OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[CheckingLineCenter]

I'm not sure that TJ can lean to the left ...

Aaron Rodgers definitely can’t.

 

[Pens1566]

Aaron Rodgers definitely can’t.

Depends on how much peyote he's on, really.

 

[End of Line]

I think they will have TJ and Highsmith/Herbig swap sides a little more and call that the revolutionary change.

But yes, I don't expect there to be any fundamental changes. Line up and beat your opponent is the only way they know how.

I just think back to that Julian Edelman clip where he talks about how everytime he played the Steelers they knew what they were going to do bc they never changed anything.

 

[Peat]

I just don't think the answer to that is to run out and spend a bunch of money in FA to fill those needs. It's to start over, do it right, build through the draft, and then look to FA to see what holes you have. Not the other way around.

See I heavily disagree with this when it comes to the offence. I think that the offence had more or less bottomed out after losing a ton of talent in a hurry and that trying to rebuild it entirely with young guys and bargains was a high risk proposition that should have been reinforced by a big influx of money because otherwise you run the risk of having a bunch of draft picks wash out for want of support - which is exactly what has happened. The draft picks need support and if a team loses all their highly paid veterans, that means free agency and trade. The first iteration of that mistake happened in the Colbert years, but I'm not super jazzed about an OL with four dudes on rookie contracts next year as a repeat.

But more than that, and something where I feel like where we're not going to agree at this point, is that quite simply the way they are spending their money right now does not fill me with faith for how they will fill their holes once they've finally built through the draft.

The Steelers have the second least amount of dead cap space in the league at ~$3M. Other teams have upwards of $77M. Even if they were to cut their 'big' mistakes in Fitz and Queen next year, they'd only have ~$10M which this year would be around 7th least. I dunno. I think that says something. Maybe they haven't found stars in FA, but they've avoided huge mistakes, too. For a team that is rebuilding, I don't see that as a problem.

Honestly, I used to regard this as a good thing, but now you've made me think about it and look some stuff up... the Eagles and Rams were both top 10 for dead cap when winning the SB in the last five years (top 5 in the Rams case) so is it really such a huge mistake when it's clearly non-crippling?

 

[pistolpete11]

I just think back to that Julian Edelman clip where he talks about how everytime he played the Steelers they knew what they were going to do bc they never changed anything.

Absolutely, but I think Watt's comments after the season about needing to move around will carry some weight. So I expect to see something, but it will be woefully insufficient and not fundamentally change the defense.

 

[End of Line]

Absolutely, but I think Watt's comments after the season about needing to move around will carry some weight. So I expect to see something, but it will be woefully insufficient and not fundamentally change the defense.

They’ll swap early on in the season but won’t change coverages when they do so.

Khan and Tomlin are in my neck of the woods for Ohio St’s pro day

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

What's the saying? Something like if you're thinking about retirement you're already retired...

 

[JTG]

I'm fine with Mason. Let him have a shot.

 

[pistolpete11]

See I heavily disagree with this when it comes to the offence. I think that the offence had more or less bottomed out after losing a ton of talent in a hurry and that trying to rebuild it entirely with young guys and bargains was a high risk proposition that should have been reinforced by a big influx of money because otherwise you run the risk of having a bunch of draft picks wash out for want of support - which is exactly what has happened. The draft picks need support and if a team loses all their highly paid veterans, that means free agency and trade. The first iteration of that mistake happened in the Colbert years, but I'm not super jazzed about an OL with four dudes on rookie contracts next year as a repeat.

I don't agree their offense players that did wash out washed out because of lack of support. I think they washed out because they weren't good picks (Pickett, Harris, Moore, Green, etc. which I said at the time, too), they don't have a QB, and their offensive philosophy is ancient.

Another fundamental disagreement we have is caring about next year. Their line will be young and there will be growing pains, but so what?

Honestly, I used to regard this as a good thing, but now you've made me think about it and look some stuff up... the Eagles and Rams were both top 10 for dead cap when winning the SB in the last five years (top 5 in the Rams case) so is it really such a huge mistake when it's clearly non-crippling?

If your take is that throwing money around on bad FA signings is no big deal, then why are you so worked up about Fitz and Queen?

I don't think I said it was crippling, but I think it shows that Khan's not making as many bad signings as you were indicating. At least not in comparison to other GM's.

Lastly, I don't know where to find previous years team cap numbers, but looking at the Eagles, they were able to get away with it because they have a number of sweatheart deals...or at least deals that were sweathearts in 2024, I imagine most of these will be going up big time in the coming years. Hurts ($13M), Brown ($11M), Smith ($8M), Saquon ($4M), Carter ($5M), Davis ($4M), Lane Johnson ($16M), Mailata ($11M), Baun ($1.6M), Dickerson ($6M), Jurgens ($2M)....

Obviously Saquon was a FA and Brown was a trade, but the common factor among the rest of these guys? Drafted by the Eagles.

 

[pistolpete11]

What's the saying? Something like if you're thinking about retirement you're already retired...

Please oh please let this happen. I had resigned myself to him signing here, but it would be even better if he didn't.

Although, the "they got caught waiting around for Rodgers!!1" takes will be insufferable. As if they had any options that would have made a difference or as if tanking with Rudolph isn't the best possible outcome for the team long term.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What's the saying? Something like if you're thinking about retirement you're already retired...

The excuses for Tomlin next season are already starting to write themselves.

 

[Pens x]

It would be hysterical if Rodgers would rather retire than come to this circus.

Who had go into the season with Mason f***ing Rudolph as the starter on their bingo cards right after the season ended? Simply insane and utterly indefensible if they go into the season with just Mason.

But but but Khan wasn’t distracted! The team was not held hostage by Arod! The DK trade makes no sense if you dont find a f***ing qb.

 

[Peat]

I don't agree their offense players that did wash out washed out because of lack of support. I think they washed out because they weren't good picks (Pickett, Harris, Moore, Green, etc. which I said at the time, too), they don't have a QB, and their offensive philosophy is ancient.

Another fundamental disagreement we have is caring about next year. Their line will be young and there will be growing pains, but so what?

Because there is no guarantee that the pains are growing pains instead of just pain. There's no guarantee that in two years' time we're not talking about the third attempt to rebuild the OL because half or more of those guys busted.

And we'll never know the true answer of whether it was drafting or development with those guys, but it was absolutely the worst possible environment for them and Harris has just said so. As such, I am assuming it played a part. Even if those guys weren't the greatest picks possible, they still had a chance of being so much more than they were. Even if it didn't, it was still the wrong move. Just like not reinforcing the OL with veterans is. If they get lucky, lucky them. Likelihood is they won't.

If your take is that throwing money around on bad FA signings is no big deal, then why are you so worked up about Fitz and Queen?

I don't think I said it was crippling, but I think it shows that Khan's not making as many bad signings as you were indicating. At least not in comparison to other GM's.

Because a non-working move is a non-working move - or a mistake - and I don't agree with your stance of 'oh well, didn't really matter' in the long run. It's an area where the Khan era has a bad mark for me so I'm going to explain why you since you said it was 'fine to good' (iirc).

And because the one thing that is a huge mistake in the NFL, imo, is not acquiring great players. You can bullshit your way around the money and the contracts. You can find ways to make up for wasted draft picks, or wasted contracts. No one contract matters that much in this league but consistently not getting a big win does. The Steelers have been not been getting those big wins and it's adding up.

Lastly, I don't know where to find previous years team cap numbers, but looking at the Eagles, they were able to get away with it because they have a number of sweatheart deals...or at least deals that were sweathearts in 2024, I imagine most of these will be going up big time in the coming years. Hurts ($13M), Brown ($11M), Smith ($8M), Saquon ($4M), Carter ($5M), Davis ($4M), Lane Johnson ($16M), Mailata ($11M), Baun ($1.6M), Dickerson ($6M), Jurgens ($2M)....

Obviously Saquon was a FA and Brown was a trade, but the common factor among the rest of these guys? Drafted by the Eagles.

Yeah, the Eagles have a ton of back-loaded contracts. Lot of ghost years. I'm not jumping up and down demanding this team follow that route when they're not contenders but at the same time, we have just seen doing so probably isn't going to hurt them when they are and maybe it'll accelerate the process.

And Baun was a FA too fwiw. Personally I'd suggest that list supports what I said - drafting is more important, but FA/trade is important enough that we can't just say if the drafting is good, then all is good. Cos that team ain't winning shit without Brown and Barkley, and in all likelihood they aren't giving that money to Hurts as he was on the path to not being it before they got Brown in.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It would be hysterical if Rodgers would rather retire than come to this circus.

Who had go into the season with Mason f***ing Rudolph as the starter on their bingo cars right after the season ended. Simply insane and utterly indefensible if they go into the season with just Mason.

But but but Khan wasn’t distracted! The team was not held hostage by Arod! The DK trade makes no sense if you dont find a f***ing qb.

What exactly did you want Khan to do?

Let’s focus on the man who has been here the whole time, the one constant with absolute power.

Tomlin had no succession plan at QB when Khan came aboard.

Tomlin then pushed for Wilson last season and that blew up in his face (unsurprisingly).

Fields doesn’t want to play for Tomlin, not that it matters anyway.

There was never any solution for this season because they f***ed up in 2019 and never have an eye on the future.

AR wanting to retire would be icing on the cake for any Steelers fan who wants to see Tomlin get his comeuppance.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Please oh please let this happen. I had resigned myself to him signing here, but it would be even better if he didn't.

Although, the "they got caught waiting around for Rodgers!!1" takes will be insufferable. As if they had any options that would have made a difference or as if tanking with Rudolph isn't the best possible outcome for the team long term.

I don’t think they view it as getting caught waiting on Rodgers. DK said mason was told they don’t believe Rodgers plays an entire season. They are probably drafting a developmental quarterback in round 4 or 5. Smith said he can see some of Tanahill on mason

 

[bigdaddyk88]

What exactly did you want Khan to do?

Let’s focus on the man who has been here the whole time, the one constant with absolute power.

Tomlin had no succession plan at QB when Khan came aboard.

Tomlin then pushed for Wilson last season and that blew up in his face (unsurprisingly).

Fields doesn’t want to play for Tomlin, not that it matters anyway.

There was never any solution for this season because they f***ed up in 2019 and never have an eye on the future.

AR wanting to retire would be icing on the cake for any Steelers fan who wants to see Tomlin get his comeuppance.

How exactly did Tomlin push for RW he signed for the vet minimum and was still hoping to sign here before yesterday according to Dulac.
If the slapped the tag on Fields he would have taken the money and been happy. He literally took the biggest payday he could get because this is only payday. Once he flops with the Jets he is back to 4 million a year like Mason and Winston
Colbert is the guy who signed Ben the extension after the Jacksonville loss. He was the one drafting to keep his window open. They went from 1990 to 2004 without a franchise quarterback

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

How exactly did Tomlin push for RW he signed for the vet minimum and was still hoping to sign here before yesterday according to Dulac.
If the slapped the tag on Fields he would have taken the money and been happy. He literally took the biggest payday he could get because this is only payday. Once he flops with the Jets he is back to 4 million a year like Mason and Winston
Colbert is the guy who signed Ben the extension after the Jacksonville loss. He was the one drafting to keep his window open. They went from 1990 to 2004 without a franchise quarterback

“DENIAL HELPS US TO PACE OUR FEELINGS OF GRIEF. IT IS NATURE'S WAY OF LETTING IN ONLY AS MUCH AS WE CAN HANDLE.”

Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

 

[bigdaddyk88]

“DENIAL HELPS US TO PACE OUR FEELINGS OF GRIEF. IT IS NATURE'S WAY OF LETTING IN ONLY AS MUCH AS WE CAN HANDLE.”

Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

Or you can blame Tomlin for everything. They have changed their approach under Khan on free agency drafting trades. Ownership wants them be competitive so they are trying to retool and work towards the future

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Ok, we are getting to close to our pick in the HFBoards NFL mock draft.

Potential at Pick 83:

QB: Tyler Shough (59-0-0-91), Jalen Milroe (61-0-99-0), Will Howard (84-0-0-0), Quinn Ewers(0-0-0-0)

RB: Dylan Sampson (80-0-63-88), Jordan James (62-0-0-0), RJ Harvey (95-0-85-0), DJ Giddens(0-0-86-0), Devin Neal (0-0-96-0), Brayshul Tuten (0-0-0-76)

TE: Elijah Arroyo (39-45-57-51), Gunnar Helm (64-0-0-93), Terrance Ferguson (98-0-0-0)

WR: Jack Bech (74-0-38-52), Xavier Restrepo (0-0-54-69), Jaylin Noel (72-0-86-61), Jalen Royals (58-0-89-94), Savion Williams (0-0-93-97), Tai Felton (0-0-0-99)

OT: Cameron Williams (63-0-92-84), Charles Grant (0-0-97-86), Anthony Belton (0-0-98-72), Chase Lundt (0-0-0-85)

G: Marcus Mbow (66-50-76-67), Wyatt Milum (0-0-90-0), Miles Frazier (0-0-0-100)

DL: Shemar Turner (56-0-55-74), Omarr Norman-Lott (78-0-61-62), CJ West (0-0-69), Joshua Farmer (88-43-79-0), Jordan Phillips (73-0-80-0), Jamaree Caldwell (0-0-0-73), Jared Ivey (0-0-59-55), Vernon Broughton (0-0-78-0)

Edge: Bradyn Swinson (0-0-47-70), Ashton Gillete (71-0-0-63), Elijah Roberts (0-0-82-0)

CB: Jacob Parrish (86-0-0-42), Dorian Strong, Quincy Riley (77-0-0-0), Cobee Bryant (0-0-0-89)

S: Lathan Ransom (0-0-94-91), Billy Bowman Jr (0-0-0-95)

The Number beside each name:

• Dane Brugler’s Big Board 100 (Feb 11th) – no update since combine
• Daniel Jeremiah Top 50 (Mar 6th)
• PFF Big Board Top 100 (Mar 21st)
• 33rd Team Top 100 (Mar 6th)

The only consensus players are Elijah Arroyo and Marcus Mbow. Though that comes with a big caveat because Jeremiah only has a top 50 right now.

Arroyo has prototypical size for a TE (6-5, 250lbs, 33” Arms, 10” Hands). He has soft hands and is a decent route runner. He was used more as flex TE, big slot in college. And thus, his blocking is a bit lacking if placed on the line of scrimmage at this point in his career. His big weakness is that he barely played in 22 and 23 due to ACL injury and thus has big medical concerns. For a team that likes to run 12 and 13 personnel he may not be a bad selection and he is considered a 2nd round pick in value.

Mbow has ok size for a tackle but is alittle light for the position (6-4, 303lbs, 32” Arms, 10 ½” hands). He projects in the NFL as a guard, and at that he could be a year one starter that could get to pro-bowl level, maybe even All-Pro level. Has that kind of talent and drive. He moves exceptionally well for a man his size.

So the question is, should we take a player who has a high rating who dropped, players always do, or should they take another position of greater need, QB perhaps. I like to take the talent.

What do you think?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Or you can blame Tomlin for everything. They have changed their approach under Khan on free agency drafting trades. Ownership wants them be competitive so they are trying to retool and work towards the future

So cute you think any of this matters as long as Tomlin is around.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

Ok, we are getting to close to our pick in the HFBoards NFL mock draft.

Potential at Pick 83:

QB: Tyler Shough (59-0-0-91), Jalen Milroe (61-0-99-0), Will Howard (84-0-0-0), Quinn Ewers(0-0-0-0)

RB: Dylan Sampson (80-0-63-88), Jordan James (62-0-0-0), RJ Harvey (95-0-85-0), DJ Giddens(0-0-86-0), Devin Neal (0-0-96-0), Brayshul Tuten (0-0-0-76)

TE: Elijah Arroyo (39-45-57-51), Gunnar Helm (64-0-0-93), Terrance Ferguson (98-0-0-0)

WR: Jack Bech (74-0-38-52), Xavier Restrepo (0-0-54-69), Jaylin Noel (72-0-86-61), Jalen Royals (58-0-89-94), Savion Williams (0-0-93-97), Tai Felton (0-0-0-99)

OT: Cameron Williams (63-0-92-84), Charles Grant (0-0-97-86), Anthony Belton (0-0-98-72), Chase Lundt (0-0-0-85)

G: Marcus Mbow (66-50-76-67), Wyatt Milum (0-0-90-0), Miles Frazier (0-0-0-100)

DL: Shemar Turner (56-0-55-74), Omarr Norman-Lott (78-0-61-62), CJ West (0-0-69), Joshua Farmer (88-43-79-0), Jordan Phillips (73-0-80-0), Jamaree Caldwell (0-0-0-73), Jared Ivey (0-0-59-55), Vernon Broughton (0-0-78-0)

Edge: Bradyn Swinson (0-0-47-70), Ashton Gillete (71-0-0-63), Elijah Roberts (0-0-82-0)

CB: Jacob Parrish (86-0-0-42), Dorian Strong, Quincy Riley (77-0-0-0), Cobee Bryant (0-0-0-89)

S: Lathan Ransom (0-0-94-91), Billy Bowman Jr (0-0-0-95)

The Number beside each name:

• Dane Brugler’s Big Board 100 (Feb 11th) – no update since combine
• Daniel Jeremiah Top 50 (Mar 6th)
• PFF Big Board Top 100 (Mar 21st)
• 33rd Team Top 100 (Mar 6th)

The only consensus players are Elijah Arroyo and Marcus Mbow. Though that comes with a big caveat because Jeremiah only has a top 50 right now.

Arroyo has prototypical size for a TE (6-5, 250lbs, 33” Arms, 10” Hands). He has soft hands and is a decent route runner. He was used more as flex TE, big slot in college. And thus, his blocking is a bit lacking if placed on the line of scrimmage at this point in his career. His big weakness is that he barely played in 22 and 23 due to ACL injury and thus has big medical concerns. For a team that likes to run 12 and 13 personnel he may not be a bad selection and he is considered a 2nd round pick in value.

Mbow has ok size for a tackle but is alittle light for the position (6-4, 303lbs, 32” Arms, 10 ½” hands). He projects in the NFL as a guard, and at that he could be a year one starter that could get to pro-bowl level, maybe even All-Pro level. Has that kind of talent and drive. He moves exceptionally well for a man his size.

So the question is, should we take a player who has a high rating who dropped, players always do, or should they take another position of greater need, QB perhaps. I like to take the talent.

What do you think?

Sampson or Milroe for me. Assuming you took DT in Rd 1.

 

[Peat]

The only consensus players are Elijah Arroyo and Marcus Mbow. Though that comes with a big caveat because Jeremiah only has a top 50 right now.

Arroyo has prototypical size for a TE (6-5, 250lbs, 33” Arms, 10” Hands). He has soft hands and is a decent route runner. He was used more as flex TE, big slot in college. And thus, his blocking is a bit lacking if placed on the line of scrimmage at this point in his career. His big weakness is that he barely played in 22 and 23 due to ACL injury and thus has big medical concerns. For a team that likes to run 12 and 13 personnel he may not be a bad selection and he is considered a 2nd round pick in value.

Mbow has ok size for a tackle but is alittle light for the position (6-4, 303lbs, 32” Arms, 10 ½” hands). He projects in the NFL as a guard, and at that he could be a year one starter that could get to pro-bowl level, maybe even All-Pro level. Has that kind of talent and drive. He moves exceptionally well for a man his size.

So the question is, should we take a player who has a high rating who dropped, players always do, or should they take another position of greater need, QB perhaps. I like to take the talent.

What do you think?

I would argue that Arroyo is oil to Texas for a team that has Muth and, while fond of multi-TE sets, needs some guys who can both catch and block to make that work.

Mbow interests me although I'm also kinda tired of adding young guys to a young unit with a coach who may or may not be any good.

Interesting to see such divergence of opinion on the RBs. Points to a deep class, as said. Thing is, is that depth still gonna be alive until the 4th round, or is a run about to happen?

Few near consensus DL if you fancy a double dip.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Sampson or Milroe for me. Assuming you took DT in Rd 1.

We took Harmon in the first.

 

[xlm34]

Ok, we are getting to close to our pick in the HFBoards NFL mock draft.

Potential at Pick 83:

QB: Tyler Shough (59-0-0-91), Jalen Milroe (61-0-99-0), Will Howard (84-0-0-0), Quinn Ewers(0-0-0-0)

RB: Dylan Sampson (80-0-63-88), Jordan James (62-0-0-0), RJ Harvey (95-0-85-0), DJ Giddens(0-0-86-0), Devin Neal (0-0-96-0), Brayshul Tuten (0-0-0-76)

TE: Elijah Arroyo (39-45-57-51), Gunnar Helm (64-0-0-93), Terrance Ferguson (98-0-0-0)

WR: Jack Bech (74-0-38-52), Xavier Restrepo (0-0-54-69), Jaylin Noel (72-0-86-61), Jalen Royals (58-0-89-94), Savion Williams (0-0-93-97), Tai Felton (0-0-0-99)

OT: Cameron Williams (63-0-92-84), Charles Grant (0-0-97-86), Anthony Belton (0-0-98-72), Chase Lundt (0-0-0-85)

G: Marcus Mbow (66-50-76-67), Wyatt Milum (0-0-90-0), Miles Frazier (0-0-0-100)

DL: Shemar Turner (56-0-55-74), Omarr Norman-Lott (78-0-61-62), CJ West (0-0-69), Joshua Farmer (88-43-79-0), Jordan Phillips (73-0-80-0), Jamaree Caldwell (0-0-0-73), Jared Ivey (0-0-59-55), Vernon Broughton (0-0-78-0)

Edge: Bradyn Swinson (0-0-47-70), Ashton Gillete (71-0-0-63), Elijah Roberts (0-0-82-0)

CB: Jacob Parrish (86-0-0-42), Dorian Strong, Quincy Riley (77-0-0-0), Cobee Bryant (0-0-0-89)

S: Lathan Ransom (0-0-94-91), Billy Bowman Jr (0-0-0-95)

The Number beside each name:

• Dane Brugler’s Big Board 100 (Feb 11th) – no update since combine
• Daniel Jeremiah Top 50 (Mar 6th)
• PFF Big Board Top 100 (Mar 21st)
• 33rd Team Top 100 (Mar 6th)

The only consensus players are Elijah Arroyo and Marcus Mbow. Though that comes with a big caveat because Jeremiah only has a top 50 right now.

Arroyo has prototypical size for a TE (6-5, 250lbs, 33” Arms, 10” Hands). He has soft hands and is a decent route runner. He was used more as flex TE, big slot in college. And thus, his blocking is a bit lacking if placed on the line of scrimmage at this point in his career. His big weakness is that he barely played in 22 and 23 due to ACL injury and thus has big medical concerns. For a team that likes to run 12 and 13 personnel he may not be a bad selection and he is considered a 2nd round pick in value.

Mbow has ok size for a tackle but is alittle light for the position (6-4, 303lbs, 32” Arms, 10 ½” hands). He projects in the NFL as a guard, and at that he could be a year one starter that could get to pro-bowl level, maybe even All-Pro level. Has that kind of talent and drive. He moves exceptionally well for a man his size.

So the question is, should we take a player who has a high rating who dropped, players always do, or should they take another position of greater need, QB perhaps. I like to take the talent.

What do you think?

Steelers i think would take Milroe. I’d probably go Bech or Parrish.

I don’t necessarily love a 3rd round RB at this point.

 

[The Old Master]

Steelers i think would take Milroe. I’d probably go Bech or Parrish.

I don’t necessarily love a 3rd round RB at this point.

if your going to spend a high pick on one next year, it does seem a little dumb.