Trade Deadline Thread (March 3)

[zenthusiast]

How do you know KA had that opportunity? This would rely upon KA knowing what Ottawa was offering prior to BA accepting the Ottawa deal. We have no indications that the Coyotes were shopping their potential deals with other teams around to different suitors.

It's just as likely it got late in discussions and Ottawa said "here is our final offer" and BA accepted it right then.

I don’t know that, but part of successful negotiation is allowing for that potential opportunity. I’m not even saying he should have paid such a price, but it could be done.

 

[Mattilaus]

I like those prospects too but you'd get to keep one of them, plus Rosen and Ostlund and Neuchev and our 23 1st and all the other stuff we have and will have.

And you can acquire a good scoring winger pretty much any time.

And you'd be set at D for a while.

Prospects aren't all worth the same. A Rosen is not worth the same as a Savoie.

I don’t know that, but part of successful negotiation is allowing for that potential opportunity. I’m not even saying he should have paid such a price, but it could be done.

We don't know if it could be done, because we don't know the nature of how BA handled this.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Adams straight-up said that Armstrong wanted more out of Buffalo than they got out of Ottawa. And yes, they wanted our prospects.......and he sure seemed to imply that the guy(s) he was asking for were Savoie and/or Kulich, who were non-starters. And he sure seemed exasperated when confirming that Armstrong was asking more.

not only did the piece of shit want our best prospects, he wanted adds on top of that

-KA probably, tonight while sampling a 94' crayola yellow green*

*not the fat ones, just the normal sized ones

 

[Zman5778]

Even if there’re originally asking that, if you say “I’ll give you exactly what Ottawa’s offering plus another second and a third” they aren’t turning that down.

Listen to the press conference. Sure seemed like Armstrong wasn't interested in our picks much.

I get that you're upset about KA not getting Chychrun, but it sure seems like it wasn't an option unless Savoie and/or Kulich were on the table. Which they weren't, for damned good reason.

 

[boots electric]

Maybe it's as simple as Arizona wanting more picks then prospects.

from Adams' words, it actually sounded like Arizona was more interested in Buffalo's prospects than they were the picks, and that may have been different depending on which team Arizona was having negotiations with.

it speaks to a few notable things for me:

1) teams covet a number of different guys currently in Buffalo's system

2) the degree to which particular teams value certain pieces over other teams always makes the "why didn't we trade for [insert player here]" discussions really difficult

 

[Zman5778]

not only did the piece of shit want our best prospects, he wanted adds on top of that

Sure seemed to me that that is exactly what KA wanted to say.

 

[toddkaz]

Damn Klingberg was traded for scrubs. He could have helped here.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

Listen to the press conference. Sure seemed like Armstrong wasn't interested in our picks much.

I get that you're upset about KA not getting Chychrun, but it sure seems like it wasn't an option unless Savoie and/or Kulich were on the table. Which they weren't, for damned good reason.

I get that those are good prospects, but you're that sure that at their peak they'd be more valuable than a big mobile two way top four defenseman in his prime on a sweet contract?

 

[zenthusiast]

Prospects aren't all worth the same. A Rosen is not worth the same as a Savoie.


We don't know if it could be done, because we don't know the nature of how BA handled this.

Unless Armstrong was physically blocking his ears with his hands, that conditional offer could be made. He’d probably have taken it if KA wanted to offer it.

Listen to the press conference. Sure seemed like Armstrong wasn't interested in our picks much.

I get that you're upset about KA not getting Chychrun, but it sure seems like it wasn't an option unless Savoie and/or Kulich were on the table. Which they weren't, for damned good reason.

I didn’t really want Chychrun, so I can’t say I’m upset about it, but that’s clear spin. They took picks from a team in an almost identical position to the Sabres. Add significant assets to that package and it’s obviously superior.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Unless Armstrong was physically blocking his ears with his hands, that conditional offer could be made. He’d probably have taken it if KA wanted to offer it.


I didn’t really want Chychrun, so I can’t say I’m upset about it, but that’s clear spin. They took picks from a team in an almost identical position to the Sabres. Add significant assets to that package and it’s obviously superior.

I think KA is a pretty straight shooter most of the time and has no reason to spin it, but he certainly wanted the mobs to know why

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

The way I heard it, he asked for a good prospect or something different than the Ottawa offer. Could have been Savoie/Kulich (first rounders from last year having good but not elite D+1 seasons), or could have been and extra pick in addition to our first (assuming ours would end up higher than OTT).

Adams could have done that and neither would have killed us. It sounded like he valued last years picks waaay more than this years first for some reason, even though this is supposed to be a good draft.

 

[Zman5778]

I didn’t really want Chychrun, so I can’t say I’m upset about it, but that’s clear spin. They took picks from a team in an almost identical position to the Sabres. Add significant assets to that package and it’s obviously superior.

The only spin I put on it is assuming Armstrong wanted Savoie and/or Kulich. He confirmed point-blank that Armstrong wanted our prospects. Armstrong was not interested in a package centered around our picks. Offering more picks does not guarantee Armstrong takes our offer. For all we know, KA DID offer more/better picks.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

Prospects aren't all worth the same. A Rosen is not worth the same as a Savoie.

Obviously.

 

[zenthusiast]

I think KA is a pretty straight shooter most of the time and has no reason to spin it, but he certainly wanted the mobs to know why

Outside of the usual PR obligations, I don’t think he’s dishonest or anything

 

[old kummelweck]

KA confirmed that AZ wanted more from the Sabres than they took from Ottawa for Chykrun.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

The Ritchie brothers were traded for each other!

 

[Gras]

not only did the piece of shit want our best prospects, he wanted adds on top of that

-KA probably, tonight while sampling a 94' crayola yellow green*

*not the fat ones, just the normal sized ones

Since when did GMKA become a Marine?

 

[Mattilaus]

Unless Armstrong was physically blocking his ears with his hands, that conditional offer could be made. He’d probably have taken it if KA wanted to offer it.

It would be incredibly stupid for anyone to say, whatever Ottawa offers, I will beat it by a 2nd round pick. That is not how negotiations are done anywhere. Nobody in their right mind would agree to beat an unknown price. The best that would have happened is KA would say, whatever you do, talk to me before you accept anything else.

If he did, there is no guarantee BA honors that. If he didn't it's likely because the ask was still too high prior to the Ottawa offer as literally ever other suitor all dropped out of the running prior to the Ottawa deal and moved on to other deals.

 

[Zman5778]

Adams could have done that and neither would have killed us. It sounded like he valued last years picks waaay more than this years first for some reason, even though this is supposed to be a good draft.

Because none of our recent 1st round picks have depreciated in value in any way. They're likely worth more now than our 2023 1st is.

And you asked earlier if Savoie or Kulich are worth holding onto.....yes, yes they are. We can get another top 4 D somewhere else this offseason or next TDL that doesn't include giving them up. Chychrun isn't the last young top 4 D that will ever be dealt. Hell, he's probably not the last in the calendar year 2023.

 

[Mattilaus]

Obviously.

If that is obvious then why are we acting like we can just jettison savoie because we have a Rosen in the bank still?

 

[zenthusiast]

The only spin I put on it is assuming Armstrong wanted Savoie and/or Kulich. He confirmed point-blank that Armstrong wanted our prospects. Armstrong was not interested in a package centered around our picks. Offering more picks does not guarantee Armstrong takes our offer. For all we know, KA DID offer more/better picks.

That’s a bargaining position. To use a simpler trading analogy, he might have preferred the goods he valued at say 100 dollars at first, but ended up accepting 75 in cash from Ottawa via draft picks. If the Sabres offer 90 there, he’d have to be a petulant fool not to accept it.

 

[Taro Tsujimoto]

 

[zenthusiast]

It would be incredibly stupid for anyone to say, whatever Ottawa offers, I will beat it by a 2nd round pick. That is not how negotiations are done anywhere. Nobody in their right mind would agree to beat an unknown price. The best that would have happened is KA would say, whatever you do, talk to me before you accept anything else.

If he did, there is no guarantee BA honors that. If he didn't it's likely because the ask was still too high prior to the Ottawa offer as literally ever other suitor all dropped out of the running prior to the Ottawa deal and moved on to other deals.

Sure, it’s a hypothetical and nobody says “I’ll give you a lot more than whatever your best offer is.”

 

[Jacob582]

How do you know KA had that opportunity? This would rely upon KA knowing what Ottawa was offering prior to BA accepting the Ottawa deal. We have no indications that the Coyotes were shopping their potential deals with other teams around to different suitors.

It's just as likely it got late in discussions and Ottawa said "here is our final offer" and BA accepted it right then without taking it to KA first.

I agree. How can you match the offer when Armstrong isn't going to tell you what offers he has.

 

[Ace]

The way I heard it, he asked for a good prospect or something different than the Ottawa offer. Could have been Savoie/Kulich (first rounders from last year having good but not elite D+1 seasons), or could have been and extra pick in addition to our first (assuming ours would end up higher than OTT).

Adams could have done that and neither would have killed us. It sounded like he valued last years picks waaay more than this years first for some reason, even though this is supposed to be a good draft.

No player has scored more points in the AHL at 18 than Kulich since 2006. 8 points from now it will be 1998. If he gets another 6 after that it will be no one.

And guess what? Savoie is still the better prospect.

We are talking about top prospects. Ones you don’t move for 2 years of contract. Ones you don’t just get back in your system. Ones you couldn’t get for Chychrun