GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread -- To trade or not to trade...

[Kurtz]

Tavares maybe no because it was UFA (although he's worth 9) but Matthews on a shorter deal at 10 million per (11.5 is fair if it were 8 years) and Marner for 9.0 is a fair valuation for me.

The problem is if Matthews didn't agree to $10 (and he wouldn't), he hits RFA and 100% gets offer-sheeted. And then you have to pay him $13/14 per. Best American player in the world - he had all the leverage.

So we couldn't do it with JT, Matthews or Willy, who got a fair deal. So really only Marner is costing us 1-2 mil more than he should.

 

[ToneDog]

The problem is if Matthews didn't agree to $10 (and he wouldn't), he hits RFA and 100% gets offer-sheeted. And then you have to pay him $13/14 per. Best American player in the world - he had all the leverage.

So we couldn't do it with JT, Matthews or Willy, who got a fair deal. So really only Marner is costing us 1-2 mil more than he should.

McDavid > Matty > Eichel. Matty should have fallen somewhere between 10 and 12 but for 8 years.

That OS would have been worst case scenario and even so, I'll take the 4 first round picks and all that cap space rather than being where we are today cap wise.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Let’s say you clear 7 million by having Matthews, Marner, Tavares 2 million a year cheaper and Nylander 1 million a year cheaper.

None of those players would ever agree to be so severely underpaid, so your cap space is really quite irrelevant because we'd be back to tanking.

 

[Puckstuff]

The problem is if Matthews didn't agree to $10 (and he wouldn't), he hits RFA and 100% gets offer-sheeted. And then you have to pay him $13/14 per. Best American player in the world - he had all the leverage.

So we couldn't do it with JT, Matthews or Willy, who got a fair deal. So really only Marner is costing us 1-2 mil more than he should.

If Matthews accepted an offer sheet or demanded more then McDavid I wouldn’t even want him. Can’t let players hold you hostage.

 

[Dekes For Days]

McDavid > Matty > Eichel.

At time of signing their respective post-ELC contracts, McDavid >= Matthews >> Eichel, and that's how the contracts played out.

That OS would have been worst case scenario and even so, I'll take the 4 first round picks and all that cap space rather than being where we are today cap wise.

Four mediocre 1st round picks for one of the best players in the cap era through his prime is a horrible return. Our "cap issues" are wildly exaggerated, and any difficulties that do exist are a result of the pandemic, not signing those contracts.

 

[Sypher04]

McDavid > Matty > Eichel. Matty should have fallen somewhere between 10 and 12 but for 8 years.

That OS would have been worst case scenario and even so, I'll take the 4 first round picks and all that cap space rather than being where we are today cap wise.

Absolutely f***ing not.

Matthews is a legitimate superstar and you get zero garauntees with even 1st round picks that you get anything remotely approaching him again.

The Leafs are not backed into any kind of corner. Every single contract they have is moveable from a player vs contract perspective (obviously there are some trade clauses to navigate) when/if they decide this doesn't work.

Accepting picks to let Matthews walk to an offersheet would have been monumentally stupid.

 

[ToneDog]

Absolutely f***ing not.

Matthews is a legitimate superstar and you get zero garauntees with even 1st round picks that you get anything remotely approaching him again.

The Leafs are not backed into any kind of corner. Every single contract they have is moveable from a player vs contract perspective (obviously there are some trade clauses to navigate) when/if they decide this doesn't work.

Accepting picks to let Matthews walk to an offersheet would have been monumentally stupid.

You sound like the Leafs did, panicked that he would get an outrageous offer and signed him to their own outrageous offer. No doubt Matty is a unicorn but if you can't surround him with enough of a supporting cast because you are capped out, what good is it ?? I take 4 firsts before I match a ridiculous number. Last I looked the last 5 SC winners did not have a $14-$15m player.

 

[BlueForever75]

Domi back to Montreal? True or not.

 

[Fogelhund]

Domi back to Montreal? True or not.

Eklund rumour so.....

 

[myleafs]

The leafs big 4 is costing them. The over payments of those 4 is the difference between having an elite 3rd line and not having one. Let’s say you clear 7 million by having Matthews, Marner, Tavares 2 million a year cheaper and Nylander 1 million a year cheaper. You don’t re-sign Simmonds (900 k) and trade Kerfoot (3.5) and you have 11.5 million total cap space. You could literally have afford a McCaan-Danault-Goodrow 3rd line which would destroy Tampa and the rest of the league and you would still have the big 4, Ritchie and Bunting in tact giving us the best top 6 and the best 3rd and the best 4th line Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev. The small margin of overpaying the big 4 is the difference between being a contender running the league right now and being average. I’ve worked out a hundred different ways, this team just cannot be competitive with the big 4 getting paid those amounts. They need big changes not small.

Not saying your wrong but it wasn't the depth that hurt the leafs against the habs, it was the big ticket items.

 

[Byron Bitz]

The problem is if Matthews didn't agree to $10 (and he wouldn't), he hits RFA and 100% gets offer-sheeted. And then you have to pay him $13/14 per. Best American player in the world - he had all the leverage.

So we couldn't do it with JT, Matthews or Willy, who got a fair deal. So really only Marner is costing us 1-2 mil more than he should.

I agree with this

 

[MapleLeafs77]

You sound like the Leafs did, panicked that he would get an outrageous offer and signed him to their own outrageous offer. No doubt Matty is a unicorn but if you can't surround him with enough of a supporting cast because you are capped out, what good is it ?? I take 4 firsts before I match a ridiculous number. Last I looked the last 5 SC winners did not have a $14-$15m player.

Im fine with that thinking for any player other than Matty. Tavares should be 8 mill realistically tops. Marner is 9 mill tops. Willy is fine with his deal currently.

It all goes back to Tavares honestly….not sure we needed him with Matthews. Especially at that price. We needed to also play hard bargain on Marner. I don’t care if he wanted Matthews money. He isn’t Matthews. Never will be. That is where our money issues came from in my eyes.

Matthews gets a blank cheque like McDavid or Crosby or Mackinnon (will) or Ovechkin. You dont lose those types of players for draft picks. If you do then blow up the team at that point and sell everyone.

Our problem is thinking that the other 2 11 mill players are close to Matthews….they arent.

 

[Mickey Marner]

If our primary call ups are waiver exempt, (or we're deep enough in tweeners that we dont care about some waiver wire attrition) i think theres an argument to be made for leveraging the proximity to the marlies and running barebones when possible IF we've budgetted for complete roster flexibility and call ups when we need them. If we left ourselves with the 1.7 needed to carry semyonov and lilly, but only needed the spares half of the time, thats 850k left open, which is something like a 2.5m player at the deadline, plus the coaching flexibilty to do whatever we want through the season

I could understand it for deadline space, but we've been so tight with our short roster that we slide right into the LTIR, which largely negates any possible gains of the strategy. Seems like something that works in theory within very narrow parameters, but poorly in practice with a wide array of potential hiccups along the road.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[kb]

So hopefully this keeps the idiots at bay about Matthews leaving.....

 

[Dreakmur]

Four mediocre 1st round picks for one of the best players in the cap era through his prime is a horrible return.

Agreed.

Our "cap issues" are wildly exaggerated

Exaggerated by some, and diminished by others. Those contracts have placed us in a difficult spot - not impossible to build a contending team, but certainly more difficult.

The issues we face are less about overpaid players are more about poorly balanced roster construction.

and any difficulties that do exist are a result of the pandemic, not signing those contracts.

Every team is facing the exact same restrictions, so that's BS. I'm not sure the pandemic has had much effect on many rosters, since limited cap space drives down the cost of contracts. Sure we'd have more cap space to play with, but so would everyone, and that drives the costs up.

If we had more cap space, Brodie gets more then 5. If we had more cap space, Ritchie and Bunting get more. Do we really get to add better players? I'm not sure we do.

 

[pspot]

Chara should go back to Ottawa but would love to see Leafs bring him in
can swat these brats in to place

 

[shortfuze]

So hopefully this keeps the idiots at bay about Matthews leaving.....

I’d like to see Quebec get another team but they aren’t getting their team back they would be getting another team.

sorry, just nitpicking.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The problem is if Matthews didn't agree to $10 (and he wouldn't), he hits RFA and 100% gets offer-sheeted. And then you have to pay him $13/14 per. Best American player in the world - he had all the leverage.

So we couldn't do it with JT, Matthews or Willy, who got a fair deal. So really only Marner is costing us 1-2 mil more than he should.

Who's offer sheeting Matthews for 13-14 million?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Those contracts have placed us in a difficult spot - not impossible to build a contending team, but certainly more difficult.

The contracts did not put us in a difficult spot. They meant that we kept/gained our superstar players, which puts us in a better spot. Our cap position would be perfectly fine if not for the pandemic. The pandemic flat cap put us in a more difficult spot, not the contracts.

The issues we face are less about overpaid players are more about poorly balanced roster construction.

There's nothing wrong with our roster construction.

Every team is facing the exact same restrictions, so that's BS.

Every team is not impacted in the same way. Every team did not sign the majority of their core right before. Though yes, what many people seem to miss is that most teams are having cap difficulties all the same.

 

[fahad203]

Who's offer sheeting Matthews for 13-14 million?

Easily Arizona. They had all kinds of caps space and they been needing a brand name player since Doan left. Even Doan wasn't a house hold name as Matthews would be
Every Arizona based business goes after Matthews with sponsorships, deals. Americans are big on that stuff

Coyotes need a big name player more than any team in the league. To have someone from your own barn, that would have set that team on fire
Americans love their own. The TV coverages, the radio and podcasts, online coverage that Arizona and Matthews would have gotten woudl have been insane

ESPN and NBC would have signed 10+ games a year for Arizona. That would have given more exposure, sponsors and ads

Matthews going to Arizona would have been same as McDavid coming to Toronto. It would have been huge
Instead of paying Keller and OEL. They would have loved to just pay Matthews 13-15 mil range. Problem solved

Ironically, Matthews would have had a bigger impact than those two

We are being spoiled by Matthews. I criticize him, lets not forget who he is. He's generational as we had in decades. Not since maybe Frank M have we drafted a player like him

Matthews we needed to keep and we should always keep.

 

[Dreakmur]

The contracts did not put us in a difficult spot. They meant that we kept/gained our superstar players, which puts us in a better spot. Our cap position would be perfectly fine if not for the pandemic. The pandemic flat cap put us in a more difficult spot, not the contracts.

The pandemic might have actually helped us. As I said, and you of course edited out, limited cap space drove down the contracts signed after the flat cap. That allowed us to fill out the roster for much less money than otherwise would have been possible.

There's nothing wrong with our roster construction.

Perfect roster, but can't win a round....

Every team is not impacted in the same way. Every team did not sign the majority of their core right before. Though yes, what many people seem to miss is that most teams are having cap difficulties all the same.

The exact same, no. Substantially similar, yes.

 

[Metroid]

Easily Arizona. They had all kinds of caps space and they been needing a brand name player since Doan left. Even Doan wasn't a house hold name as Matthews would be
Every Arizona based business goes after Matthews with sponsorships, deals. Americans are big on that stuff

Coyotes need a big name player more than any team in the league. To have someone from your own barn, that would have set that team on fire
Americans love their own. The TV coverages, the radio and podcasts, online coverage that Arizona and Matthews would have gotten woudl have been insane

ESPN and NBC would have signed 10+ games a year for Arizona. That would have given more exposure, sponsors and ads

Matthews going to Arizona would have been same as McDavid coming to Toronto. It would have been huge
Instead of paying Keller and OEL. They would have loved to just pay Matthews 13-15 mil range. Problem solved

Ironically, Matthews would have had a bigger impact than those two

We are being spoiled by Matthews. I criticize him, lets not forget who he is. He's generational as we had in decades. Not since maybe Frank M have we drafted a player like him

Matthews we needed to keep and we should always keep.

Arizona can have all the cap space they want. But a team needs an arena to play the game....

 

[fahad203]

Arizona can have all the cap space they want. But a team needs an arena to play the game....

Sure. That has nothing to do with an offer sheet
Isles been needing a home to play for a while.

2 years ago, that wasn't the case. In fact I would argue if would have payed good money for Auston, get Arizona mayors to sign off on their franchise player for an Arena

Go back 20 years ago, that's exactly what Mario did. Coming back to save the franchise when Pens went bankrupt twice if I am not mistaken

 

[Dreakmur]

Sure. That has nothing to do with an offer sheet
Isles been needing a home to play for a while.

2 years ago, that wasn't the case. In fact I would argue if would have payed good money for Auston, get Arizona mayors to sign off on their franchise player for an Arena

Go back 20 years ago, that's exactly what Mario did. Coming back to save the franchise when Pens went bankrupt twice if I am not mistaken

Arizona failed to meet payroll last summer. There is no way they could have made a bonus-laden contract work.