Trade Deadline- What to Do??
- Thread starter AmericanDream
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ColdSteel2
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- Aug 27, 2010
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Yeah, Murphy needs to play big minutes down the stretch then they have to make a call on him. You can see what Stan is trying to do, exactly how you put it, if he can swap someone out for a younger cheaper version, he will. We have to create our own cap space so when the time is right we can jump on good trades and UFAs.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
You still don't get Murphy's level of play(and possible future level of play) out of a 1.5m defenseman, which is what Rob seems to think you can do...
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
ChiHawks10
Registered User
ColdSteel2
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- Aug 27, 2010
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Probably not but he needs to play a ton so we get a better picture of who he is and what he can be. He’s like the Hartman of the D, good player to have but he isn’t going to help resurrect this team based on what we have seen to this point. Maybe you move Murphy for prospects and sign a guy like John Moore with that money. I don’t know what he would cost but he is better than Murphy and provides top speed which fits well with the direction of the team.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
You need solid stay-at-home D. Not every D on your team can be a smaller, puck-moving, offensive D. And they have quite a few of those in the pipeline.
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
We don't know what Murphy is. We won't until we've got a different coach. He's done well playing his offside playing with a revolving door of talent.
Hopefully, Anisimov finishes strong and we can move him and one of the 1sts for a quality dman. Either that, or, Winnipeg falls just short and concludes they are a shutdown center and cup experience away and a Toews/Trouba deal ensues.
BobbyJet
The accountability era?
My impression is that Stan didn't cave to a low ball offer from CBJ. Good on him.
ChiHawks10
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ColdSteel2
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There’s no rush to move Murphy. He is young and signed reasonably long term. I would only move him if a Hartman type trade presents itself because then you gain assets and cap space.
I agree that when we are ready to win, we will need a guy like Murphy (and Hartman).
It’s a fluid situation, most important is that we adequately scout our own guys and be realistic about how far off we are, what we need and take advantage of every avenue we can to get it like we did with Hartman.
Blue Liner
Registered User
Yes, you still need this. They need to be able move (which Murphy can) but they don't all have to be offensive dynamos. The days of the lumbering stay-at-home guy are long gone, but you still need d-first d-men on your roster. They can still have some offensive pop like Hjamlarsson did with the occasional goal and set ups but they don't all need to be Karlsson.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
The only reason you move him is if you're going full rebuild. And this isn't, IMO. It's a partial/mini rebuild, or a retool on the fly. This team isn't as many pieces away from contending as some seem to think. At least IMO.
BobbyJet
The accountability era?
Agreed. He will never be pretty to watch but I like his compete level.
Blue Liner
Registered User
Think that's part of the knock on him. He is kind of "ugly". He's got a funky stride and kind of looks "clunky" but he's actually getting around just fine and making plays and making good decisions. He just doesn't look great doing it and they can skew opinions a bit.
Oh, no there will be player development to be sure. I agree that Forsling might take the next step --- but the next step for him is being a solid 3rd pairing guy (rather than the HAL/NHL tweener that he has been). The next step after that --- if he can get there --- would be a 2nd pairing guy. Not sure he can get there. maybe. Murphy is a solid 3rd pairing guy --- who may get to a 2nd pairing guy in a season or two (or may not). if so, he would likely be an average 9at best) 2nd pairing guy. Like you HJ is a maybe --- actually a likely top 4 if the expectations are met --- but that is what 2-years out at best? So... we need at least one or two such legit top-4 guys coming in pronto to have a blueline that is not a problem. So, where is the $ for that? We really have now only one legit, proven, top-4 D-man --- Duncs, and he is diminishing with time.
Thinking that 40 or 48 are top-6 guys is a really optimistic prediction. may happen, but doubtful. If they end up there, will they be well below average? Clearly 20/12/19/8 and 88 are there --- all are legit. We need another sure thing.
So... I see the Hawks in need of 3 guys --- 2 top-4 D-men, one Top-6 forward and a goalie who can take Crow's spot 9which we may have in the system already). that takes $ the Hawks will not have. W/o ian infusion of such instant impact guys, the Hawks will be a lot like what they have been +/- not so much.
But, above all.... they need a new coach and a new culture and system --- that could make quite the difference. But i contend the biggest inhibitor for the Hawks becoming again competitive is the insufficient $ to change the roster meaningfully.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Exactly. Which is why I thought it was laughable that someone thinks that you can replace what he is for 1.5m per season.
ColdSteel2
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They need a big piece on D, top pairing guy, can we agree on that? For me, until that guy shows up, this a rebuild. Once he is here, yeah, it can be a quicker retool but we’re talking about the most in demand commodity so I don’t think we can just pencil it in at this point.
Like I said earlier, the D is what is making this team look so much worse than it actually is, I agree on that point.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
You really need to take a look in the mirror at your talent evaluation if you are questioning "if" Forsling will be a top 4 defender. Everything I've seen indicates he's easily a top 4 defender, and possibly a top pairing defender, if he can clean up some of his mistakes.(Which are normal considering he's only 21 years old).
Again... Duncs wasn't Duncs until he was 24-25 years old... I shouldn't have to say this as much as I have this season.
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
Gudbranson just got a three year, twelve million dollar deal. Big, physical defenseman get paid. I'd much rather have Murphy than Gudbranson.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
They do. But you might have that within. Wait and see what your young guys develop into. Snuggy looked good last season before getting hurt. Forsling will likely take steps forward. You have Joker back there too. Why handcuff the team with another large contract for a FA top pairing defender when it may not be necessary? You also have two 1st round picks this season, and quite a few picks in general. Is it 9 now? It's not time to start talking about moving significant pieces in true rebuild fashion.
Blue Liner
Registered User
I agree that top-4 D-men are not overflowing --- you have to pay for them. I think 4-5M for one at least. That is precisely my point.
Now, replacing what Murphy has brought so far can be done for ca. 2M --- and with that you might get a solid 3rd pairing guy and an additional 1.5M to go towards a top4 Guy. I am in no way saying that for 1.5M or 2M you get a Top-4 D-man. What I am saying is that Murphy has not (yet) shown Top-4 quality (at least not an average #4 D-man quality). Replacing what Murphy has brought is not buying up a top-4 D man. What I am saying is Murph has been an average 3rd pairing guy --- and, that can be replaced for ca. 2M or so.
The notion that Murphy could improve a great deal and be a #4 guy of average quality is not unreasonable --- I agree that with a new coach and more time, he might get there.
So all of it is guess work. the Hawks will have to bank on guys like Murph getting much better b/c the $ is not there to bring in proven guys. We have to go on the cheap and hope for the best.
