Trade and Free Agency Thread - C'mon More Trades!

[showtime8]

Personally I think that if we're moving Rielly it's either

A- to move away from the idea of a "Rielly" (high offense star level D man) and embrace a more balanced (both cap and skillset) d-corps
B- to clear the path for Sandin to fill Rielly's shoes with an ELC year and 2nd contract

Technically it could be both, but the common factor is that with either reasoning we're not spending Rielly type money on his replacement, but then we should just keep Rielly.

I would say that this off-season you have to make the decision on Rielly - extend him or trade for assets. The two main factors is who gets taken in the expansion draft and what happens with the goaltending situation. If Kerfoot, Holl or Dermott are taken, then you get an additional 900k - 3.5mill in salary to work with.

But I guess the question should be, what kind of value do you put on a 27 defenseman who is good, but not elite. Given his playing time, we should probably expect a couple 45-50 point seasons in a full 82 game season over the course of the next 3 years. So, if Torey Krug got 6.5 mill x 7 years, then Rielly will likely get that or more.

 

[stickty111]

I feel like this is the same song and dance as with Mason Marchment, who put up 6 points in his first 9 games and subsequently put up 3 points in his next 21 games in spite of receiving better minutes...

Really, it is the same song and dance for Sam Bennett too. He's had hot streaks before (look at his playoff runs). The issue is that he has just as many, if not more, stretches where he looks like (and is) a healthy scratch.

Kerfoot may not have too many hot streaks, but he's been here for over 100 games now and he has rarely, if ever, looked like a healthy scratch. I would rather have the consistency from Kerfoot.

But yes, that price was too high. Even a 2nd round pick, which is a reasonable return for Kerfoot, would have been pushing Bennett's value ceiling but including Heineman (who is closer to a 3rd round pick than the 2nd round pick that Florida used to get him) was overkill.

Oh that got annoying how some people thought Dubas made a big mistake.

 

[Duke16]

Oh that got annoying how some people thought Dubas made a big mistake.

Marchment gets all the hype because he's big. I still think Malgin comes back better

Meanwhile Trevor Moore is producing at a legit middle-six level for the Kings and you don't hear a word from the older crowd.

 

[Cor]

Barabanov scored in his debut for Sharks.


Another f***ing mistake by Dubas.

One game clearly a small sample, but we’ll see come game 6 of what it really was.

Shame.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sam Bennett watch

6GP 7 Pts

 

[ACC1224]

I feel like this is the same song and dance as with Mason Marchment, who put up 6 points in his first 9 games and subsequently put up 3 points in his next 21 games in spite of receiving better minutes...

Really, it is the same song and dance for Sam Bennett too. He's had hot streaks before (look at his playoff runs). The issue is that he has just as many, if not more, stretches where he looks like (and is) a healthy scratch.

Kerfoot may not have too many hot streaks, but he's been here for over 100 games now and he has rarely, if ever, looked like a healthy scratch. I would rather have the consistency from Kerfoot.

But yes, that price was too high. Even a 2nd round pick, which is a reasonable return for Kerfoot, would have been pushing Bennett's value ceiling but including Heineman (who is closer to a 3rd round pick than the 2nd round pick that Florida used to get him) was overkill.

Yes for some reason Bennett does play better as the games get tougher which is I’m assuming why most saw him as a good deadline pickup. Not sure if the same applies to Marchment?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yes for some reason Bennett does play better as the games get tougher which is I’m assuming why most saw him as a good deadline pickup. Not sure if the same applies to Marchment?

A good portion of the board was super upset with the addition of Foligno and really wanted Taylor Hall.

 

[Fogelhund]

Barabanov scored in his debut for Sharks.


Another f***ing mistake by Dubas.

One game clearly a small sample, but we’ll see come game 6 of what it really was.

Shame.

This is sarcasm right?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

This is sarcasm right?

1000%

 

[stickty111]

This is sarcasm right?

He's mocking the other user who is already celebrating Sam Bennett's production off a 6 game sample size.

 

[ACC1224]

A good portion of the board was super upset with the addition of Foligno and really wanted Taylor Hall.

Foligno was always my number one although I would have been happy with Hall. The Foligno type is a year too late.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Foligno was always my number one although I would have been happy with Hall. The Foligno type is a year too late.

I enjoyed that Jets game we just watched. Would have been pushed out of the building a year ago, now having Simmonds, Muzzin, Thornton, Foligno...no more. It's not all one ONE guy to be the physical element. It made everyone play bigger. Sandin comfortable throwing the body because he knows the boys have his back.

I think the loss last year vs CBJ while unfortunate made Dubas re-evaluate how he built the team and I think it will help more in the long run.

 

[ACC1224]

I enjoyed that Jets game we just watched. Would have been pushed out of the building a year ago, now having Simmonds, Muzzin, Thornton, Foligno...no more. It's not all one ONE guy to be the physical element. It made everyone play bigger. Sandin comfortable throwing the body because he knows the boys have his back.

I think the loss last year vs CBJ while unfortunate made Dubas re-evaluate how he built the team and I think it will help more in the long run.

Yep I can appreciate Dubas realized he got it wrong and instead of doubling down, he made it right.

 

[ToneDog]

Yep I can appreciate Dubas realized he got it wrong and instead of doubling down, he made it right.

Isn't it funny/sad how so many dummies on this board realized it long before Dubas and Shanny?? Hopefully he starts looking for some of these types of players in upcoming drafts rather than having to give up high picks and pay teams to retain salary to obtain them.

 

[ACC1224]

Isn't it funny/sad how so many dummies on this board realized it long before Dubas and Shanny?? Hopefully he starts looking for some of these types of players in upcoming drafts rather than having to give up high picks and pay teams to retain salary to obtain them.

At least things are getting better for Leaf fans. It’s been a tough sled for the Dubas fans. They do crack me up though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

At least things are getting better for Leaf fans. It’s been a tough sled for the Dubas fans. They do crack me up though.

Imagine watching the playoffs vs CBJ last year and thinking the Leafs lacked skill.

They lacked guys you could go to war with. Physically wear down guys like Jones, Savard, Werenski etc by finishing checks. We really only had Clifford finishing any checks.

 

[Cor]

Imagine watching the playoffs vs CBJ last year and thinking the Leafs lacked skill.

They lacked guys you could go to war with. Physically wear down guys like Jones, Savard, Werenski etc by finishing checks. We really only had Clifford finishing any checks.

I don't disagree with your overall point.

Kyle Clifford had 5 hits in the 5 games, T-9th on our roster (with 5 other skaters).

We were also shutout in 2 of the 5 games. The main reason we lost that series, is largely due to our skilled players not getting it done.

 

[kb]

Let's remember 2 things....it was the previous coach who benched all of the 'grit' and forced trades. Once Keefe was hired, they got Clifford. Second thing is both Dubas and Keefe already knew the value of toughness and grit.

But it is comical to see the Dubas deniers making up their own stories and patting themselves on the back for their invented narrative.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't disagree with your overall point.

Kyle Clifford had 5 hits in the 5 games, T-9th on our roster (with 5 other skaters).

Needed more of that. It can't all be on one guy. I remember when we first got Muzzin, he was more physical, but you have whole teams coming after you as one guy and it's a lot. Same for Matt Martin under Babcock, it's a lot to ask.

Even adding Simmonds this year, it got a bit better but still wouldn't identify us as a physical team.

We went one step further with Foligno, we have an awesome blend of skill but we're no longer punching bags that'll just take the abuse.

 

[Cor]

Needed more of that. It can't all be on one guy. I remember when we first got Muzzin, he was more physical, but you have whole teams coming after you as one guy and it's a lot. Same for Matt Martin under Babcock, it's a lot to ask.

Even adding Simmonds this year, it got a bit better but still wouldn't identify us as a physical team.

We went one step further with Foligno, we have an awesome blend of skill but we're no longer punching bags that'll just take the abuse.

The point being though, Clifford wasn't that physical in the play-ins. It was actually fairly disappointing as the player we saw post-trade versus the one we saw in the play-ins was a lot different. Marincin had the same amount of hits in 2 less games as Clifford.

Overall Point is correct; We have more players now, than we did last season, we can go to war with.

However, I wouldn't point to Clifford as an example last year. Hyman was much more of the warrior in the play-in, than Clifford was.

 

[Fogelhund]

Imagine watching the playoffs vs CBJ last year and thinking the Leafs lacked skill.

They lacked guys you could go to war with. Physically wear down guys like Jones, Savard, Werenski etc by finishing checks. We really only had Clifford finishing any checks.

I don't disagree with your point, but my personal opinion, is that the guys on the ice most often, are the guys that need to be ready to go war. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, and whomever plays with them. D players too. I don't care who you surround these guys with, if the best players aren't ready to do what it takes, it just won't matter. Of course we didn't have enough grit too, too many of the same players, but if those guys aren't ready to fight through, to score against the Columbus types, the grit guys won't matter.

Isn't it funny/sad how so many dummies on this board realized it long before Dubas and Shanny?? Hopefully he starts looking for some of these types of players in upcoming drafts rather than having to give up high picks and pay teams to retain salary to obtain them.

Dubas algorithm needs adjusting. We still want BPA, but that equation needs more than just pure skill. Dubas has drafted some great players, with more upside than their position in the draft, but we need some balance here. I've said that for some time, and often get attacked for it. "It's easy to find grit"... and yet, we've overpaid for it. I'm happy with Amirov, but then wonder, if Lou hadn't handed given Marleau a three year deal, we end up drafting Jarvis and maybe Schneider instead of Amirov. We shouldn't draft by postion, or need, but I do think looking at things from a diversified approach, could pay dividends.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The point being though, Clifford wasn't that physical in the play-ins. It was actually fairly disappointing as the player we saw post-trade versus the one we saw in the play-ins was a lot different. Marincin had the same amount of hits in 2 less games as Clifford.

Overall Point is correct; We have more players now, than we did last season, we can go to war with.

However, I wouldn't point to Clifford as an example last year. Hyman was much more of the warrior in the play-in, than Clifford was.

Could be a correlation between TOI too. Clifford was on a 4th line but would have hoped for more of an impact. I have no reservations about what we're going to get with the group we have now.

I don't disagree with your point, but my personal opinion, is that the guys on the ice most often, are the guys that need to be ready to go war. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, and whomever plays with them. D players too. I don't care who you surround these guys with, if the best players aren't ready to do what it takes, it just won't matter. Of course we didn't have enough grit too, too many of the same players, but if those guys aren't ready to fight through, to score against the Columbus types, the grit guys won't matter.



Dubas algorithm needs adjusting. We still want BPA, but that equation needs more than just pure skill. Dubas has drafted some great players, with more upside than their position in the draft, but we need some balance here. I've said that for some time, and often get attacked for it. "It's easy to find grit"... and yet, we've overpaid for it. I'm happy with Amirov, but then wonder, if Lou handed given Marleau a three year deal, we end up drafting Jarvis and maybe Schneider instead of Amirov. We shouldn't draft by postion, or need, but I do think looking at things from a diversified approach, could pay dividends.

Matthews making more of a physical impact this year. JT plays in traffic. Don't think 88 has it in him but he's been going into traffic this more since he's come back. Marner will do different things, blocks shots etc to win a game.

I was for Schneider over anyone besides Lundell and Askarov was a toss up for me, I got crapped on because Schneider has limited up side (apparently).

I think I also got crapped on for wanting Carlo in his draft year for pretty much the same reason. I also liked Hague quite a bit...

I like skill as much as the next guy, you will never win a cup without it but you need different ingredients in your line up. We're seeing that grit is going for a premium at the last couple of trade deadlines.

 

[Fogelhund]

Matthews making more of a physical impact this year. JT plays in traffic. Don't think 88 has it in him but he's been going into traffic this more since he's come back. Marner will do different things, blocks shots etc to win a game.

That's the biggest thing this year. Matthews is playing more physical. Tavares has played in traffic, and is better defensively too. Nylander has gone to the net, and scored some tough goals, but he's not a grit guy, but he's also been very good at times defensively... a more complete game. Marner has become better on the PK, and defensively... there is more commitment in the regular season by these guys, to winning and whatever it takes. Of course, we've seen games where that didn't happen, and the results showed. Now the test will be, can these guys elevate that game even further in the playoffs, and you've got a good team, especially with the changes. But these guys are still our keys to victory.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's the biggest thing this year. Matthews is playing more physical. Tavares has played in traffic, and is better defensively too. Nylander has gone to the net, and scored some tough goals, but he's not a grit guy, but he's also been very good at times defensively... a more complete game. Marner has become better on the PK, and defensively... there is more commitment in the regular season by these guys, to winning and whatever it takes. Of course, we've seen games where that didn't happen, and the results showed. Now the test will be, can these guys elevate that game even further in the playoffs, and you've got a good team, especially with the changes. But these guys are still our keys to victory.

100% - I think just a compressed schedule can cause a bit of a lull where the team might not have it, we got goalied / our goalie crapped the bed for stretches too.

I love that Foligno can be that Hyman-like 3rd wheel for Matthews/Marner and Hyman can go down that 3rd line and drive offense there, we become a deeper team when he's there.

Foligno-Matthews-Marner
Gally-JT-88
Soup-Nash-Hyman
Kerfoot-Spezza-Simmonds

I expect some variation of that to be our forward group for playoffs. I believe the Athletic did break down how the last little while that Galchenyuk has been a bit of a defensive problem so there could be a change where Kerfoot could move up with JT/88 and I honestly didn't mind him there at times.

 

[The Podium]

Yep I can appreciate Dubas realized he got it wrong and instead of doubling down, he made it right.

Or enough time has passed that he actually implemented his vision...

I dont think Dubas ever got it wrong, I think fans were just quick to make assumptions.