GDT: Trade Deadline Discussion

[KingsFan7824]

so Blake is unable to move dead weight, that much has been confirmed by him. It's just too damn hard

yea Robbie, no one said your ****ing job would be easy

he gets rid of the easy contracts, gets stuck with Lewis, Toffoli, Kovalchuk, Phaneuf, Quick, Martinez, etc

how many armchair GMs can trade a Fantenberg for a 4th?

What league do you think the NHL is? How many GMs get rid of bad contracts all the time? The vast majority of trades involve easily moveable contracts. Failing that, it's Gaborik/Phaneuf where it's one bad contract for another. How many playoff wins do the Kings have with Martinez as a top 4D? Maybe nobody wants a soon to be 32 year old 3rd pair D locked in for another 2 seasons?

In a hard cap league, if you try to get around the cap by handing out term, you don't get out of that easily. It may work for a little while, but it's going to catch up to you at some point. The first mistake was giving a goalie a 10 year contract at the peak of his career. Give Quick the $58m over 7 years instead, and while it's an $8.29m cap hit, he could be easier to trade today, or over the summer. But, DL had to get cute, and he got exactly 1 year out of Quick's current contract where the team contended. Even funnier, he got exactly 0 years out of Brown's current contract where the team contended. Same with Carter. His contract was great for a while, but there's a point where it became a problem, and it was a problem before 2017. When Blake got the job, Carter was already 32, with 5 years left. How many 32 year old's with 5 guaranteed years remaining are traded around the league? It's going to be a short list.

The cap comes calling for everyone eventually. The only way around it is to get rid of guys early. Always, and without exception. Nobody can get a 3rd contract. You don't re-sign Quick in 2012, you trade him at the 2012 draft, coming off the Conn Smythe, with 1 year left on his $1.8m cap hit. He's never been as good as he was that year. You trade Brown at the 2012 draft, after coming off the best stretch of hockey he has ever played. He wasn't going to ever be 2012 playoff Brown again, and he hasn't been.

 

[Herby]

The long term contracts for less of a cap hit ended up being a horrific strategy.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

What league do you think the NHL is? How many GMs get rid of bad contracts all the time? The vast majority of trades involve easily moveable contracts. Failing that, it's Gaborik/Phaneuf where it's one bad contract for another. How many playoff wins do the Kings have with Martinez as a top 4D? Maybe nobody wants a soon to be 32 year old 3rd pair D locked in for another 2 seasons?

In a hard cap league, if you try to get around the cap by handing out term, you don't get out of that easily. It may work for a little while, but it's going to catch up to you at some point. The first mistake was giving a goalie a 10 year contract at the peak of his career. Give Quick the $58m over 7 years instead, and while it's an $8.29m cap hit, he could be easier to trade today, or over the summer. But, DL had to get cute, and he got exactly 1 year out of Quick's current contract where the team contended. Even funnier, he got exactly 0 years out of Brown's current contract where the team contended. Same with Carter. His contract was great for a while, but there's a point where it became a problem, and it was a problem before 2017. When Blake got the job, Carter was already 32, with 5 years left. How many 32 year old's with 5 guaranteed years remaining are traded around the league? It's going to be a short list.

The cap comes calling for everyone eventually. The only way around it is to get rid of guys early. Always, and without exception. Nobody can get a 3rd contract. You don't re-sign Quick in 2012, you trade him at the 2012 draft, coming off the Conn Smythe, with 1 year left on his $1.8m cap hit. He's never been as good as he was that year. You trade Brown at the 2012 draft, after coming off the best stretch of hockey he has ever played. He wasn't going to ever be 2012 playoff Brown again, and he hasn't been.

Well there were rumors surrounding Carter, Kovalchuk, and Lewis. These rumors are not from Eklund. They were from various sources. This tells me the interest was still there for these three. Isn't that what you need to get in a conversation with a GM? Interest?

Ok, so now what? Blake didn't like the conditions? Like holding some salary? So he rather just keep the entire contract than to get rid of them at 25-50% retained?

Sure ok, still not my kind of GM

 

[King'sPawn]

It's nice to see that I have secret admirers who obsess over me and every word I have to type. It's nice to feel wanted. Unlike the Kings.

But don't be disappointed, I'll continue shutting up belligerent fans.

FWIW, I'm sure it's more about the message instead of the messenger.

You're still the sarcastic pain in the ass I've always known and loved <3

On another note related to the deadline... I have to admit I'm very impressed Blake managed to get a 4th/conditional 3rd for Fantenberg. I thought that would be a Future Considerations move.

 

[Bandit]

So who's gonna renew their season tickets next season?

People still have season seats? Ouch.

 

[tonellisghost]

This one is 100% all on Rob Blake. Deal Fantenberg because HE was the problem what with his GIANT cap hit and term...... Not to mention that we had two offers that we decided not to consider (the one on Marty and the one on Dion). Not that they were anything great but we can use a second round pick and the 4rth too. Not to mention that cap reduction. Meh, who cares. Another shinning example of misdirection and flim flamming from our upper mgmt.

 

[kovacro]

This one is 100% all on Rob Blake. Deal Fantenberg because HE was the problem what with his GIANT cap hit and term...... Not to mention that we had two offers that we decided not to consider (the one on Marty and the one on Dion). Not that they were anything great but we can use a second round pick and the 4rth too. Not to mention that cap reduction. Meh, who cares. Another shinning example of misdirection and flim flamming from our upper mgmt.

Are you saying someone was offering to take on Dion today for a pick? I’m assuming retention.

Blake passed on that? Jeebus.

TG, apologies if I forgot but you have some connections within the organization, no? It’s been a few years so I don’t recall.

 

[DoktorJeep]

All the apologists here making excuses on behalf of Blake & Co. need to quit licking the hinds of ex players who never brought a cup to LA.

The NYR are a franchise who are a lot like the Kings, but are ahead in their rebuild.

Last two seasons, the Rangers jettisoned way more pieces than the Kings, and are turning their roster over with a purpose.

2018

NYR - Rick Nash, Ryan McDonagh
LA - Gaborik

2019

NYR - Zuccarello, Hayes
LA - Pearson, Muzzin

Given the baggage that is Phaneuf, that trade for Gaborik was 1 step forward, 10 steps backwards.

D+ report card for Blake

 

[LAKings88]

Reinforced why not to take work off for deadline day.

Hoping the draft is better.

Disappointed young players won’t get more opportunities this year.

Need vets to improve value while still tanking

Not overall surprised by today.

 

[damacles1156]

Like Brian Burke says all time when people ask him about being the GM of a bad roster.

Burke "When you have a bad roster, everyone throws you boat anchors. No one is interested in helping you out".

 

[Fat Elvis]

Fantenberg wasn’t the problem this season, he was actually one of the most positive points of this season. A Ufa at seasons end and maybe he wasn’t interested in resigning at such a discount and so Blake secured a 4th for him. Got no problem with it. They will need to replace him because Ontario doesn’t have the answer.

My problem is the 6-7 other vets completely mailing it in. F them. Except Quick, you’re still my hero. But the rest of you, F em. Yeah, thank you for the cups. But this season and your play are unacceptable. Kopitar, Brown, Toffoli, Carter, Doughty and Forbort can all kiss my bottom. This season is on you, I blame you 100%

 

[KingsFan7824]

Well there were rumors surrounding Carter, Kovalchuk, and Lewis. These rumors are not from Eklund. They were from various sources. This tells me the interest was still there for these three. Isn't that what you need to get in a conversation with a GM? Interest?

Ok, so now what? Blake didn't like the conditions? Like holding some salary? So he rather just keep the entire contract than to get rid of them at 25-50% retained?

Sure ok, still not my kind of GM

Rumors are rumors. That can be anything. Heavy interest, a name in passing, etc.

Retention likely isn't a GMs call. If ownership doesn't want to retain over multiple seasons, for guys to play somewhere else, then what can you do? Maybe ownership doesn't care, and it is Blake's call. I don't know.

It's rare for 30+ year old guys with 2/3/4 years left on their deals to be traded, and the team trading them to come out ahead. It's happened here and there. Luongo ended up in Florida(where he had a previous connection). Toronto got out of Phaneuf by taking a number of bad contracts back for a year or so. Quick hasn't played anywhere else like Luongo did. If Blake can get 2 or 3 crappy contracts that end after next year for Carter or Kovalchuk, and that's all they get out of it(so no picks or prospects), I'm all for it. The tricky part being, of course, Kovalchuk has a full NMC through next year, and Carter may or may not leave the sport if he gets traded.

I'm just not expecting Blake to do anything that other GMs don't tend to do. Nobody wants old/unproductive/expensive players, under most conditions.

 

[BigKing]

So who's gonna renew their season tickets next season?

Will definitely renew my Die-Hard seats since the price is still too good to give up, even if it is to just be able to have them for future, better seasons. Not sure about the other tickets.

I don't think it can be worse than this season. New coach and hopefully some young guys to watch.

 

[Herby]

All the apologists here making excuses on behalf of Blake & Co. need to quit licking the hinds of ex players who never brought a cup to LA.

The NYR are a franchise who are a lot like the Kings, but are ahead in their rebuild.

Last two seasons, the Rangers jettisoned way more pieces than the Kings, and are turning their roster over with a purpose.

2018

NYR - Rick Nash, Ryan McDonagh
LA - Gaborik

2019

NYR - Zuccarello, Hayes
LA - Pearson, Muzzin

Given the baggage that is Phaneuf, that trade for Gaborik was 1 step forward, 10 steps backwards.

D+ report card for Blake

I'd like to think I am far from a Blake defender but...

The Phaneuf trade was just a swap out of 1 horrific contract for another. No guarantee that Gaborik would have had suffered a career ending injury with the Kings. I wouldn't have done it because I think Gaborik was a better player, but there was an element of bad luck.

I don't really think Blake has done a good job, but the reality is, no matter who the GM was it was going to take until 2022 to fix the mess that was left behind. You can't just make the bad contracts disappear or make young talent appear out of thin air.

 

[KingsFan7824]

This one is 100% all on Rob Blake. Deal Fantenberg because HE was the problem what with his GIANT cap hit and term...... Not to mention that we had two offers that we decided not to consider (the one on Marty and the one on Dion). Not that they were anything great but we can use a second round pick and the 4rth too. Not to mention that cap reduction. Meh, who cares. Another shinning example of misdirection and flim flamming from our upper mgmt.

You're going to have to expand on your nuggets of info.

Fantenberg wasn't traded because he was a problem. He was traded because he was a UFA, and most likely has very little future in the NHL.

All the apologists here making excuses on behalf of Blake & Co. need to quit licking the hinds of ex players who never brought a cup to LA.

The NYR are a franchise who are a lot like the Kings, but are ahead in their rebuild.

Last two seasons, the Rangers jettisoned way more pieces than the Kings, and are turning their roster over with a purpose.

2018

NYR - Rick Nash, Ryan McDonagh
LA - Gaborik

2019

NYR - Zuccarello, Hayes
LA - Pearson, Muzzin

Given the baggage that is Phaneuf, that trade for Gaborik was 1 step forward, 10 steps backwards.

D+ report card for Blake

Nash was a UFA, and McDonagh was younger last year than anything the Kings were going to trade this year. Zuccarello and Hayes, both UFA's. Pearson playing like total crap, and Muzzin...what's wrong with the Muzzin trade? What were you expecting for a guy we called Muffin due to his odd mistakes?

The only reason the Rangers got rid of guys quicker is because their guys were UFA's quicker.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

So who's gonna renew their season tickets next season?

You indirectly bring up a good point, I wonder if AEG/Luc hamstrung Blake at the deadline. Start trading guys like Clifford and Lewis, and those Cup runs are a distant memory ( I know it’s already a distant memory but look at it from AEG’s perspective.)

 

[Bandit]

You indirectly bring up a good point, I wonder if AEG/Luc hamstrung Blake at the deadline. Start trading guys like Clifford and Lewis, and those Cup runs are a distant memory ( I know it’s already a distant memory but look at it from AEG’s perspective.)

I suppose it's possible but you would have to be pretty f***ing obtuse at this point to be a season ticket holder and need someone like Clifford or Lewis to get traded to let you know it's over.

 

[jfont]

something happened to that guy

got married, addicted to sniffing glue, i dunno... maybe Bowie's passing was hard on him

but I miss the old witty and poised Ziggy as well

not to pile on ziggy but I see this as well. a lot more turd thrown by him these past couple of years... is it the team? is it more personal? is it this president in office? who knows..

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I suppose it's possible but you would have to be pretty ****ing obtuse at this point to be a season ticket holder and need someone like Clifford or Lewis to get traded to let you know it's over.

Yes but my point is maybe AEG/Luc are in complete denial over the direction this team is going. You have to remember less than a year ago these guys thought they were contenders and signed Kovalchuk to a three year contract that nobody else was offering.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I'd like to think I am far from a Blake defender but...

The Phaneuf trade was just a swap out of 1 horrific contract for another. No guarantee that Gaborik would have had suffered a career ending injury with the Kings. I wouldn't have done it because I think Gaborik was a better player, but there was an element of bad luck.

I don't really think Blake has done a good job, but the reality is, no matter who the GM was it was going to take until 2022 to fix the mess that was left behind. You can't just make the bad contracts disappear or make young talent appear out of thin air.

Gaborik is and was a better buyout candidate than Phaneuf. It’s the Kings luck that Gaborik is racking up LTIR cap savings while we get to see Phaneuf rack up minuses live.

You're going to have to expand on your nuggets of info.

Fantenberg wasn't traded because he was a problem. He was traded because he was a UFA, and most likely has very little future in the NHL.



Nash was a UFA, and McDonagh was younger last year than anything the Kings were going to trade this year. Zuccarello and Hayes, both UFA's. Pearson playing like total crap, and Muzzin...what's wrong with the Muzzin trade? What were you expecting for a guy we called Muffin due to his odd mistakes?

The only reason the Rangers got rid of guys quicker is because their guys were UFA's quicker.

Nash retired this year and isn’t too different from Carter. McDonagh and Muzzin are a wash IMO, and two guys in the same ball park are Zuccarello and Pearson. I’d argue Hayes and Toffoli are ball park comparables.

I haven’t compared the returns, because you’re right that there are enough nuances to say that the Kings arent exactly like the Rangers.

But the larger point is that it is possible to turn over a roster like the Kings aggressively.

 

[Herby]

I would love to know who was offering what for Phaneuf.

Probably a bad team looking to pickup a draft pick to take on his deal.

I'm actually ok with keeping Phaneuf next year, the Kings should be awful again and he helps the tank and is probably good in the room. If Blake thinks the Kings can contend for a playoff spot in 2021 then he can buyout Phaneuf.

I just couldn't imagine a contending team that would have any interest in this guy, both for on-ice and cap reasons.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The only way anyone offered anything for Phaneuf is if it was another horrendous contract, like Lucic. And we don’t know with any certainty if that’s true whatsoever.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

not to pile on ziggy but I see this as well. a lot more turd thrown by him these past couple of years... is it the team? is it more personal? is it this president in office? who knows..

It’s my fault for responding to incorrigible fans. I shouldn’t even bother with them. I guess pointing out this team’s faults while also remaining fair and critical is now thought of as highly offensive and bothersome material for some of you thin skinned, sensitive types.

How about we focus on discussing hockey and the current and future state of the team? How is that for productive discussion? I admire all the attention I’m getting, but I’d rather talk hockey.

Or is pointing out the faults with this team make me cynical? Funny thing is, I’ve also come to the team’s defense when it comes to moving forward and have hopes things will get better with what’s to come, but even that seems to bother some posters around here.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

There were some Flames fans hoping that he was the one traded to them today instead of Fantenberg. No joke.

 

[DoktorJeep]

If the deal was some combo of Kempe or Iafallo or a first round pick or Kupari / Clague / JAD / Thomas / Vilardi maybe and more than 50% retained salary, then I pass on moving Phaneuf. Anything else reasonable and you’d be stupid not to get a deal done.