HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024-25 Season

[morhilane]

Define getting better - PP & PK are much better so far, is that not getting better?

PK is mostly vets and that's a problem next season since 4 of the top 5 PKers are UFAs. Habs PKer per TOI:
Savard - UFA
Evans - UFA
Matheson -
Dvorak - UFA
Armia - UFA
Guhle -
Anderson -
Barron - healthty scratch
Xhekaj - barely play
Struble - barely play
Suzuki -
Hutson -
Kapanen - 4.5 minutes total...everyone else played less.

Habs will have a very green PK next season.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Your point had nothing to do with the expiring contract. You said Lars Ellers won't be the difference. That kind of thinking is faulty, you accept it right?

Literally, my first post mentions it being about a rental player:

Besides, if the management (correctly) thought there should be progress this year then they should make moves to correct the trajectory and get back on the right track. You can't hold onto 3rd and 5th round picks like a dragon hoarding its coins when you can instead tangibly improve the roster and stop the losing, loser culture from taking up more of the room.

Adding Eller isn't going to stop the losing.

Who cares about their trade value? They have none.

A roster upgrade is a roster upgrade.

Evans should easily have more value than Eller at the tdl, and Dvorak could have more value depending on the season he has.

The poster won't accept it. Apparently you can't make these types of trades if your last place, but if you're not last place it's totally okay. So the 2nd last Hawks can trade a 5th for Beauvillier in November and then flip him for a 5th later in the season, but we can't do a similar thing in Eller.

We should stop pretending that this season is going exactly as planned with management's initial vision. Neither Dach nor Newhook can play center right now, which is hurting the team. Eller would have been a perfect stopgap until the deadline where we could have flipped him again (thus regaining "valuable" picks based on his cherry-picked examples) and give Dach/Newhook another try at center where there are only like 16 games left in the season.

You're going to pretend Beauvilier and Eller were at the same stage of their career? Beauvilier was 26 years old and Eller is 35 years old. Beauvillier was young enough that he could be part of the future with the hawks and re-signed if he performed well. Eller is a pure rental.

Furthermore, the hawks acquired Beauvilier after Hall got injured and Perry's contract was terminated, so they needed nhl bodies at that time.

 

[EXPOS123]

Because progress matters for the young leadership group that are already here. I don't want to be the Buffalo Sabres.

This whole “ I don’t want to be like the Buffalo Sabres” is getting old.

We are not anywhere close to being them and won’t be.

They are 10 years into their rebuild - we are literally in our third.

Give it a rest. The only reason they are in that position is because of incompetent management that made bad trades, signings and coaching and managent hires, not because they were losing with young players at the start of their rebuild.

And it’s funny how no one mentions Chicago, Tampa, penguins and Rangers whose rebuild was quick and they won championships

I am perfectly fine with our direction because we finally have a great management team in place. I fully expect this team to take a massive jump next year

 

[Goalfield13]

Habs presently sit 4pts out of a wildcard spot & 6pts out of 3rd in the division, US Thanksgiving will provide a better idea if this team will be better, the same or worse IMO

points mean nothing when only 16 games have been played. we are -21 already, man. We lost a lot of 1 goal games last year. Not even close to that this year.

 

[Goalfield13]

This whole “ I don’t want to be like the Buffalo Sabres” is getting old.

We are not anywhere close to being them and won’t be.

They are 10 years into their rebuild - we are literally in our third.

Give it a rest. The only reason they are in that position is because of incompetent management that made bad trades, signings and coaching and managent hires, not because they were losing with young players at the start of their rebuild.

And it’s funny how no one mentions Chicago, Tampa, penguins and Rangers whose rebuild was quick and they won championships

I am perfectly fine with our direction because we finally have a great management team in place. I fully expect this team to take a massive jump next year

It's only getting old to you because you don't want to hear it. I won't give it a rest; don't tell me what to do. We are regressing from even last year. You want to see progress.

The Rangers are not a good example when they got top quality UFAs to come in. If they had to rely on Laf and Kakko, they would still be bottom of the basement.

For all the Tampas, Penguins and Hawks, there are teams like the Sabres and Red Wings that have been floundering for years. The Ducks, who are not usually mentioned in these debates, are in year 7 of their rebuild.

 

[salbutera]

Three options the Blue Jackets have with David Jiricek, who may be running out chances

David Jiricek has struggled to get ice time in Columbus this season.

unionandblue.com

 

[Captain Mountain]

PK is mostly vets and that's a problem next season since 4 of the top 5 PKers are UFAs. Habs PKer per TOI:
Savard - UFA
Evans - UFA
Matheson -
Dvorak - UFA
Armia - UFA
Guhle -
Anderson -
Barron - healthty scratch
Xhekaj - barely play
Struble - barely play
Suzuki -
Hutson -
Kapanen - 4.5 minutes total...everyone else played less.

Habs will have a very green PK next season.

PK (and PP) are still small sample size, but the young guys have generally been more effective on the PK than the vets.

I'm also not sure why Montreal would go even younger next season just because the contacts overpaid vets (and Evans) are expiring.

 

[Garry Valk]

Three options the Blue Jackets have with David Jiricek, who may be running out chances

David Jiricek has struggled to get ice time in Columbus this season.

unionandblue.com

Jiricek would be a phenomenal add.

 

[EXPOS123]

It's only getting old to you because you don't want to hear it. I won't give it a rest; don't tell me what to do. We are regressing from even last year. You want to see progress.

The Rangers are not a good example when they got top quality UFAs to come in. If they had to rely on Laf and Kakko, they would still be bottom of the basement.

For all the Tampas, Penguins and Hawks, there are teams like the Sabres and Red Wings that have been floundering for years. The Ducks, who are not usually mentioned in these debates, are in year 7 of their rebuild.

I repeat once again we are literally 3 years into our rebuild - not 6, 7

And Detroit? When did Yzerman truly start the rebuild ? He was hired in April 2019 and had to first deal with the mess Holland left behind as he was still trying to win with the old guard

We are on the right track - this upcoming offseason will say a lot about whether we are Buffalo or Chicago

 

[Mrb1p]

The only thing you will get is a rookie that needs shelthered minutes. There is no Bedard in this year draft.

I don't know, Martone is a horse if I've ever seen one.

 

[ReHabs]

Three options the Blue Jackets have with David Jiricek, who may be running out chances

David Jiricek has struggled to get ice time in Columbus this season.

unionandblue.com

Would love to grab him and it would make the tank this year more palatable.

What would CBJ want?

 

[Goalfield13]

I repeat once again we are literally 3 years into our rebuild - not 6, 7

And Detroit? When did Yzerman truly start the rebuild ? He was hired in April 2019 and had to first deal with the mess Holland left behind as he was still trying to win with the old guard

We are on the right track - this upcoming offseason will say a lot about whether we are Buffalo or Chicago

Yes, this season will tell us a lot, and right now, we are not going in the right direction compared to last year.

 

[morhilane]

PK (and PP) are still small sample size, but the young guys have generally been more effective on the PK than the vets.

I'm also not sure why Montreal would go even younger next season just because the contacts overpaid vets (and Evans) are expiring.

It seems Hughes's plan is to fill in all those spots via graduating prospects. He's not interested to trade assets for a short term vet gap filler, and as seen with last year off-season, vets aren't interested in a short term contract either.

But I think the main issue is more that MSL doesn't give PK rep to the kids who are currently on the roster outside of Guhle/Hutson (I don't consider Suzuki a kid anymore).

 

[Mrb1p]

Vilardi was a helmet of an acquisition I think.

 

[EXPOS123]

Yes, this season will tell us a lot, and right now, we are not going in the right direction compared to last year.

It’s still early and we have some key guys coming back from major surgeries that are still struggling to keep up - they will get there.
So while we will still be atrocious defensively I think our team will turn it around on offense

 

[Goalfield13]

It’s still early and we have some key guys coming back from major surgeries that are still struggling to keep up - they will get there.
So while we will still be atrocious defensively I think our team will turn it around on offense

I hope so, man. I hope so...

 

[Captain Mountain]

It seems Hughes's plan is to fill in all those spots via graduating prospects. He's not interested to trade assets for a short term vet gap filler, and as seen with last year off-season, vets aren't interested in a short term contract either.

But I think the main issue is more that MSL doesn't give PK rep to the kids who are currently on the roster outside of Guhle/Hutson (I don't consider Suzuki a kid anymore).

I'm not sure why you're drawing that conclusion. Even if he's not interested in trading assets for a short term vet gap filler, that doesn't mean he's not interested in trading assets for medium term vet or signing vets in Free Agency. Nor can we look at last off-season (where he did eventually acquire a vet) and draw conclusions for next offseason, considering Montreal's changing cap considerations and the fact they're actually (finally) getting a better idea of where the many holes are (as opposed to having, like, 5 players who aren't overpaid vets or filler).

I'm also not concerned about kids not getting heavy PK reps. Its not a great idea to give kids too many minutes (especially considering the struggles some have had 5v5) and a lot of them will see more PP time than PK time. Even then, they're still getting a taste of PK minutes.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

It's only getting old to you because you don't want to hear it. I won't give it a rest; don't tell me what to do. We are regressing from even last year. You want to see progress.

The Rangers are not a good example when they got top quality UFAs to come in. If they had to rely on Laf and Kakko, they would still be bottom of the basement.

For all the Tampas, Penguins and Hawks, there are teams like the Sabres and Red Wings that have been floundering for years. The Ducks, who are not usually mentioned in these debates, are in year 7 of their rebuild.

And that is all irrelevant because everything depends on how good then GM and mgmt team are.

 

[domiwroze]

I'd scout around to trade Matheson + for a more stable natural RHD

That would be my priority.

 

[Goalfield13]

And that is all irrelevant because everything depends on how good then GM and mgmt team are.

And that is still up for debate.

 

[morhilane]

I'm not sure why you're drawing that conclusion. Even if he's not interested in trading assets for a short term vet gap filler, that doesn't mean he's not interested in trading assets for medium term vet or signing vets in Free Agency. Nor can we look at last off-season (where he did eventually acquire a vet) and draw conclusions for next offseason, considering Montreal's changing cap considerations and the fact they're actually (finally) getting a better idea of where the many holes are (as opposed to having, like, 5 players who aren't overpaid vets or filler).

I'm also not concerned about kids not getting heavy PK reps. Its not a great idea to give kids too many minutes (especially considering the struggles some have had 5v5) and a lot of them will see more PP time than PK time. Even then, they're still getting a taste of PK minutes.

Hughes has zero interest in medium term vet contracts, the only thing he ever acquired was reclamation project outside of Newhook. And you can't force vets to sign your UFA contract offers. Nobody was interested in the short contract offers Hughes did last July. That's not going to magically change next July (and there isn't any UFA defensive RHD to replace Savard on that market anyway).

X, Struble and Heineman can play more minutes then they are doing right now, and they aren't exactly staples on the power play.

 

[salbutera]

And that is all irrelevant because everything depends on how good then GM and mgmt team are.

How then did Stevie Y go from being a genius in TBay to bottom tier in Detroit?

The difference between best present GM in NHL to worst is so small because there are multitude of factors that impact the assessment - market locale (taxes, destination preference for players etc.), ownership commitment etc

I would say Chevaldayoff is the best GM in the NHL right now because Jets are the Dan Duquette / Kevin Malone managed Expos…. but that’s likely because necessity of the marketplace has forced Chevy to think & manage a certain way - just as Duquette & Malone were nowhere near as effective after leaving for large market org$ there’s no guarantee Chevy will be either

 

[Mrb1p]

How then did Stevie Y go from being a genius in TBay to bottom tier in Detroit?

The difference between best present GM in NHL to worst is so small because there are multitude of factors that impact the assessment - market locale (taxes, destination preference for players etc.), ownership commitment etc

I would say Chevaldayoff is the best GM in the NHL right now because Jets are the Dan Duquette / Kevin Malone managed Expos…. but that’s likely because necessity of the marketplace has forced Chevy to think & manage a certain way - just as Duquette & Malone were nowhere near as effective after leaving for large market org$ there’s no guarantee Chevy will be either

Was he a genius or did he just luck out on a near generational player in the 2nd round?

 

[ReHabs]

Adding Eller isn't going to stop the losing.

Upgrading the roster is the point, so the team marginally improves. No one player can turn this around.

Evans should easily have more value than Eller at the tdl, and Dvorak could have more value depending on the season he has.

It doesn't matter, does it? You're talking about nickels and dimes.

 

[dauv]

I'd scout around to trade Matheson + for a more stable natural RHD

That would be my priority.

which RD could be a good trade for Matheson and the 2X worst of the 3 - 2025 3rd rd picks or a 2026 2rd