Trade and Free Agency - 2024-25

[Dr Jan Itor]

Boldy has two quality seasons before signing his contract. Nothing wrong with waiting more then one good season on rossi. Lots of players have one big year then regress. Lucky for us rossi got better, a good problem to have.

He signed on January 16th, 2023, so it was after 90 NHL games, parts of 2 seasons (47 games season 1, 43 games season 2).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Ok. Are you suggesting that Faber isn’t worth $8M? I’m confused by the vague and coy answers.

He hasn't been this year, no. Luckily, it doesn't kick in until next year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Ok. Are you suggesting that Faber isn’t worth $8M? I’m confused by the vague and coy answers.

He would've underperformed his $8.5M contract this year, and I don't automatically assume it's because of the concussion. This is just to say that I don't think Rossi becomes a "whipping boy" just because he gets a bigger contract.

 

[Luceni]

If this is an objective view, you're going to need some sort of facts to support your assertion. In my subjective view, "deer in headlights" is hyperbole if you're talking about last season. Two seasons ago, yeah, I think that would be an accurate descriptor. Last season was one of ups and downs, like any rookie season, but overall it was a very good season where he all but established himself as top-2 line center on this team. If he were a deer in headlights, he'd have been getting the Ohgren treatment... also known as the Rossi treatment from 2 years ago.

Full disclosure: If you review my post history, I think you'll find I was pretty firmly on the fence when it came to re-signing him last off-season.

Thanks for posting this, couldn't have said it better.

I think Guerin decided a long time ago that he won't resign Rossi, mostly because of his size. Hynes inows that and is o.k. with that decision as long as he gets a competitive team to coach next season. That's why there have always been rumors about Rossi being moved. That's why Rossi has alwyas been the odd man out when there are top6 line changes for whatever reason. There's no longterm plam for Rossi here.

Rossis development just makes it harder now to sell that decision to the fans. But now you can tell the fans that Rossis agent has asked for too much money.

Only the most naive fans will believe anything Guerin's telling them.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Like or not, the NHL releasing 3 years of future cap numbers is going to figure into the equation.

Guerin not believing in cap inflation doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Or is Buium's ceiling on a $114M cap still the $8.5M that Faber signed for when the cap was $88M?

 

[Prior]

This franchise’s history is proof that you shouldn’t be so quick to kick top 6 producing centers to the curb.

I think it’s also very fair to question if you can win at a high level with Rossi as a top 6 center in the playoffs. He’s a timely scorer and is willing to go to the hard areas where many of this team’s players past and present have been unwilling or unable during the playoffs. Very different game right now than what they will see come playoffs so I’m in the we’ll see mindset with Rossi.

I think it’s very fair for Guerin to have the same mindset at this point. If you are wanting to lock up Rossi long term you are looking at something you will not come back from. Same issue they’ve had from the likes of Spurgeon and Brodin. Good on Rossi to get himself to this point given where he was. I still contend this playoff will be the deciding factor on whether he’s here next season. He goes MIA and it’s a done deal, he will be elsewhere. Personally, if the dollar figure is $8-9m, I have no issue moving on, getting asset(s) back and using those dollars elsewhere. He just isn’t that type of player on this roster.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

If this is an objective view, you're going to need some sort of facts to support your assertion. In my subjective view, "deer in headlights" is hyperbole if you're talking about last season. Two seasons ago, yeah, I think that would be an accurate descriptor. Last season was one of ups and downs, like any rookie season, but overall it was a very good season where he all but established himself as top-2 line center on this team. If he were a deer in headlights, he'd have been getting the Ohgren treatment... also known as the Rossi treatment from 2 years ago.

Full disclosure: If you review my post history, I think you'll find I was pretty firmly on the fence when it came to re-signing him last off-season.

Rossi’s production fell off dramatically when Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy was put together in the second half. You can see it in game log. The longest stretches in the first half without a point were 3 games (x2). In the second half he had stretches of 10 games, 5 games (x2), 4 games, and 3 games without registering a point.

 

[BagHead]

Rossi’s production fell off dramatically when Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy was put together in the second half. You can see it in game log. The longest stretches in the first half without a point were 3 games (x2). In the second half he had stretches of 10 games, 5 games (x2), 4 games, and 3 games without registering a point.

So... ups and downs. That is one of the main reasons I was on the fence. Through 56 games he had 33 points, then had 7 in his final 26 games. Had he maintained his 56 game pace he would have had 48 points instead of 40. If he hadn't run into the rookie wall two thirds of the way through the season I would have been all in on re-signing him last off-season. He left a little room for concern, and a lot of room for optimism, it just wasn't all optimism.

 

[f7ben]

The entire issue is Guerins attitude

“I had to overpay Foligno because if I didn’t then I immediately have to go out and find another plug to do whatever it is that he does and overpay that person”

also Guerin

“Rossi is entirely replaceable and I don’t want to over pay him for the 70 point pace and responsible 2 way top 6C game he brings”

Guerin is an idiot and did the same thing with Fiala , he doesn’t care about skill speed or offense. He wants plodding pylons playing a plug game and slowing everything down.

I would choose to suffer 5 losing seasons in a row if it meant we were rid of this idiot and everything he has infected this org with was scrubbed.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Rossi’s production fell off dramatically when Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy was put together in the second half. You can see it in game log. The longest stretches in the first half without a point were 3 games (x2). In the second half he had stretches of 10 games, 5 games (x2), 4 games, and 3 games without registering a point.

Yes, rookies will probably suffer statistical downturns when they play with worse players.

 

[Prior]

Shouldn’t Rossi be on 70pt pace before we say he is on a 70pt pace or a 70pt center? He’s on 63pt pace and there is a good chance he doesn’t hit 60 given his current play and state of injuries.

Glad we could find a way to bring up Fiala again so we can point out what a great move that was by Guerin.

 

[Parax]

Rossi’s production fell off dramatically when Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy was put together in the second half. You can see it in game log. The longest stretches in the first half without a point were 3 games (x2). In the second half he had stretches of 10 games, 5 games (x2), 4 games, and 3 games without registering a point.

Here's how all 4 of them have done at 5v5 this season when not playing with any of the other 3.

Player	TOI	GF	GA	xGF%
Rossi	278:00	9	8	55.6%
Boldy	212:58	2	11	44.5%
Kaprizov	82:33	2	3	46.37%
Ek	168:18	5	8	48.26%

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yes. Let’s blame Guerin for waiting to offer a contract to someone that looked like a deer in headlights last season.

If he offers Rossi 5-6M/yr to Rossi and Rossi busts, people would be rioting.

He gave Eriksson Ek $5.25M on a lower cap after a 44 point per 82 game pace season. Nobody rioted.

 

[MNRube]

I like the idea of a McTavish - Rossi trade if we are doing a 1 for 1 hockey trade. I’m afraid Pinto is what we are going to get

 

[DigitalBoldy]

So... ups and downs. That is one of the main reasons I was on the fence. Through 56 games he had 33 points, then had 7 in his final 26 games. Had he maintained his 56 game pace he would have had 48 points instead of 40. If he hadn't run into the rookie wall two thirds of the way through the season I would have been all in on re-signing him last off-season. He left a little room for concern, and a lot of room for optimism, it just wasn't all optimism.

Not ups and downs or a rookie wall, it was a dramatic falloff. 7 points in 26 games is a 22 point per 82 game pace. The drop in pace coincides with being removed from Kaprizov's line. That's where I see the "deer in headlights" comment making sense. 22 point pace is awful. We also got to see the best offensive line in team history at the same time (Kap-Ek-Boldy).

 

[DigitalBoldy]

He gave Eriksson Ek $5.25M on a lower cap after a 44 point per 82 game pace season. Nobody rioted.

Let me know when Rossi reaches Eriksson Ek's level of defensive play.

 

[MNRube]

Let me know when Rossi reaches Eriksson Ek's level of defensive play.

Not to mention Ek was behind Koivu and Staal in his early years and never had a Boldy or Kaprizov type winger to play with.

It would’ve been really nice to see Yurov or Heidt this year to get an idea about an internal replacement. My big issue with Rossi is that no other GM is going to want to pay him huge money either and he’s not going to bring back much in a trade.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Not to mention Ek was behind Koivu and Staal in his early years and never had a Boldy or Kaprizov type winger to play with.

He made Foligno and Greenway look fantastic too.

I think Rossi is the perfect guy to give a 2-3 year bridge deal to just to be sure this is who he is. 3x$6.5-7M. Not insulting to Rossi, keeps the cap hit around Boldy's cap hit and Rossi will have a chance for a massive contract right as he is entering his prime.

 

[MNRube]

He made Foligno and Greenway look fantastic too.

I think Rossi is the perfect guy to give a 2-3 year bridge deal to just to be sure this is who he is. 3x$6.5-7M. Not insulting to Rossi, keeps the cap hit around Boldy's cap hit and Rossi will have a chance for a massive contract right as he is entering his prime.

I’d be all over that. But I doubt Rossi’s camp would agree. Especially after his myocarditis. I suspect he wants a longterm deal

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Let me know when Rossi reaches Eriksson Ek's level of defensive play.

That makes up for the lower cap then.

 

[f7ben]

Shouldn’t Rossi be on 70pt pace before we say he is on a 70pt pace or a 70pt center? He’s on 63pt pace and there is a good chance he doesn’t hit 60 given his current play and state of injuries.

Glad we could find a way to bring up Fiala again so we can point out what a great move that was by Guerin.

Given what faber has been his year I’d take Fiala. So no point for you.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He made Foligno and Greenway look fantastic too.

I think Rossi is the perfect guy to give a 2-3 year bridge deal to just to be sure this is who he is. 3x$6.5-7M. Not insulting to Rossi, keeps the cap hit around Boldy's cap hit and Rossi will have a chance for a massive contract right as he is entering his prime.

I'm fine with it. I'm sure at 3 years Guerin would want less than $7M. Though maybe since he doesn't believe in cap inflation, he might not believe in that either.

Guerin doesn't need to go up to $9M, but holding at $7M doesn't seem to be too constructive either. I think you can pretty rationally get close to $8M.

 

[BagHead]

Not ups and downs or a rookie wall, it was a dramatic falloff. 7 points in 26 games is a 22 point per 82 game pace. The drop in pace coincides with being removed from Kaprizov's line. That's where I see the "deer in headlights" comment making sense. 22 point pace is awful. We also got to see the best offensive line in team history at the same time (Kap-Ek-Boldy).

Maybe this is a semantics issue. I view a "deer in headlights" as meaning that a player is so thoroughly overwhelmed that they can hardly play properly, just like a deer in headlights can't act properly. I don't think that describes Rossi's play from last season (and the comment was about the season overall, not a specific part of the season). He made the all-rookie team. Must have been a prolifically terrible rookie class if one of the members looked like a deer in headlights that year. If your definition is different, then I don't know what other descriptors you use for rookies who do even just reasonably well. This is the problem with hyperbole.

 

[Prior]

Given what faber has been his year I’d take Fiala. So no point for you.

You would be wildly outnumbered not just here but in the hockey watching public.

 

[Luceni]

I love Faber but it's more likely hell freezes before people start to agree that every other player would've been criticized about his play lately compared to his cap hit. I'm not saying I want Fiala back but his performance on the ice doesn't match his paycheck at the moment. I get it, everyone loves Faber, me too, but there is no fair treatment.

Especially compared to rossi, who alwyas has been the man in the doghouse for Guerin and most posters. Rossi has to go the hard way and prove everything, including his game in playoffs like someone suggested. And even when he succeeded, there will still be people out there who say: But the size! It's a very short leash for a player who did nothing but improve the past 2 years and works his ass off even in holiday time.

How many playoff games did other young guns play (Boldy, Faber, ...) when they got their payday? Did they prove themself in playoffs? Who else is proven Playoff calibre on the Wild roster?