GDT: TRADE DEADLINE - Pittsburgh Penguins Only

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DesertedPenguin

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Mar 11, 2007
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That is weird after 6 points in his last 4 games and a +6 in those 4 games. What more does a guy need to do to stay in the lineup? Has to be part of a trade? I like everyone else wanted h gone a couple weeks ago but seems a dick move to sit a 4th line player who has outscored anyone on the team over the past 4 games and was the best with a +6 when we had two bad losses during that time.
Maybe Jankowski should have been more consistent earlier in the year. He got passed up by Frederick Gaudreau. Now that the Penguins are getting healthy, someone's gotta sit. Jankowski is the logical choice.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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I think being skeptical is fair. Even as someone who likes toughness to some degree on the roster, I have to admit that knowing how to utilize those players is a bit of a specialized (and one might say "dying") art. So, if we're making a move for players with an edge (again, not just limited to fighters here, but agitators and big hitters too), I want to feel like the coaching staff is going to use them properly, otherwise, don't bother.

That said, there might something to be said for trying a new philosophy for the 4th line simply because we can't replicate what Cullen brought now, and we don't have enough guys with hands and playmaking (even with the flashes Zohorna and Gaudreau have shown) to ice a 4th line that's capable of being that kind of line on a consistent basis. But that's Sully's call, not the front office's, and I suspect that even if Burke tries to influence it, Sully's not going to budge if he doesn't want to.

For me, it starts with who the Front Office brings in. Get quality. Go with your philosophy too, but not everyone on the line needs to live it. Not everyone on classic Sully lines was a flyer. Raw speed on guys who weren't good enough stay in. Hexturke needs to follow the same. Raw physicality isn't enough. Not everyone needs to be a big hitter or agitator. Support the guys who are with the guys needed for them to have a hockey impact. Look at Reaves. Beyond Sully just not liking his agitating, he was just part of shit when with Rowney and Kuhnhackl. The line could bang but couldn't play. Even just injecting a guy like Sheahan there made a massive difference. First and foremost the fourth line has to not put the stars under pressure by getting outplayed all the time. Then you're looking for contributions - be that abrasiveness or on the scoreboard (preferably both).

If they give Sully - or maybe a new guy - quality, the rest should follow. Maybe it'll need to be a new guy if Sully doesn't look a guy who stirs too much shit, maybe it's Sully if he wins and it's a big hitter who can keep up with fast paced hockey. If it is Sully, I hope Hexturke fully embrace his system with the idea of returning it to B2B levels of chippiness and courage, and being willing to spend the price for guys who can play it and boom - although that's more of an up the line-up thing. But on the fourth line - just find units that work, that have quality, and whatever the philosophy is. I know finding cheap quality's not easy in the NHL but it's that or watch it fail.

I guess I've got no reason to think Hexturke will do anything different. But I'm not sure I've got a reason to think they won't do something different too, particularly when Burke's talking.
 
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KIRK

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Why hasn't sleepy done anything yet?

Tantrum-Throwing-a-fit-Veruca-Salt-GIF.gif
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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I actually think there's some validity in criticizing Sullivan for taking Jankowski out right now. Even ignoring his stats, Jankowski has one of the best xGF% among forwards for the Penguins. So it is a little odd to see him yanked after producing 6 points in 5 games with great analytics, but at the same point, he put himself in that position by being shitty for the other 35 games of this season.

If he's a guy that's going to coast and play like crap when he has a safe roster spot, and then only turn it on when his spot is threatened, he shouldn't have a spot to begin with.
 
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HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
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For me, it starts with who the Front Office brings in. Get quality. Go with your philosophy too, but not everyone on the line needs to live it. Not everyone on classic Sully lines was a flyer. Raw speed on guys who weren't good enough stay in. Hexturke needs to follow the same. Raw physicality isn't enough. Not everyone needs to be a big hitter or agitator. Support the guys who are with the guys needed for them to have a hockey impact. Look at Reaves. Beyond Sully just not liking his agitating, he was just part of shit when with Rowney and Kuhnhackl. The line could bang but couldn't play. Even just injecting a guy like Sheahan there made a massive difference. First and foremost the fourth line has to not put the stars under pressure by getting outplayed all the time. Then you're looking for contributions - be that abrasiveness or on the scoreboard (preferably both).

If they give Sully - or maybe a new guy - quality, the rest should follow. Maybe it'll need to be a new guy if Sully doesn't look a guy who stirs too much shit, maybe it's Sully if he wins and it's a big hitter who can keep up with fast paced hockey. If it is Sully, I hope Hexturke fully embrace his system with the idea of returning it to B2B levels of chippiness and courage, and being willing to spend the price for guys who can play it and boom - although that's more of an up the line-up thing. But on the fourth line - just find units that work, that have quality, and whatever the philosophy is. I know finding cheap quality's not easy in the NHL but it's that or watch it fail.

I guess I've got no reason to think Hexturke will do anything different. But I'm not sure I've got a reason to think they won't do something different too, particularly when Burke's talking.

A big part of that too is Rowney and Kuhnhackl were just not very good either. They barely worked with Cullen, let alone without him. Reaves is doing just fine in Las Vegas and is putting up 15-20 points a season, but Vegas uses him a bit better. I just think that if Sully isn't going to play one of the few legit enforcers who can take a shift and put up some points, then he's not going to play the lesser versions anyhow. :laugh:

That's what I mean about using these guys in the right way. You have to understand what their limits and benefits are, and I don't think Sully sees agitators or big guys as being effective, rightly or wrongly.
 
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Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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A big part of that too is Rowney and Kuhnhackl were just not very good either. They barely worked with Cullen, let alone without him. Reaves is doing just fine in Las Vegas and is putting up 15-20 points a season, but Vegas uses him a bit better. I just think that if Sully isn't going to play one of the few legit enforcers who can take a shift and put up some points, then he's not going to play the lesser versions anyhow. :laugh:

That's what I mean about using these guys in the right way. You have to understand what their limits and benefits are, and I don't think Sully sees agitators or big guys as being effective, rightly or wrongly.

Right, and I'm not trying to say different (although Rowney's done about as well in Anaheim as Reaves has in Vegas iirc). That goes right to the core of my point - quality. Rutherford handed Sully a pail of shit for his 4th line that season, both in terms of quality (like, they're not bad players, but no one's fourth line great) and fit. Sully was right to use that line sparingly and Reaves was, with hindsight, doomed from the get go. He was probably extra doomed given the clash between Reaves being a Sheriff and Sully being Just Play, but the hockey fit wasn't there.

And I think that's what Sully cares about first and foremost - not the physicality, or the agitating, or whatever - but the hockey effectiveness. Give him physicality that works hockey wise and he'll use it. Or so I believe he believes, and so I believe a coach should believe.
 
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WheresRamziAbid

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Oct 31, 2013
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That would come off as a lot wittier except for the direction of the trend line over those six seasons.

That trandline can continuue for about 50 more years until its below average for stanley cups

Heres a chill pill. God forbid we underperform in too random 4 game samples. One fresh off a long pandemic layoff.
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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That trandline can continuue for about 50 more years until its below average for stanley cups

Heres a chill pill. God forbid we underperform in too random 4 game samples. One fresh off a long pandemic layoff.

My apologies for spiking the kool aid. :laugh:
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
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If/when we bottom out in the 1st round again, what's the excuse du jour? We've had injuries, pandemic, roster turnover, etc. in recent years. I suppose we could go back to injuries. That one's a classic.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
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That trandline can continuue for about 50 more years until its below average for stanley cups

Heres a chill pill. God forbid we underperform in too random 4 game samples. One fresh off a long pandemic layoff.
Everyone had the pandemic layoff. We lost to the 24th best team; that’s a fireable offense. If Michael Jackson and Mario didn’t have money issues, Sully would have been canned.

The isles series was not a fluke sample; they would have destroyed us 90 out of 100 games.
 

WheresRamziAbid

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
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Everyone had the pandemic layoff. We lost to the 24th best team; that’s a fireable offense. If Michael Jackson and Mario didn’t have money issues, Sully would have been canned.

The isles series was not a fluke sample; they would have destroyed us 90 out of 100 games.

Yada yada yada. Different day same story with you.

Has anyone even considered that some times over small timeframes even good reams play bad.

Last i check the unstoppable lightning got swept by the jackets. Then won the cup a year later.

So that coach suck or is he good now?
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
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The "Sullivan is a good coach actually" hill is a weird one to die on since he's been as responsible as any single factor for this team's downturn in recent years. One example was his decision to not only dress, but consistently play JJ-Schultz (as a pairing no less!) in important situations last playoff. It almost singlehandedly torpedoed this team against the Habs.
 

Turin

Erik Karlsson is good
Feb 27, 2018
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Weird place to bitch super negatively when the team has been top 5 in the league since JR resigned.
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
51,216
A trade deadline eve poem in @Pens x's honor (@ColePens too, LOL) . . .

'Twas the night before deadline and all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
The player pics were hung on the board with care
In the hopes that Sleepy GM soon would be there.
The HF children were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of Miles Wood danced in their heads . . .
 
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WheresRamziAbid

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
7,286
2,105
The "Sullivan is a good coach actually" hill is a weird one to die on since he's been as responsible as any single factor for this team's downturn in recent years. One example was his decision to not only dress, but consistently play JJ-Schultz (as a pairing no less!) in important situations last playoff. It almost singlehandedly torpedoed this team against the Habs.

Yeah such a weird hill, calling a good coach a good coach because the team had a bad series or two. Two Stanley cups really doesn't buy much these days. Or maybe people are just jackasses
 
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