-term move. The benefit of the acquisition is to have an 'out-clause' in case the fit doesn't work out. If it does work, then of course the Habs would want to retain him.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I guess we shouldn't project Demidov to be part of the top 6 and top pp unit either.

Demidov does not have obvious deficiencies like Hutson. Faster skater, stronger body, better shot. There is a reason Hutson went 62nd and Demidov 5th.

And yet even with Demidov, I would never say TODAY "it's CLEAR (!!) Demidov will be better offensively than Suzuki and should replace him on the PP in his rookie season".

Well, that's a dishonest way of looking at it.......You also started counting from the 2020-2021 season, which I'm sure a lot of it had to do with Laine having the worst goalscoring season in his career by far.

Kindly shove your character assassination where the sun don't shine. You can disagree with me, no problem, but NEVER call me dishonest. Get it?

I picked 2020-21 since that was Caufield's rookie season. Can't compare any previous seasons.

Laine is only 26 years old. He isn't an old player on the decline. His teenage years were not his prime years, so it makes no sense to disregard them.

I can and do heavily discount his long-faded hungry ELC years, and give more weight to the last 4 and 1/2 highly paid seasons. Halfway through his very first year with a big contract, he started descending the pecking order in Winnipeg.

Laine has scored or paced for 30 goals or more 6 times in his career. Caufield has done it twice. Laine has scored 44 goals, whereas Caufield never actually hit 30 goals.

There is no debate on which player is the more proven goalscorer. It's Laine without a doubt. Maybe Caufield will change that in the future, but right now it's obviously Laine.

I agree there is "no debate", but for the opposite reason.

Seriously, if Laine is "no debate" a better goalscorer than Caufield, and is only 26, then his contract at only 10% more AAV than Caufield's should have equivalent value!

Try to sell that bridge to 32 GMs!!

And by the way, I'm not a hater. I'm on record as in FAVOUR of acquiring Laine. I just have realistic expectations.

 

[ReHabs]

Seriously, if Laine is a better goalscorer than Caufield, and is only 26, then his contract at only 10% more AAV than Caufield's should have equivalent value!

I agree with your post otherwise but this argument doesn't work. Laine has issues: injury and mental health both, and he's coming off surgery, and his team is openly discussing trading him "for a fresh start"... all of which have clear implications on his trade value. Caufield also has less shine on him because, much to our disappointment, he was a dog most of last season. (How good is Caufield that a 65pt season is disappointing? I think it's a good thing to expect a lot from would-be star players tbh -- it means we're on the right track!)

From what I've seen of Caufield so far and peak Laine, I would think everyone takes peak Laine if only for his size. The question is if peak Laine will ever come back. Overall the analysis is: He's relatively cheap to acquire, and has two years left @ 8.7m so it is a good gamble overall.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I agree with your post otherwise but this argument doesn't work. Laine has issues: injury and mental health both, and he's coming off surgery, and his team is openly discussing trading him "for a fresh start"... all of which have clear implications on his trade value. Caufield also has less shine on him because, much to our disappointment, he was a dog most of last season. (How good is Caufield that a 65pt season is disappointing? I think it's a good thing to expect a lot from would-be star players tbh -- it means we're on the right track!)

From what I've seen of Caufield so far and peak Laine, I would think everyone takes peak Laine if only for his size. The question is if peak Laine will ever come back. Overall the analysis is: He's relatively cheap to acquire, and has two years left @ 8.7m so it is a good gamble overall.

Is it a good gamble tho? It just seems like Laine is exactly the kind of player HuGo has been avoiding. In my opinion at least, they skipped Michkov and didn’t pump the tires on Dubois for reasons that probably highly related to character so why Laine now? He’s been struggling with off ice issues for like 6 years.

 

[ReHabs]

He’s been struggling with off ice issues for like 6 years.

Has he? I thought the depression was a recent thing. Am open to reading supporting facts you’d have on it.

Is it a good gamble tho? It just seems like Laine is exactly the kind of player HuGo has been avoiding. In my opinion at least, they skipped Michkov and didn’t pump the tires on Dubois for reasons that probably highly related to character so why Laine now? He’s been struggling with off ice issues for like 6 years.

I think they skipped Michkov because they preferred Reinbacher. They didn’t pay the price for PLD because it was too high. I don’t think it was character concerns.

 

[BLONG7]

Has he? I thought the depression was a recent thing. Am open to reading supporting facts you’d have on it.


I think they skipped Michkov because they preferred Reinbacher. They didn’t pay the price for PLD because it was too high. I don’t think it was character concerns.

Could well be, that they weren't concerned about character issues, but every time they speak, they talk culture......

As for Laine, I think most will agree, this is a good gamble, as long as the price is reasonable......Hughes does take calculated risks.

 

[ReHabs]

Could well be, that they weren't concerned about character issues, but every time they speak, they talk culture......

As for Laine, I think most will agree, this is a good gamble, as long as the price is reasonable......Hughes does take calculated risks.

I did some reading -- Laine had statements 'against' former coaches Larsen and Torts both. It was absolutely miniscule but you know how it is in hockey circles, any statement that's not 100% innocuous is a sign of "off-ice problems" or bad character or as you say a 'bad culture fit'.

 

[DAChampion]

If Hughes doesn't add an effective top six forward (not necessarily Laine), then the Habs will likely finish around 5th from the bottom again.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If Hughes doesn't add an effective top six forward (not necessarily Laine), then the Habs will likely finish around 5th from the bottom again.

I guess if Dach misses an entire season again, Newhook misses 35% of the season again, Slafkovsky stagnates at 50 points, Caufield shoots historically low again, Hutson has no impact on our PP, Guhle/Xhekaj/Barron/Struble/Harris make no improvements defensively and Roy produces like a green rookie.

 

[26Mats]

If Hughes doesn't add an effective top six forward (not necessarily Laine), then the Habs will likely finish around 5th from the bottom again.

The cool thing is, I'd be happy if we finished 5th last overall (imagine being able to add another Reinbacher or Demidov to the future depth chart) and I'd be happy if we added a top six forward (would be good for Dach).

Glass is half full.

 

[26Mats]

I guess if Dach misses an entire season again, Newhook misses 35% of the season again, Slafkovsky stagnates at 50 points, Caufield shoots historically low again, Hutson has no impact on our PP, Guhle/Xhekaj/Barron/Struble/Harris make no improvements defensively and Roy produces like a green rookie.

I think we will be better. All those improvements could push us over the hump in many of the 1 goal games that we lost last year.

But we also had Monahan for a good portion of last year. We'll see how the injury bug hits. Should be better. Could be worse. Also, most other teams are better than last year.